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Thread: These numbers sounds over inflated

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    These numbers sounds over inflated


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    Most likely, they are counting instances where folks innocently try to do something that is against a ridiculously complicated law. For example, at the Exchange, all the time, we get customers who have Exchange privileges trying to help a buddy get the kind of good deal that is available at the Exchange. They aren't trying to break the law. However, when we discover that a purchase is really for someone without the privilege, we stop the transaction as a potential straw purchase. No one was trying to obtain a firearm that he cannot legally possess, yet the transaction would technically be a straw purchase. Such an attempt would probably be counted.

    They probably also count when someone says, "Here, use my credit card," also a technical straw purchase. Or, how about when a customer comes in from Indiana. We spend twenty minutes with him selecting a handgun. Then when we ask for an Ohio DL, he tells us he lives in Indiana. We can't sell him a handgun (stupid law), but the lefties would probably count that attempt too.

    It ain't always someone trying to break the law. In my experience, the only sales I have had to stop were sales where the buyer simply did not know the intricacies of the law. But that is what these laws do. They trap the well-meaning, but ignorant, law-abiding citizen. The crooks will just do what they will, the law be damned.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Most likely, they are counting instances where folks innocently try to do something that is against a ridiculously complicated law. For example, at the Exchange, all the time, we get customers who have Exchange privileges trying to help a buddy get the kind of good deal that is available at the Exchange.
    I haven't seen any "good deals" on firearms at the Base Exchange. They seem to be right at retail, if not a bit higher. Pax...
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    We price match and I have done ONE since I have been here. ONE. Plus the customers save the sales tax. That means our customers save 6.5% minimum, 10% usually, and up to 25%. From Thanksgiving to Christmas, we had each week different calibers or manufacturers on sale for 10% off, bringing savings up to 1/3 off on some firearms. Also, one week, in addition to the 10% off, we were giving $200 gift cards for total firearms purchases over $1000. Then, when someone used a STAR card for the first time, the bill included yet another 10% discount.

    So, let's run a little scenario: A customer buys a high-end gun for $1600 (we have models ranging from a $130 HiPoint up to $4000+ for some high-end AR15s). It is on sale for 10% off, $1440. He uses a virgin STAR card, saving another $144 when the bill comes in, $1296. We give him a $200 gift card on the spot, $1096. Now, had he purchased the firearm from another store, he would have paid the full $1600 plus 6.5% sales tax, $104, for a total of $1704. He saved $608 or over 1/3 of the price.

    That example assumes that our price was the same as downtown. We almost always are significantly lower. And, we price-match, so he would have saved even more. Remember, out of hundreds of sales, I've price-matched ONCE, and it was like $30 because the local retailer had the gun on sale.

    Folks, don't take my word or his for the prices. We encourage comparison shopping, because the customer will then buy from us. So, if you have Exchange privileges, check us out. Remember though, the biggest problem is going to be federal law: You must buy from an Exchange in the State in which you live. Active duty living in a State other than their permanent duty station may purchase in either State.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    I haven't seen any "good deals" on firearms at the Base Exchange. They seem to be right at retail, if not a bit higher. Pax...
    This is going to depend on what local stores are charging. The BX charges a flat rate mark-up on the price from the dealer (excluding sales), so the price only goes up/down if their distributer (RSRgroup is their primary one, but they have another) changes their price. I've gotten multiple guns at under MSRP because of this. It also means that while everyone else is increasing the cost of various "tactical" guns, magazines, etc, (gun shows are charging $30-40+ for a 30rd mag) the BX charges the same price as before (again, only adjusting their prices if their distributor changes their price). Personally I got an MSAR AUG for just over 1800 when everyone else wanted 2000-3000 for the same gun back in 2011, and I wish I would have known about the BX selling guns when I bought my XDm40 as I would have saved $50-150 (I made a rookie mistake and bought from a place that is known for excessively raising prices, but I didn't know that when I bought); oh and these prices are before taxes and any other fees (the BX doesn't charge for a NICS check, not sure if other places do).

    Now if your local places are able to get the guns used or at a better rate than the BX it is possible for it to be a better deal (for example my BX quit carrying the green-tipped 5.56 that comes in the 420rd ammo can because Academy was selling it so cheap that the BX was LOSING money when they price matched), but I've found it hard to even meet, much less beat, their prices on new guns here in Oklahoma.
    Last edited by Aknazer; 03-13-2013 at 11:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    ...Folks, don't take my word or his for the prices. We encourage comparison shopping, because the customer will then buy from us. So, if you have Exchange privileges, check us out. Remember though, the biggest problem is going to be federal law: You must buy from an Exchange in the State in which you live. Active duty living in a State other than their permanent duty station may purchase in either State.
    If you have a drivers license that is from a different state than the one you're currently living in (pretty common for military people) then they are likely going to ask for your orders to show that you are stationed in that state. I don't remember if this applies to handguns only or to all weapons though, but I'm sure Eye or the firearms people at your local BX can let you know.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    We price match and I have done ONE since I have been here. ONE. Plus the customers save the sales tax. That means our customers save 6.5% minimum, 10% usually, and up to 25%. From Thanksgiving to Christmas, we had each week different calibers or manufacturers on sale for 10% off, bringing savings up to 1/3 off on some firearms. Also, one week, in addition to the 10% off, we were giving $200 gift cards for total firearms purchases over $1000. Then, when someone used a STAR card for the first time, the bill included yet another 10% discount.

