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Thread: California Seizes Guns as Owners Lose Right to Keep Arms

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Thumbs down California Seizes Guns as Owners Lose Right to Keep Arms

    FUQ
    Wearing bulletproof vests and carrying 40-caliber Glock pistols, nine California Justice Department agents assembled outside a ranch-style house in a suburb east of Los Angeles. They were looking for a gun owner who’d recently spent two days in a mental hospital.

    They knocked on the door and asked to come in. About 45 minutes later, they came away peacefully with three firearms.
    Further down in the story.

    In an interview as agents inventoried the guns, Lynette Phillips said that while she’d been held involuntarily in a mental hospital in December, the nurse who admitted her had exaggerated the magnitude of her condition.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...tml?cmpid=yhoo
    If there is ever a case that may be ripe for litigation this would seem to that case. If any thing to get all the facts from all quarters.
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    I hope she sues. A lot of the federal law can be gutted by the courts.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "... They had better luck in nearby Upland, where they seized three guns from the home of Lynette Phillips, 48, who’d been hospitalized for mental illness, and her husband, David. One gun was registered to her, two to him.

    “The prohibited person can’t have access to a firearm,” regardless of who the registered owner is, said Michelle Gregory, a spokeswoman for the attorney general’s office..."
    I'm fairly sure there's a court decision that ruled just because one spouse cannot possess firearms doesn't mean every person in the same house is prohibited.

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    The person was considered such a threat they weren't even wearing helmets...

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    One reason why I filed a notice of trespass ... keep them off your land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    I wonder how and why she got "involuntarly committed".

    Also, what happens if you are committed and then "healed" by a mental institution ?
    Says she was held two days. 48 hours max. That's probably not "involuntary committment" as defined in the law. It sounds like she may have been involuntarily detained for a mental health evaluation to determine if she needed to be involuntarily committed. Since those detention orders are usually for 72 hours (unless released earlier by the court) the fact that she did not remain there the full time suggests two MH docs (or three MDs if not MH specialists) signed off that she was not a danger to herself, to others, or substantially unable to care for herself.

    As a matter of fact, it sounds like she was detained Day 1, evaluated, and on Day 2 the docs sent a report to the court saying she had no legal business being held, and she was brought back to court and released.

    Anybody can go to a Magistrate and swear out a "Green Warrant" (so-called in Va because of the color paper it's printed on). They can perjure themselves till they are blue in te face. As long as the Magistrate does not catch them, the warrant is issued. You get picked up and taken before a judge who tells you someone thinks you are a danger to self or others, or unable to care for yourself, and asks if you want to go for a check-up from the neck up voluntarily or involuntarily. If it were me in front of a judge I'd probably say something indicating contemptible thoughts while telling him I was not going voluntarily. As cranky as I can sometimes be I'm pretty sure I can convince a bunch of shrinks I'm not legally crazy - and by making the court send me I won't get billed for the process on top of everything else.

    As for Ca Patriot's actual question: If you are involuntarily committed (not detained as described above) the docs can send a report to the court after (usually 48 or 72 hours) saying you are no longer a danger and can be released. The judge reads the report and decides if you should come back to court ASAP to be released (usually under some sort of order for outpatient treatment) or should stay longer (needs to specify why he does not believe the docs' report) and asks for another report in X days.

    There are probably minor variations in the procedure from state to state, but that's a fair general description of how it works.

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    Phillips claims the admitting nurse "put words into her mouth."

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...s-confiscated/

    Phillips told TheBlaze she had an adjustment to her medication in December and could not stop crying. Her personal psychiatrist suggested she go to Aurora Charter Oak Hospital in Covina, Calif., where she said she was admitted voluntarily, not a threat to herself or others. Then, when she reviewed her file, Phillips said the nurse had recorded that she was involuntarily admitted and indicated she might be a suicide risk. Phillips claims the nurse had put words into her mouth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    One reason why I filed a notice of trespass ... keep them off your land.
    Again, please cite the law that keeps them off your land if they are there for a lawful purpose.

    Folks, watch out for this guy. He constantly leaves these turds of anti-wisdom here. Some other poor schlep is going to follow this unsupported advice and get himself arrested or killed. Notice that this poster hardly ever cites actual law and NEVER follows through on his "advice." I anxiously await the day he tries to follow his own advice (he won't) and gets arrested.

