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Thread: An extreme view from an anti-rights voice

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    An extreme view from an anti-rights voice

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    My brother & his family have entirely reasonable & fact-based views about firearms, even though they live in CA.
    Some of the people he's FaceBook 'friends' with, not so much.
    And of course, they don't listen to reason.
    I've posted citations from & links to probably 8-12 scientifically-done studies which disprove his opinions, and this guy I quote below dismisses them as "selected references collected by an amateur". (But of course, he can't come up with ANY studies supporting his opinions... because they don't exist.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth O'Brien, Lehigh U
    I consider allowing concealed and open carry in public places the worst example of immature anti-social society-poisoning potential violence our culture owns.
    Someone with some common sense asked him:
    You literally believe that a trained, licensed concealed-carry citizen is a worse example of "immature anti-social society-poisoning potential violence" than a gang-banger whose head is full of violent images from movies and video games?
    And Ken's reply was:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth O'Brien, Lehigh U
    Yes, of course. That is exactly my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth O'Brien, Lehigh U
    There is nothing simple about turning over justice, security and punishment to the instantaneous assessment/whim of each and every private individual.
    And Ken even blames lawfully-armed citizens and the "we're not gonna take this any more" mentality* for causing crime! He says that LACs are worse for society than violent predators!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth O'Brien, Lehigh U
    I believe that large numbers of 'good' people coming to believe it is a normal part of the culture for them to take on the job of instant judge jury and executioner everywhere in public places (while also internalizing the extended 'urban' hating mindset implicitly behind that) has much much worse and wider implications for our society than the subset acute violence involving the most pathological problems this wider and worse example of immature anti-social society-poisoning mindset helped create
    * Or perhaps, as Kathy Jackson puts it, "not me, not mine, not today".

    I'm almost afraid to ask him what he means by "the extended 'urban' hating mindset"... Think maybe he's being racist there?
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-12-2013 at 01:10 AM.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    sounds like Ken just wants to be a victim at best, a Tory at worst
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    With grammar like that, Mr. O'Brien's parents need to demand a refund from Lehigh U.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    sounds like Ken just wants to be a victim at best, a Tory at worst
    He is free to choose to be a victim. I don't care.

    However, he is asking for the taking of our Right, thereby choosing victimhood for us too. That is unacceptable.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    He is free to choose to be a victim. I don't care.

    However, he is asking for the taking of our Right, thereby choosing victimhood for us too. That is unacceptable.
    Tell them that, then throw in, "NO, I REFUSE."

    It literally drives them insane with rage.

    Those types have NEVER been told "no" in their lives. When they are, it almost invariably sends them into an infantile hissy fit. Almost as entertaining as a good episode of "Big Bang Theory"...
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    He is free to choose to be a victim. I don't care.

    However, he is asking for the taking of our Right, thereby choosing victimhood for us too. That is unacceptable.
    That is what infuriates me about sheeple like him.

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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    I wonder if Kenneth O'Brien has any problem with cops having the power of "judge, jury, and executioner" when facing deadly force. For some reason that I can't put my finger on, I doubt it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    It is prudent to dissuade oneself from generalizations.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    An extreme view from an anti-rights voice
    Any anti-rights view is an extreme one. Our civilization spent some 561 years from Magna Carta to the Bill of Rigthts aquiring the very few rights recognized at law--anybody who wants to go backward from that is a radical.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    would this be the Kenneth O'Brien that lives in Portland, Maine?? using a photo of Tillie Shaeffer (NY Giant) as his profile pic, and Obama with a bunch of young women as his cover photo?
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.” ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kenneth O'Brien, Lehigh U
    There is nothing simple about turning over justice, security and punishment to the instantaneous assessment/whim of each and every private individual.



    I would like to know when has this happened recently? I guess you could make the argument that there were vigilantes in the old west, but the only real justice and punishment administered outside the court system these days is by criminals who can't get legal help to right wrongs, LAC's that carry do so for self defence, not to be judge, jury, and executioner.

    I sincerely pray that I am never in a situation where I have to use my pistol, but if I need it more prayer won't help as much as being prepared.

