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Suicide at West Coast Armory in Bellevue?

F

FamilyMan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
24
Location
, ,
Way off topic

How is this OC related?

doesn't this violate rule 8?

and all those that attacked the OP and his defenders , violated rule #9 it seems. Because he was attacked because of the date he joined, the number of posts he has, the similarity to another's handle, and because he hadn't built up enough forum cred, to be believed.

I was under the impression, that the first rule of trolls, is not to feed them, if you doubted the post, you can ignore it, yet here we have 8 pages of
"I'm not going to believe it until..." vs. "it's true, I was there!"

Is this a sign of the degradation re the usefulness of the forum?
 
skidmark

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
skidmark said:
Maybe not yesterday, but some time this month. Why they would join during this month and have nothing to say until yesterday is not in and of itself suspicious, but applying my training and experience ....

WCA may have all sorts of reasons for not wanting the story in the news, but anybody suggsting that they have sufficient influence to keep such a story out of the news when "there were like 15 cop cars, an ambulance, and a fire truck outside the place that night" needs to PM me for some vital updates about the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

Again, I do not see anybody making an outright suggestion that these two fine upstanding posters are out and out prevaricating, but lacking any corroboration 24 hours after the fact still makes one wonder if that rose bush has been over-fertilized.

stay safe.
Click to expand...

This is where I apologize for the above. The corroboration we were looking for was unexplainably delayed, but it was provided.
wm2957 said:
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Man-kills-self-at-Bellevue-gun-safety-class-4354804.php
Click to expand...

Alpine said:
Here's the Komo news version:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...n-at-Bellevue-gun-safety-class-198073701.html
Click to expand...

The only thing I can say in explanation is that because of the numerous rumors and "hit pieces" that we (both here on OCDO and within the gun-rights community as a whole) get hit with, the level of scepticism does run high.

I did not previously offer my sympathy to the families of the two posters beause I was waiting to see if te posts could be corroborated. Belatedly, I now publicly offer sympathy and a hope that they and their family members are able to get past the trauma without it negatively effecting their lives.

stay safe.
 
F

Flopsweat

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
165
Location
Slightly right of center
ncwabbit said:
Range's right on target promo: "This 3 hour entry level handgun course is National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) sponsored and is designed for new gun owners or those interested in learning to shoot a handgun. It will provide the student with the basic knowledge and skills necessary to safely handle, load, fire, and unload common types of pistols and revolvers. If your goal is to learn to safely shoot a handgun, or you're preparing to purchase a handgun.

interestingly, when you go to NSSF's website and click on 'find a safety course' NSSF's link takes to you directly, without passing go, to the NRA's course portal!! other training links on NSSF's site also direct you to NRA's offer training courses. Searching their site there is no course named 'right on target' per se, but a 'first shots' quote Many ranges across the country offer free introductory classes to firearm safety and the shooting sports.

quote The National Shooting Sports Foundation is the trade association for the firearms industry. Its mission is to promote, protect and preserve hunting and the shooting sports. Formed in 1961, NSSF has a membership of more than 7,000 manufacturers, distributors, firearms retailers, shooting ranges, sportsmen's organizations and publishers.

wonder why they kludged this course together cuz they aren't NRA instructors??

wabbit
Click to expand...

Sounds very much like that. IIRC, it takes 3 days, a reasonable knowledge of and proficiency with firearms, and a couple hundred bucks to be certified to teach the NRA Basic Pistol class. The First Steps class is simply a cut-down version thereof. They also use the phrase "Knowledge, Skills and Attitude" which is pretty close to what you quoted.
 
W

wa1478

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
6
Location
Seattle
Flopsweat said:
Sounds very much like that. IIRC, it takes 3 days, a reasonable knowledge of and proficiency with firearms, and a couple hundred bucks to be certified to teach the NRA Basic Pistol class. The First Steps class is simply a cut-down version thereof. They also use the phrase "Knowledge, Skills and Attitude" which is pretty close to what you quoted.
Click to expand...

I'm almost positive both instructors were NRA certified.

I've only been to the range once for the class and their other shop a few times. As a new gun owner they were very approachable and patient even with all all my newbie questions.
 
F

Flopsweat

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
165
Location
Slightly right of center
wa1478 said:
I'm almost positive both instructors were NRA certified.