    If you file the "notice of trespass," good luck trying to enforce it if they lawfully come to your door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    I wonder how and why she got "involuntarly committed".

    Also, what happens if you are committed and then "healed" by a mental institution ?
    Was she indeed "committed"? I did not see that word used. Being held involuntarily for a short period of time for observation is specifically exempted from the federal law.

    Commitment should be a legal proceeding as it strips you of Liberty, and due process is constitutionally required for that to happen.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Again, please cite the law that keeps them off your land if they are there for a lawful purpose.

    Folks, watch out for this guy. He constantly leaves these turds of anti-wisdom here. Some other poor schlep is going to follow this unsupported advice and get himself arrested or killed. Notice that this poster hardly ever cites actual law and NEVER follows through on his "advice." I anxiously await the day he tries to follow his own advice (he won't) and gets arrested.

    If you file the "notice of trespass," good luck trying to enforce it if they lawfully come to your door.
    I think you could leave your personal feelings out of your posts of other members. I like David even though I don't agree with him half the time, but then he is a adult. If a person has been trespassed they cannot lawfully come to your door, unless they have a warrant, exigent circumstances or are asked. You should stop throwing tantrums every time you do not like another members posts, it destroys your credibility.
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    You cannot file trespass law enforcement.

    You can goto court for illegally obtained warrant.

    again, David is advocating potentially violent outcomes towards police.
    Last edited by moriar; 03-13-2013 at 03:33 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moriar View Post
    You cannot file trespass law enforcement.

    You can goto court for illegally obtained warrant.

    again, David is advocating violence towards law enforcement.
    David did not advocate violence, you sir told a outright lie. As far as trespass, any person can trespass anybody including police from their property. There is a video of a coffee shop where the owner did exactly what David says, and ejected a police officer from his establishment.

    David is controversial, but it does others and you no good to your credibility to slander him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Was she indeed "committed"? I did not see that word used. Being held involuntarily for a short period of time for observation is specifically exempted from the federal law.

    Commitment should be a legal proceeding as it strips you of Liberty, and due process is constitutionally required for that to happen.
    unfortunately, mental adjudication is not treated in that regard. a panel of usually 3 psychologists make a recommendation of commitment. Once this happens you are committed and the Judge signs off the order.

    Now, to qualify for IC you must qualify in these categories...

    1) Detriment to self in the immediate future, aka you tried to commit suicide or timeline of attempting in the next 24-48 hours.

    2) You are a threat to others.

    3) Refusal of medication if you have a power of atty. aka your POA / Guardian has tried to talk you into taking your meds and refuse and believes that you will fall into the other 2 categories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    David did not advocate violence, you sir told a outright lie. As far as trespass, any person can trespass anybody including police from their property. There is a video of a coffee shop where the owner did exactly what David says, and ejected a police officer from his establishment.

    David is controversial, but it does others and you no good to your credibility to slander him.
    I have corrected my above post, concerning violence.

    Now, onto legality of trespassing police.

    In regards to the coffee shop,

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/04...d-coffee-shop/

    The cop was not charged with trespass, nor was a trespass ordered.

    The owner merely walked up to the officer and "Refused" service to the officer. In the interaction, the Officer was not in the property on a "Official Purpose" but on a personal purpose of obtaining coffee.

    Now, had the Officer been there with a warrant to search the property, The owner could not refuse service.

    Its a matter of go sit in the corner while you wait for your attorney to file paperwork in your defense.

    People need to understand, Do not resist police in the official encounter whether its legal or not. It will end in something bad happening. To resist peacefully and intelligently is to record all interactions with the cops while warrant is being used then wait till your court date and allow your lawyer to stick it to the department on issues of the warrant and the demeanor.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moriar View Post
    I have corrected my above post, concerning violence.

    Now, onto legality of trespassing police.

    In regards to the coffee shop,

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/04...d-coffee-shop/

    The cop was not charged with trespass, nor was a trespass ordered.

    The owner merely walked up to the officer and "Refused" service to the officer. In the interaction, the Officer was not in the property on a "Official Purpose" but on a personal purpose of obtaining coffee.

    Now, had the Officer been there with a warrant to search the property, The owner could not refuse service.

    Its a matter of go sit in the corner while you wait for your attorney to file paperwork in your defense.

