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Thread: Costco...open carry prohibited

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    Costco...open carry prohibited

    COSTCO, Livonia, Michigan

    Can Costco manager, prohibit - tell a customer to cover his weapon in the store...with NO warning signs, or notification of prohibition of Open Carry ????

    Can any private business prohibit Open Carry...with NO signs or warning...???

    Can store manager ask for you to cover weapon, with no posted warnings, causing a concealed weapon
    situation... David
    Last edited by DAVIDS447; 03-11-2013 at 04:17 PM. Reason: CHOPPED UP SENTENCES

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVIDS447 View Post
    COSTCO, Livonia, Michigan

    Can Costco manager, prohibit - tell a customer to cover his weapon in the store...with NO warning signs, or notification of prohibition of Open Carry ????

    Can any private business prohibit Open Carry...with NO signs or warning...???

    Can store manager ask for you to cover weapon, with no posted warnings, causing a concealed weapon
    situation... David
    It is first and foremost private property - they can exclude you for wearing a red shirt. They cannot force you to break the law (CC if you do not have a permit) , but you are left with the options of complying, putting it in your vehicle, or leaving.

    No guns signs do have the force of law in Michigan, but are NOT mandatory prior to asking you to conform.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    As I understand the agreement that is signed when you join states the no gun policy. If the person does not have a cpl he cannot cover it up even with the managers "permission" The manager can ask you to leave whether or not it is posted.




    Quote Originally Posted by DAVIDS447 View Post
    COSTCO, Livonia, Michigan

    Can Costco manager, prohibit - tell a customer to cover his weapon in the store...with NO warning signs, or notification of prohibition of Open Carry ????

    Can any private business prohibit Open Carry...with NO signs or warning...???

    Can store manager ask for you to cover weapon, with no posted warnings, causing a concealed weapon
    situation... David
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    In Michigan I do not think signs have power of law, some will be by to clarify that soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It is first and foremost private property - they can exclude you for wearing a red shirt. They cannot force you to break the law (CC if you do not have a permit) , but you are left with the options of complying, putting it in your vehicle, or leaving.

    No guns signs do have the force of law in Michigan, but are NOT mandatory prior to asking you to conform.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    In Michigan I do not think signs have power of law, some will be by to clarify that soon
    It's not a matter of signs. COSTCO is a "membership" store - you signed a contract agreeing to abide by their rules. They can terminate your membership if you do not abide by the rules. The contract will tell you if you get any portion of your membership fee back.

    Just a quick reminder, only the government can infringe on your rights. Private property owners may violate certain civil rights laws in certain circumstances, but IIRC RKBA is not yet in that category.

    This discussion has been held on OCDO before. Use the Advanced Search feature to help find the threads.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Costco...open carry prohibited

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    In Michigan I do not think signs have power of law, some will be by to clarify that soon
    Signs aren't codified into law....BUT

    If they can prove you saw the sign (ex: they have you on video clearly pointing at it and laughing in your way in) it could be used by the prosecutor as an element in proving a trespass case.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    In Michigan I do not think signs have power of law, some will be by to clarify that soon
    Upon review, I do see that there is some disagreement on that issue/question - been discussed on OCDO before.

    Nevertheless, one can be directed to not carry, cover, or leave at the discretion of a representative of the store. Their internal policy may say otherwise, but that is a matter best addressed by requesting the store manager or contacting him/her after the fact.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Old news, been hashed over.

    Lesson learned? Read the agreement BEFORE you sign away your rights.

    Cancel your membership, and go to Sam's Club.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    To the best of my knowledge, most Costco stores have a "No Guns at all" type policy. Meaning it doesn't matter if it's concealed or not, they don't want their patrons to be able to defend themselves in the event of a violent encounter in their store. They'd rather have a store full of sheep, then have even one sheep dog in the bunch.

    As for any signs, most of what I've seen for "no guns" signs seem to be purposely made small enough that most won't notice. I have no idea why. That's just the way it is. I just happened to notice one at a Costco, because I was looking to see if they had a sign. When I found it, I went into the store, to the service desk, and dropped off a "No Guns=No $$" card, and left.
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 03-11-2013 at 05:16 PM.
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Old news, been hashed over.

    Lesson learned? Read the agreement BEFORE you sign away your rights.

    Cancel your membership, and go to Sam's Club.
    ^^^ THIS

    Costco is much closer to our family than Sam's- but we go to Sam's because of their "follow state law" approach. Just as we go to starbuck's vs another coffee house nearby. They support my rights, I'll give them the privilege of my business. Somewhere here we used to have a thread on corporate policy (by venator I think). Anyone left here who remembers that thread? It may have saved the OP some money & frustration?
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    They are pretty careful about not posting no guns signs in states where OC is rarer, because I don't think they want to scare away customers, aside from not liking OCing. This at least has to be my assumption, because every one I ever went to in Arizona was posted, whereas I've never seen or heard of one here being posted.