I've only been to the range once for the class and their other shop a few times. As a new gun owner they were very approachable and patient even with all all my newbie questions.
Click to expand...

Thanks. How are you holding up? That had to be pretty rough to watch.
 
W

wa1478

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
6
Location
Seattle
Flopsweat said:
Thanks. How are you holding up? That had to be pretty rough to watch.
Click to expand...

It's still shocking but I'm doing better. I'm extremely grateful nobody else was hurt and everything happened as quickly as it did.

I purchased my first handgun from WCA the week before and haven't shot it yet. I'm going to go back to their range tomorrow and give it a try. Hopefully the instructors are there and I can talk to them or some of the other staff that was present briefly in private. I'm sure it's been very difficult for the instructors as well.
 
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3

38or45

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2012
Messages
46
Location
Washington State
FYI - reply finally from Bellevue PD.

Ariel,

Your email was forwarded to me from our Records department. I am the Public Information Officer for the department. It is a confirmed suicide and the evidence suggests that it was a planned event by the victim. The details can’t be released at this time. We really don’t report out or do media on suicides.

Best Regards,

Officer Carla Iafrate
Bellevue Police Department
Public Information Officer
450 110th Avenue N.E. Bellevue, WA 98004www.bellevuewa.gov/police.htm(425)-452-4129Twitter – @BvuePDFaceBook NOTICE: This electronic record (email) may be a public record, as defined by RCW 42.56.010(2). Public records are subject to the laws and regulations governing the retention, disclosure, destruction and archiving of public records. Accordingly, this email, in whole or in part, may be subject to disclosure pursuant to Chapter 42.56 RCW (Public Records Act).
 
F

Flopsweat

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
165
Location
Slightly right of center
wa1478 said:
It's still shocking but I'm doing better. I'm extremely grateful nobody else was hurt and everything happened as quickly as it did.

I purchased my first handgun from WCA the week before and haven't shot it yet. I'm going to go back to their range tomorrow and give it a try. Hopefully the instructors are there and I can talk to them or some of the other staff that was present briefly in private. I'm sure it's been very difficult for the instructors as well.
Click to expand...

Hang in there. I watched a kid fall to his death a few decades ago. I can tell you that it gets better slowly, but it will probably never fully leave you. I rarely think about it now, but then I've had other scary experiences since that obscure it a bit now. :rolleyes:

If you want some moral support tomorrow, shoot me a PM. I have the cheapo membership there. I also volunteer as an NRA certified instructor at a different range.
 
slapmonkay

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
wa1478 said:
It's still shocking but I'm doing better. I'm extremely grateful nobody else was hurt and everything happened as quickly as it did.

I purchased my first handgun from WCA the week before and haven't shot it yet. I'm going to go back to their range tomorrow and give it a try. Hopefully the instructors are there and I can talk to them or some of the other staff that was present briefly in private. I'm sure it's been very difficult for the instructors as well.
Click to expand...

Its good to have someone to talk to. I am a volunteer first responder, its better to let it out. Everyone handles things differently though.
 
massivedesign

massivedesign

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
865
Location
Olympia, Washington, USA
Dave_pro2a said:
I'm more interested in why another local gun board covered it up. My guess is that WCA 'requested' it, so the board nuked the thread and every subsequent thread on the topic (there was at last 1 more). Especially since the suicide 'likely' used a WCA supplied firearm, and a lawsuit would seem VERY likely. IMHO, WCA has a motive to spread disinformation (denials), suppress info, and keep this off the boards and out of the newspapers.
Click to expand...

I can tell you this, my site, WaGuns.org still has its thread up and active. AFAIK, none of us (owners) have been contacted by WCA. If we would have been, it's still not getting pulled.
 
W

wm2957

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
41
Location
lynnwood
Not the Same Person

wa1478 said:
I'm almost positive both instructors were NRA certified.

I've only been to the range once for the class and their other shop a few times. As a new gun owner they were very approachable and patient even with all all my newbie questions.
Click to expand...

BTW.......wa1478 and I are not the same person. I have a reason why I used the alph-numeric naming....not sure what wa1478's reason was, but hopefully it is clear to everyone that he and I are actually two concerned people that both just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. wa1478....hope you are OK. I am fine, but it may be a while for my kids.
 
bmg50cal

bmg50cal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
306
Location
WA - North Whidbey/ Deception Pass
38or45 said:
FYI - reply finally from Bellevue PD.