    One thing I would like to say to anti gun people, if you were in Sandy Hook, what would you have done? Hid under the desk with the kids?

    I and the group you like to call "gun nuts" would have gone 2 to the chest and one to the head.

    Which seems to be a better answer to such an evil situation? If that means in your mind I am "turning over justice, security and punishment to the instantaneous assessment/whim of each and every private individual." than so be it.
    Last edited by ron73440; 03-14-2013 at 09:59 AM. Reason: clarity
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    Originally Posted by Kenneth O'Brien, Lehigh U
    There is nothing simple about turning over justice, security and punishment to the instantaneous assessment/whim of each and every private individual.



    I would like to know when has this happened recently? I guess you could make the argument that there were vigilantes in the old west, but the only real justice and punishment administered outside the court system these days is by criminals who can't get legal help to right wrongs, LAC's that carry do so for self defence, not to be judge, jury, and executioner.

    I sincerely pray that I am never in a situation where I have to use my pistol, but if I need it more prayer won't help as much as being prepared.

    One thing I would like to say to anti gun people, if you were in Sandy Hook, what would you have done? Hid under the desk with the kids?

    I and the group you like to call "gun nuts" would have gone 2 to the chest and one to the head.

    Which seems to be a better answer to such an evil situation? If that means in your mind I am "turning over justice, security and punishment to the instantaneous assessment/whim of each and every private individual." than so be it.
    Moreover, OBrien's comment is utterly strawman--to the point of a deliberate lie because justice, security, and punishment are not being turned over to the lawfully armed citizen. Any lawfully armed citizen who exceeds his authority to defend self and others is liable both civilly and criminally.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  14. #14
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    Originally Posted by Kenneth O'Brien, Lehigh U
    There is nothing simple about turning over justice, security and punishment to the instantaneous assessment/whim of each and every private individual.

    I would like to know when has this happened recently? I guess you could make the argument that there were vigilantes in the old west, but the only real justice and punishment administered outside the court system these days is by criminals who can't get legal help to right wrongs, LAC's that carry do so for self defense, not to be judge, jury, and executioner.

    I sincerely pray that I am never in a situation where I have to use my pistol, but if I need it more prayer won't help as much as being prepared.

    One thing I would like to say to anti gun people, if you were in Sandy Hook, what would you have done? Hid under the desk with the kids?

    I and the group you like to call "gun nuts" would have gone 2 to the chest and one to the head.

    Which seems to be a better answer to such an evil situation? If that means in your mind I am "turning over justice, security and punishment to the instantaneous assessment/whim of each and every private individual." than so be it.
    Turning over the security of those children at Sandy Hook to a lawfully armed citizen should have been the preferred option until LE arrived to assist in, and then assume those security duties.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Turning over the security of those children at Sandy Hook to a lawfully armed citizen should have been the preferred option until LE arrived to assist in, and then assume those security duties.
    Exactly. The real reason those children are dead is that we, as a nation, left them undefended--and advertised this fact to crazies looking for soft targets.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Locic dictates, Captain, that if Pro-Gunners were as violent as Anti-Guners say they are, there wouldn't be any Anti-Gunners left.
    [/Mr. Spock voice]

    While it has always puzzled me why someone would get up in the face of a person obviously wearing a gun on their hip and insult that person, their morals, their judgement, and tell outrageous lies about their behavior as well as the relationship between the gun-toter's parents, it seems said individuals never appear to have any actual fear that the gun-toter would actually act in the ways of which they just accused them.



    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    [/Mr. Spock voice]

    While it has always puzzled me why someone would get up in the face of a person obviously wearing a gun on their hip and insult that person, their morals, their judgement, and tell outrageous lies about their behavior as well as the relationship between the gun-toter's parents, it seems said individuals never appear to have any actual fear that the gun-toter would actually act in the ways of which they just accused them.



    stay safe.
    Good one. I like that.

    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 03-14-2013 at 09:40 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Good one. I like that.

    OOOO! I like that! sharing via social media now
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.” ~Thomas Jefferson
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  19. #19
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    OOOO! I like that! sharing via social media now
    Thanks I made it up after reading that post.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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