    People need to understand, Do not resist police in the official encounter whether its legal or not. It will end in something bad happening. To resist peacefully and intelligently is to record all interactions with the cops while warrant is being used then wait till your court date and allow your lawyer to stick it to the department on issues of the warrant and the demeanor.
    The cop was ordered from the coffee shop, he complied, so their was no arrest. If you were correct he would not have to comply. Police do not have special privileges outside of official duties. And even then without warrants or exigent circumstances they can be ordered off the property. Trespassing a police officer is NOT resisting, and David was not talking about resisting arrest. Again you are telling a lie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The cop was ordered from the coffee shop, he complied, so their was no arrest. If you were correct he would not have to comply. Police do not have special privileges outside of official duties. And even then without warrants or exigent circumstances they can be ordered off the property. Trespassing a police officer is NOT resisting, and David was not talking about resisting arrest. Again you are telling a lie.
    Walking - I think you do not understand the two avenues there is as a cop.

    If a cop walks into a business not on police business, aka Buys a cup of coffee. He is a Civilian in this matter that just so happens to have a badge.

    If a cop walks into a business and walks up to an employee for the purpose of either arresting said employee or responding to a complaint, then he is under color of law.

    Now, if cop walks into business as a civilian, and is refused service and complies then there is no trespass.

    Now, if a cop walks into a business as under color of law, you cannot refuse him.

    now, this is venturing into : IANAL. but maybe you can file a restraining order against an individual police officer. but not a trespass order against an entire department. otherwise criminal pot growers will file trespass against fish and wildlife on all property. Dont see that happening now do you?

    Please

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    Quote Originally Posted by moriar View Post
    Walking - I think you do not understand the two avenues there is as a cop.

    If a cop walks into a business not on police business, aka Buys a cup of coffee. He is a Civilian in this matter that just so happens to have a badge.

    If a cop walks into a business and walks up to an employee for the purpose of either arresting said employee or responding to a complaint, then he is under color of law.

    Now, if cop walks into business as a civilian, and is refused service and complies then there is no trespass.

    Now, if a cop walks into a business as under color of law, you cannot refuse him.

    now, this is venturing into : IANAL. but maybe you can file a restraining order against an individual police officer. but not a trespass order against an entire department. otherwise criminal pot growers will file trespass against fish and wildlife on all property. Dont see that happening now do you?

    Please
    Are you or have you been a cop? I don't think YOU understand the circumstances of the people in the OP. Did you bother to read the links? Did you note the police themselves said they could not enter the residence without a warrant. Did you note the subjects in the OP were NOT under arrest? Again unless the police have a warrant or exigent circumstances they can be trespassed as police, and as civilians.

    Do you even understand what color of law IS? Note it is not a tv show called "Law and Order".
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 03-13-2013 at 04:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Are you or have you been a cop? I don't think YOU understand the circumstances of the people in the OP. Did you bother to read the links? Did you note the police themselves said they could not enter the residence without a warrant. Did you note the subjects in the OP were NOT under arrest? Again unless the police have a warrant or exigent circumstances they can be trespassed as police, and as civilians.

    Do you even understand what color of law IS? Note it is not a tv show called "Law and Order".
    Walking - I did read, They asked to come in. The ONUS is on the homeowner for allowing them to enter.

    If police were at my door, I would not open the door, I would ask if they had a warrant, if they did not, tell tehm no entry with out warrant. And Immediately get my dogs in there cages next to the door. If they then proceed to enter my home, then i would then have my wife and myself already proned out on the floor. All the while having the in house camera's rolling.

    What I was talking to you about is the perception that you can trespass a law enforcement department for no reason. You cant get a trespass w/o a reason, nor can you get a restraining order with out reason.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moriar View Post
    Walking - I did read, They asked to come in. The ONUS is on the homeowner for allowing them to enter.

    If police were at my door, I would not open the door, I would ask if they had a warrant, if they did not, tell tehm no entry with out warrant. And Immediately get my dogs in there cages next to the door. If they then proceed to enter my home, then i would then have my wife and myself already proned out on the floor. All the while having the in house camera's rolling.