    There are a few things I consider the place good for, and I am especially fond of how they treat their employees, but I agree with others on avoiding it. I haven't been to one in quite some time.
    Last edited by Michigander; 03-11-2013 at 10:38 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    As I understand the agreement that is signed when you join states the no gun policy. If the person does not have a cpl he cannot cover it up even with the managers "permission" The manager can ask you to leave whether or not it is posted.
    no it does not have that in the agreement. i recently signed up for a costco membership open carrying and have open carried many times at the madison heights. i thoroughly reviewed the membership application and asked the rep if their were any other rules i needed to be aware of. i also audio recorded her saying everything was in the application. there are no signs at the entrance either.
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 03-11-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    To the best of my knowledge, most Costco stores have a "No Guns at all" type policy. Meaning it doesn't matter if it's concealed or not, they don't want their patrons to be able to defend themselves in the event of a violent encounter in their store. They'd rather have a store full of sheep, then have even one sheep dog in the bunch.

    As for any signs, most of what I've seen for "no guns" signs seem to be purposely made small enough that most won't notice. I have no idea why. That's just the way it is. I just happened to notice one at a Costco, because I was looking to see if they had a sign. When I found it, I went into the store, to the service desk, and dropped off a "No Guns=No $$" card, and left.
    they used to have the no firearms rule posted on their website, but that link went dead about 6 months ago.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    they used to have the no firearms rule posted on their website, but that link went dead about 6 months ago.
    Could it be they have come over to the light side? Sure hope so it would save me a good 15 miles each way.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 03-11-2013 at 08:59 PM.
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Costco...open carry prohibited

    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    no it does not have that in the agreement. i recently signed up for a costco membership open carrying and have open carried many times at the madison heights. i thoroughly reviewed the membership application and asked the rep if their were any other rules i needed to be aware of. i also audio recorded her saying everything was in the application. there are no signs at the entrance either.
    I have OCd a few times at the one near me without incident. The OP can cancel his membership; I've heard they are good about refunding your membership fee.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVIDS447 View Post
    Can Costco manager, prohibit - tell a customer to cover his weapon in the store...with NO warning signs, or notification of prohibition of Open Carry ????
    Can any private business prohibit Open Carry...with NO signs or warning...???
    Can store manager ask for you to cover weapon, with no posted warnings, causing a concealed weapon
    situation.
    Yes, yes, and yes. If you do not have a CPL, do not conceal . . . leave immediately. Because you may not legally conceal outside of your own property without a CPL. Period. There's legally no such thing as "permission" to CC on others' property.

    That being said, several of us have had no issue OC'ing in Costco. Myself included:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1583667
    Last edited by DanM; 03-12-2013 at 02:31 AM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Does Costco sell alcohol?

    If they do they OP would need to have the CPL to be shopping there anyway.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Costco general rules are on pages 14 & 15. http://content.costco.com/Images/Con...eDirectory.pdf

    "No Guns" is not mentioned there, but there are policies you agree to abide by - go ask the store to show you all the policies you are under obligation to abide by.

    Sure would save a lot of electrons being killed over speculation and guessing, woudn't it?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Does Costco sell alcohol?

    If they do they OP would need to have the CPL to be shopping there anyway.

    Bronson
    yes they do
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Costco general rules are on pages 14 & 15. http://content.costco.com/Images/Con...eDirectory.pdf

    "No Guns" is not mentioned there, but there are policies you agree to abide by - go ask the store to show you all the policies you are under obligation to abide by.

    Sure would save a lot of electrons being killed over speculation and guessing, woudn't it?

    stay safe.
    yes, this is the agreement i reviewed when i purchased the membership. and at that time i asked if there were any other rules or regulations and was told "no."
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    I support Sams Club. Over the years I've heard people having random issues with Costco. My advice to everyone is join the pro-gun buyers club company Walmart is far superior.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Costco...open carry prohibited

    Quote Originally Posted by mikestilly View Post
    I support Sams Club. Over the years I've heard people having random issues with Costco. My advice to everyone is join the pro-gun buyers club company Walmart is far superior.
    Cosidering the massive amounts of tin foil you go through making hats.... Wal-Mart it is then...

    Just kidding.
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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Wal-Mart it is then
    http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns....tnership.shtml

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Costco...open carry prohibited

    You left out the just kidding part of my post. There are many, many corporations that are not the pillar of 2A rights. The question now becomes - how to sway them to become one?
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    There are many, many corporations that are not the pillar of 2A rights. The question now becomes - how to sway them to become one?
    I've been a managerial employee of business corporations since 1996. Business corporations are about focusing on what they are in business for, and generating revenue doing their business to as much of an extent over their expenses as possible (i.e., maximizing profit). And that is all. And that's as it should be.

    How do you make corporations support 2A? By them seeing that support of 2A has a demonstrable positive effect on their profit, or lack of support of 2A is demonstrably negative to their profit.

    That is all there is to it, because that is all business corporations are about. Trust me, I know (at least from the perspective of well-run, successful corporations).
    Last edited by DanM; 03-13-2013 at 11:05 PM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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