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Thread: Rockford Supt weapons would make schools more dangerous

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Rockford Supt weapons would make schools more dangerous

    Rockford superintendent explains why concealed weapons would make schools more dangerous

    http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapi..._river_default
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-12-2013 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Fixed title to fit
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Rockford superintendent explains why concealed weapons would make schools more dangerous

    http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapi..._river_default
    I don't even have to read it. Let me guess: Teachers will kill "bad" kids, "bad kids" will beat down teacher(s) and kill them. All the same crap meant to fear monger... What this is really about is control plain and simple. The institution / authorities never want others to be self sufficient, well because what would happen to their jobs of telling the little people what to do?
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Snip from story:

    I was close but this guy is slicker than most anti's He's got his priorities straight as he never even mentions the "children".

    Snip
    What makes concealed weapons in a school so dangerous is the possibility of a police officer responding to a report of a school shooter first encountering an armed teacher, he said.

    “You have the security personnel who’s trying to deal with that situation, he or she may not even know who the shooter really is,” Shibler said. “By the time they figure it out they could be killed.”
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    “You have the security personnel who’s trying to deal with that situation, he or she may not even know who the shooter really is,” Shibler said. “By the time they figure it out they could be killed.”[/I]
    A faint grab at making a point, but certainly nothing that training protocol couldn't address.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Rockford superintendent weapons would make schools more danger

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Snip from story:

    I was close but this guy is slicker than most anti's He's got his priorities straight as he never even mentions the "children".

    Snip
    What makes concealed weapons in a school so dangerous is the possibility of a police officer responding to a report of a school shooter first encountering an armed teacher, he said.

    “You have the security personnel who’s trying to deal with that situation, he or she may not even know who the shooter really is,” Shibler said. “By the time they figure it out they could be killed.”
    Since this has happened to CPL holders countless times already, I think his fear is well founded. (Just imagine my post above is written in purple, denoting sarcasm. Tapatalk doesn't have, as far as I know, a method of changing text color)
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Since this has happened to CPL holders countless times already, I think his fear is well founded. (Just imagine my post above is written in purple, denoting sarcasm. Tapatalk doesn't have, as far as I know, a method of changing text color)
    Happy to help.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Please consider this as a reason there is so much resistance to teachers having guns in school...

    The elitist leftists know and understand that the "Zero Tolerance" propaganda policy that is used to dominate, intimidate, and shame, kids who do or say anything... anything at all... that could be considered to have even the most remote connection to a dastardly GUN! cannot continue to be used to indoctrinate our kids to fear guns and to be trained to avoid anything and everything to do with guns while ingraining a deep aversion to guns by molding their minds to have an anti gun perspective and belief starting at pre school all the way up to graduation.....

    ....because....

    the "Zero Tolerance" propaganda policy will not be effective if teachers, the role model kids spend 8 or more hours with everyday, start carrying guns in school.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    My family and I will be moving into the greater Rockford area this summer. Not sure just yet whether or not we'll be enrolling our daughter in the Rockford (or a neighboring) school district but now I'm very tempted to take a good look at real estate in that area.

    Depending on how the CADL-case shakes out, I'd be quite happy peacefully OCing there (with CPL of course).

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Nailed it again - Bikenut! DING, DING, DING! We have a winner!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Please consider this as a reason there is so much resistance to teachers having guns in school...

    The elitist leftists know and understand that the "Zero Tolerance" propaganda policy that is used to dominate, intimidate, and shame, kids who do or say anything... anything at all... that could be considered to have even the most remote connection to a dastardly GUN! cannot continue to be used to indoctrinate our kids to fear guns and to be trained to avoid anything and everything to do with guns while ingraining a deep aversion to guns by molding their minds to have an anti gun perspective and belief starting at pre school all the way up to graduation.....

    ....because....

    the "Zero Tolerance" propaganda policy will not be effective if teachers, the role model kids spend 8 or more hours with everyday, start carrying guns in school.
    Quoted for the pure truth of it! Truth always shines!
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    for a city of under 6000 his income of $290,000 seems a bit high.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  11. #11
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    "State law enforcement, county law enforcement, local law enforcement -- every one of them have told me don't ever allow concealed weapons into the schools," Shibler said. "These are the professionals. They're the people you have to rely on, who know what the dangers are."
    Really?????

    Please, which officers are telling you that?

    Doesn't Michigan law already allow CPL holders to open carry in a school?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Rockford Supt weapons would make schools more dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Really?????

    Please, which officers are telling you that?

    Doesn't Michigan law already allow CPL holders to open carry in a school?
    The simple answer is "Yes".
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Rockford Supt weapons would make schools more dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    for a city of under 6000 his income of $290,000 seems a bit high.
    Nearly $50 ($48.33) per every man, woman & child.... it's good to be the king.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    for a city of under 6000 his income of $290,000 seems a bit high.
    You are referring to the population of the City of Rockford, not the population of the actual school district. The population of the area covered by the school district is around 40,000 (39,375).
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Nearly $50 ($48.33) per every man, woman & child.... it's good to be the king.