    So, let's run a little scenario: A customer buys a high-end gun for $1600 (we have models ranging from a $130 HiPoint up to $4000+ for some high-end AR15s). It is on sale for 10% off, $1440. He uses a virgin STAR card, saving another $144 when the bill comes in, $1296. We give him a $200 gift card on the spot, $1096. Now, had he purchased the firearm from another store, he would have paid the full $1600 plus 6.5% sales tax, $104, for a total of $1704. He saved $608 or over 1/3 of the price.

    That example assumes that our price was the same as downtown. We almost always are significantly lower. And, we price-match, so he would have saved even more. Remember, out of hundreds of sales, I've price-matched ONCE, and it was like $30 because the local retailer had the gun on sale.

    Folks, don't take my word or his for the prices. We encourage comparison shopping, because the customer will then buy from us. So, if you have Exchange privileges, check us out. Remember though, the biggest problem is going to be federal law: You must buy from an Exchange in the State in which you live. Active duty living in a State other than their permanent duty station may purchase in either State.
    I'll give you the sales tax savings (in states that have a sales tax - not all do). I was talking about everyday prices, not prices of "on sale" items, closeouts, scratch-n-dents, the use of the STAR card (not all eligible people have one of those), the sacrifice of Virgins, or any other reason for markdowns. And, I'm not questioning the accuracy of your statement as it applies to a specific BX. My experience locally is that I can save the sales tax (which can be $ub$tantial), and that's about it. The confusion arises over my failure to indicate that I was talking about "sticker prices", which really aren't that different... at least in my area.

    Besides, why would I want to buy a firearm directly from an agency of the government? I cannot be convinced that, regardless of "administrative safeguards", any firearm purchased from a government agency is not immediately "registered" (on some level) with several other agencies. The administration wants your physician to narc on you if you own guns! A military agency is much more likely to do so. Just my 2 worth. Pax...
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    Must be nice to be in an area where sticker prices aren't that different. Here they're usually 10-20% higher off-base compared to the BX (and I've seen as high as 50% on some things like a Mosin Nagant). And that was before the Decemeber panic.

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    These numbers sounds over inflated

    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    If you have a drivers license that is from a different state than the one you're currently living in (pretty common for military people) then they are likely going to ask for your orders to show that you are stationed in that state. I don't remember if this applies to handguns only or to all weapons though, but I'm sure Eye or the firearms people at your local BX can let you know.
    Actually, for military members, a DL from out of State with their current in-State residence address works. We can also take a combination of Military ID/PCS orders for active duty members (not for dependents).


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    These numbers sounds over inflated

    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    ...
    Whatever.

    Folks, if you have Exchange privileges, check out our regular prices. Compare them to those off-base. Don't take my word, this poster's word, or the word of yet another poster in this thread who has reported big savings. Check it out for yourself. Moving on.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Must be nice to be in an area where sticker prices aren't that different. Here they're usually 10-20% higher off-base compared to the BX (and I've seen as high as 50% on some things like a Mosin Nagant). And that was before the Decemeber panic.
    I don't know how "nice" it is, since I consider most prices to be too high no matter where we shop these days. What used to be low-end "turn-key" ARs & AKs (as opposed to kits), in 5.56 have jumped about 25-30% since December (if you can even find one). Some AR uppers are now selling for as much ($800) as a complete, ready-to-rock, low-end AR did last year.

    I've never seen surplus rifles in our BX, but on the local civilian market the surplus Moisin-Nagant 91/30 is selling for an average of $140, and the "sniper" version (w/scope) for $540 (both rounded up by 1). Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-13-2013 at 06:54 PM.
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    The Exchange is prohibited from selling surplus or used firearms. If that is what you are in the market for, you will have to go elsewhere. We sell factory-fresh, NIB complete firearms.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The Exchange is prohibited from selling surplus or used firearms. If that is what you are in the market for, you will have to go elsewhere. We sell factory-fresh, NIB complete firearms.
    I have no use for surplus firearms, and I'm very picky about used ones. My reply was to Aknzer, who mentioned the increase in price of the Mosin-Nagant in his most recent post. Pax...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffie View Post
    That is less than 8 attempts per FFL per year, or barely more than 1 every two months. Given that the wording of the survey likely caused some FFL's to over report these numbers, it sounds about right to me.
    591 surveys returned, 4305 "attempted illegal purchases", 4305/591 = ~7.3 attempts per dealer who responded.

    Also, there were at least 17,000,000 guns sold at retail in the US last year. If there were (generously) 40,000 attempts to make illegal purchases that would amount to less than 1/4th of 1 percent (~0.23%) of all actual sales. The number of people DENIED purchase by the NICS system last year was probably about 100,000, so more people were apparently denied than tried to game the system/talk their way into getting one. So this is really just a drop in the bucket.

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