    What I was talking to you about is the perception that you can trespass a law enforcement department for no reason. You cant get a trespass w/o a reason, nor can you get a restraining order with out reason.
    HELLO! A homeowner CAN trespass anybody for no or any reason. A trespass is NOT the same as a restraining order, I thought you claimed to know what you are talking about. It was bad enough when I thought you did not read the link, but now that I know you did it makes it even worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    HELLO! A homeowner CAN trespass anybody for no or any reason. A trespass is NOT the same as a restraining order, I thought you claimed to know what you are talking about. It was bad enough when I thought you did not read the link, but now that I know you did it makes it even worse.
    Walking - I will spell it out for you since you and David are special as special gets, the owners did not say you can not enter. They did not refuse their service. Thus there cannot be trespass. My property lines have no trespass signs up, when I come across hunters that have barely come into my property I don't call police, I politely ask them to leave if they don't then I call police and trespass them, I now have a reason to trespass. David has yet to cite laws of ability to carte Blanche trespass an entire police department. That would be like me filing trespass against fair fax county police and fish and wildlife

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    Quote Originally Posted by moriar View Post
    Walking - I will spell it out for you since you and David are special as special gets, the owners did not say you can not enter. They did not refuse their service. Thus there cannot be trespass. My property lines have no trespass signs up, when I come across hunters that have barely come into my property I don't call police, I politely ask them to leave if they don't then I call police and trespass them, I now have a reason to trespass. David has yet to cite laws of ability to carte Blanche trespass an entire police department. That would be like me filing trespass against fair fax county police and fish and wildlife
    Let me spell it out for you! Neither David or I said they trespassed the officers. YOU on the other hand seem to invent things in the mind, like suggesting David was calling for violence or resisting arrest. Obviously YOU missed that they NEVER were under arrest. David does not have to cite laws that he can trespass, those are his rights as a property owner. Maybe YOU need to cite laws that he cannot. Please cite one law that states a property owner has to give a reason to eject somebody from their property?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Let me spell it out for you! Neither David or I said they trespassed the officers. YOU on the other hand seem to invent things in the mind, like suggesting David was calling for violence or resisting arrest. Obviously YOU missed that they NEVER were under arrest. David does not have to cite laws that he can trespass, those are his rights as a property owner. Maybe YOU need to cite laws that he cannot. Please cite one law that states a property owner has to give a reason to eject somebody from their property?
    I have previously cited notice of trespass case law .. you may search for it ...

    You would know that when they come on your property that they are there either: for good reason that they can be there or are trespassing

    I don't think that just because they know that you own a gun that its PC to enter the house w/o a warrant...this issue is becoming more important now that various bills are being examined regarding registration & confiscation....

    In CT, they get warrants ... I have read about 50 case files and judges issue them out like candy but it still goes before a judge.

    I don't know if CA also requires a warrant ... anybody?

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    Quote Originally Posted by moriar View Post
    Walking - I will spell it out for you since you and David are special as special gets, the owners did not say you can not enter. They did not refuse their service. Thus there cannot be trespass. My property lines have no trespass signs up, when I come across hunters that have barely come into my property I don't call police, I politely ask them to leave if they don't then I call police and trespass them, I now have a reason to trespass. David has yet to cite laws of ability to carte Blanche trespass an entire police department. That would be like me filing trespass against fair fax county police and fish and wildlife
    No trespass signs do not mean that people cannot enter the property .. they can still go onto the driveway, walkways to the home etc..

    I had a thread about trespass posted about 3 months back full of legal authorities....its YOUR land and, believe it or not, you still have the authority to keep anyone off you like.

    Cops can enter if they have a warrant or want to arrest you though ... firemen can still respond to a fire , etc.

    You are free to file a notice of trespass against the police and F/Wildlife authorities ...

    I do not have "no trespassing" signs as its only specific parties I want kept off my land due to abuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moriar View Post
    the owners did not say you can not enter. They did not refuse their service. Thus there cannot be trespass.
    100% correct .. that is why you need to learn your rights BEFORE they knock on the door .. they'll say and can say anything to gain entry. Up to you to know if you can deny and then to actually perform.

    I've had FBI agents say I need to let them in or I would be arrested .. and then slammed the door in their face & guess what? They went away. 'Cause I did nothing illegal.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 03-13-2013 at 08:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    100% correct .. that is why you need to learn your rights BEFORE they knock on the door .. they'll say and can say anything to gain entry. Up to you to know if you can deny and then to actually perform.

    I've had FBI agents say I need to let them in or I would be arrested .. and then slammed the door in their face & guess what? They went away. 'Cause I did nothing illegal.
    David, I agree with the first half which so far did not think was possible.

    However f/wildlife have specific exemptions in law that they can walk thru tracts of land during hunting seasons with or without permission. So with said exemption how would that come to stop by trespass? Or better yet what department will charge said trespasser ?

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