    290,445 (income)/39,375 (population) = 7.37638095238 (see post above)

    So, instead of "Nearly $50 ($48.33) per every man, woman & child" the amount is actually $7.38 for every man, woman, and child...

    (With all of the concessions other employees have made I still think he makes a large amount of money, though)
    Last edited by DrTodd; 03-13-2013 at 10:00 AM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Please consider this as a reason there is so much resistance to teachers having guns in school...

    The elitist leftists know and understand that the "Zero Tolerance" propaganda policy that is used to dominate, intimidate, and shame, kids who do or say anything... anything at all... that could be considered to have even the most remote connection to a dastardly GUN! cannot continue to be used to indoctrinate our kids to fear guns and to be trained to avoid anything and everything to do with guns while ingraining a deep aversion to guns by molding their minds to have an anti gun perspective and belief starting at pre school all the way up to graduation.....

    ....because....

    the "Zero Tolerance" propaganda policy will not be effective if teachers, the role model kids spend 8 or more hours with everyday, start carrying guns in school.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Really?????

    Please, which officers are telling you that?

    Doesn't Michigan law already allow CPL holders to open carry in a school?
    A better question is "what law supports their opinion" and what statistics do they have to form their opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    290,445 (income)/39,375 (population) = 7.37638095238 (see post above)

    So, instead of "Nearly $50 ($48.33) per every man, woman & child" the amount is actually $7.38 for every man, woman, and child...

    (With all of the concessions other employees have made I still think he makes a large amount of money, though)
    Not every M-W-C....only kids. Cuz he ain't in charge of the M-W component of the school district, he just manages their tax dollars.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    290,445 (income)/39,375 8,048 (population) = 7.37638095238 $36.09.

    http://www.education.com/schoolfinde...hool-district/
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    The average teacher salary in Rockford Public Schools is $47,172.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  20. #20
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Rockford Supt weapons would make schools more dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    290,445 (income)/39,375 (population) = 7.37638095238 (see post above)

    So, instead of "Nearly $50 ($48.33) per every man, woman & child" the amount is actually $7.38 for every man, woman, and child...

    (With all of the concessions other employees have made I still think he makes a large amount of money, though)
    Geeesh - raggs said 6000 pop. People - I took his numbers to be correct. He was speaking directly to the town population & not the "district's"... but thanks for setting us straight on district population. A salary of $290,000 is very good money for a very small district compared to many others in MI.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    If I wanted to be a smart*ss, I'd print the above image on a T-shirt and give it to my 6-year-old daughter to wear to school but of course that would result in her suspension, go figure!
    Last edited by OC4me; 03-14-2013 at 12:03 AM.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Geeesh - raggs said 6000 pop. People - I took his numbers to be correct. He was speaking directly to the town population & not the "district's"... but thanks for setting us straight on district population. A salary of $290,000 is very good money for a very small district compared to many others in MI.
    $290,000 is a great salary for a job that would command $150,000 in the private sector....

    If he had to get a REAL job, he'd be in for sticker shock. Clowns don't make that much.

    Your tax dollars at work...
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    290,445 (income)/39,375 8,048 (population) = 7.37638095238 $36.09.

    http://www.education.com/schoolfinde...hool-district/

    Although I think that Raggs, FreeInAZ, and I referring to the population (the # of people) who live within the school district boundaries as opposed to the # of students is valid, I do see your point.

    BTW: Citation for my data: http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sdds/fram...=census&y=2010

    Under "data tables", select "Census 2010", select "School District" under "Geography", then "MI", then "Rockford Public Schools"
    Last edited by DrTodd; 03-14-2013 at 12:00 AM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Although I think that Raggs, FreeInAZ, and I referring to the population (the # of people) who live within the school district boundaries as opposed to the # of students is valid, I do see your point.

    BTW: Citation for my data: http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sdds/fram...=census&y=2010

    Under "data tables", select "Census 2010", select "School District" under "Geography", then "MI", then "Rockford Public Schools"
    I am not disputing your numbers. Kids don't pay in to the system that supports (provides) their education. So, your tax dollars are "technically" divided up to support X number of students......if it were only that simple.

    Fun math fact:

    One bureaucrat gets paid what six actual teachers get paid. Unfortunately the bureaucrat is teaching your kid far more than any teacher via his personal anti-liberty biases and fear of litigation. Evidence the truth of my words with the suspension of a little kid for a deadly pop-tart.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  25. #25
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ...Evidence the truth of my words with the suspension of a little kid for a deadly pop-tart.
    yeah... I heard about that.

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