Ariel,

Your email was forwarded to me from our Records department. I am the Public Information Officer for the department. It is a confirmed suicide and the evidence suggests that it was a planned event by the victim. The details can’t be released at this time. We really don’t report out or do media on suicides.

Best Regards,

Officer Carla Iafrate
Bellevue Police Department
Public Information Officer
450 110th Avenue N.E. Bellevue, WA 98004www.bellevuewa.gov/police.htm(425)-452-4129Twitter – @BvuePDFaceBook NOTICE: This electronic record (email) may be a public record, as defined by RCW 42.56.010(2). Public records are subject to the laws and regulations governing the retention, disclosure, destruction and archiving of public records. Accordingly, this email, in whole or in part, may be subject to disclosure pursuant to Chapter 42.56 RCW (Public Records Act).
Click to expand...

Nom nom nom.

05%20eat%20crow.jpg


Best crow yet! :D
 
Stretch

Stretch

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
489
Location
Pasco, WA, ,
Dave in Edmonds said:
It was also subsequently debunked by another, even more respected, member. Hence, the deletion. I would suggest that wm2957 may be a anti-gun troll.
Click to expand...

Looks like wm2957 was right.


An unfortunate event in which I would wish nobody to experience. This also goes to prove that some folks here are all to quick to label someone new, and one they don't know a troll, or otherwise. I think that grapeshot's first post was the correct stance.
 
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F

Flopsweat

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Slightly right of center
wm2957 said:
He was a bit of a loner type. He sat in the last seat in the back of the classroom and never spoke or raised his hand. He never spoke to anyone in the class to my knowledge, except a co-worker and friend of mine that was also in this class. My friend, after seeing him shoot the same 1911 .45 the first time, asked him how he liked the .45? to which he said something to the affect of, "It was wicked" One thing that was curious in hind-sight was the fact that he shot the same 1911 gun ever turn, even though there were .22's, 9mm's, 38's, and other type guns available. It was though he was practicing over and over again with the gun he chose to do it with. Another little tidbit that never came out in the paper was that he had "do not resustate" written with a sharpe pen on his T-shirt underneath his button-up shirt. He wore sweats and what almost looked like slippers to me. On hind-sight, he did look the part of someone that might do something like he did.
Click to expand...


Wow. Thank you very much for sharing that, especially so soon after the incident. I volunteer as an NRA instructor (at a different range) and really appreciate the insight. Take a breather, hug the wife and kids. This is going to suck for a while but you'll make it through this together. Sorry about some of the more enthusiastic skeptics here. Say hi to the Easter Bunny for me. ;)
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
Messages
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Valhalla
Forum Rules - guidelines and intent

FamilyMan said:
How is this OC related?

doesn't this violate rule 8?

and all those that attacked the OP and his defenders , violated rule #9 it seems. Because he was attacked because of the date he joined, the number of posts he has, the similarity to another's handle, and because he hadn't built up enough forum cred, to be believed.

I was under the impression, that the first rule of trolls, is not to feed them, if you doubted the post, you can ignore it, yet here we have 8 pages of
"I'm not going to believe it until..." vs. "it's true, I was there!"

Is this a sign of the degradation re the usefulness of the forum?
Click to expand...

It is not OC related. It is however RKBA state specific.

All of the "rules" or called decisions would require volumes to cover each and every possible instance. Every day Moderators make called decisions based on the intent of the forum, trying to do so with a light hand. When something like this happens and interest runs high there is generally some latitude given, provided a connection can be made.

There is adequate reason to question/doubt the validity of extreme circumstances from low post count newbies - unfortunate but true that there are people out there that do things like that.

That this thread has run so long is a testament to our concern and desire for the truth. It is not an example of piling on or blatantly attacking anyone. Not feeding trolls is good. Though that was never seen as a conscientious or collective application.

A sign of the degradation of the usefulness of the forum? Hardly - it is rather a sign of the health and vitality of OCDO.

Lastly, the story and users reporting it have been vindicated. Things happen quickly when we least expect it - could have been anyone of us there.
 
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