Thread: No Gun sign vs spouse
How many of you have a spouse or sugnificant other who isn't into the gun cloture as much as you and when it comes to the "No Gun signs" and not patronizing such places it causes issues.
Here is why I ask. My wife is pro gun and me carrying but when it comes to the gun free zones she could care less about them and continue to support them. When we go someplace new and see a sign I say lets go someplace else and she is like well put it in the car or You should have left it at home. We have gotten into some squabbles over it that never end well.
How do you handle the situation as it arrises?
AD1(AW) USN (ACT) 12/07/1997-10/02/2011
TSgt USAFR 10/03/2011-?
Kids who hunt and fish, don't steal and deal
I've been told that the even the longest journey begins with just a single step. Sounds like she's with you 90%, give the rest some time. Explain to her that the gun does you and her no good in the car, or at home. It defeats the entire purpose of having a permit. Be patient and continue to explain the purpose and your intent, and the reasons behind both. Stick to your guns and she'll come around to your thinking , and respect you more for it.
My wife went from putting up with guns, to wanting to shoot them herself, to getting her own permit. It took 8 years to get there. My wife is an Okie, it doesn't any more stubborn than that, my friend.
Last edited by babiker911; 03-12-2013 at 06:46 PM.
The first time I had this issue, I lost. That was at Buffalo Wild Wings. I had mentioned to my wife previous the reasoning behind my actions but obviously didn't fully explain that this meant going elsewhere even when we were already at the door. She was "starving" and it was obvious I was not going to win. She protested when I threatened to just wait in the car, then I come up with a compromise. I agreed to eat with her and "be happy" with one stipulation. No matter the future circumstances she would always "willfully" withhold business from any establishment that banned lawfully carried firearms.
It was a victory but I still had to give BWW my business, so I expressed my displeasure of their policy via their website, email, and facebook (which didnít go over well with their fans). I am lucky to have a wife that will usually support me on things like this, but it still requires a compromise.
My wife being born in TX and raised in OK has some of the same qualities. She is pro gun and has went out and gotten her permit as well. She was a little concerned about OCing when it first came out, for herself. She supported my right to OC and eventually she found that its just so much more comfortable for her. She has gone from concealing, to only OCing with me, and more recently she OCed with some girlfriends of hers on a girls day out. When it comes to places that are posted she usually will let me know if someone put a sign up. If you must frequent places that are posted then the choice is yours. I will say that if you conceal carry in places that are posted and someone finds out then they can ask you to leave, and if you don't then its trespassing... but you still have a means to protect yourself and your family.
Active Duty Army, Ft. Sill Oklahoma, 10+ years
OKOCA Facebook Page www.facebook.com/opencarryok
It takes time but they do come around. I was going to ask how you know my wife but quickly realized she couldn't be the only one like that.
I won't argue with my wife because women can back up just as easy as note forward. I take her thoughts into account and remind her that its my right to carry as well as there right to put up those signs. So ill wait out here armed you go in and I won't come back here after today. We respect each others rights that way.
Marriage is an institution ... so you have been living in an institution .. you shouldn't even have a gun !!!!
Know before you go. Be pro-active and know whether your destination is posted or not. My wife is just sort of OK with me carrying everywhere, but she really thinks it is silly. I know how she feels and she knows that I won't give it up. We still have words occasionally. Friendorfoe.us is a good site, still new and needing a lot more input, but worth checking out. Also, on this and other forums there is a pretty good list of places that are or are not posted. Generally, there will be a non-posted business for about anything you want to do.
My wife and I will be married 40 years on the 24th of this month. She has backed me on open/concealed carry for the past 15 years. We are old west re-enactors and she will use blanks in her gun. She however will not use live rounds for self defense. She says thats my job. Our disagreements end with her statement that she bends to my right to be wrong. How the hell she has put up with me for 40 years is mind boggleing. I guess its because she is an okie born and bred and just as stubborn.
Though this site is about holstered handgun open carry, there are other options that are less lethal than can be open carried. Such as pepper spray, or tazer if it is legal in your state.
Originally Posted by Primus
Originally Posted by Primus
Last edited by BigDeeeeeeee; 03-13-2013 at 11:13 AM.
Pass the popcorn
So we need to look at Section (b)(1). It is my opinion that if a business is posted, then the owner has made it clear they do not want firearms in their establishment. If you take a firearm into the establishment, you no longer have express permission to be there as you have violated a condition set fourth by the owner as allowing you to be there. Without this express permission, you have committed trespass.Originally Posted by Midwest City Code
Section (b)(2) indicates that trespass is also defines as not leaving when asked and most businesses will ask you first because they still want your money and don't want to cause a big scene.
The big argument that I have heard about trespass is that it is about if you are allowed to be someplace, not what you have with you. I personally still believe that carrying past the sign violates the express permission clause and therefore causes you to trespass.
I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice
I can't find a good definition for "express consent" and without that it is hard for me to agree with it violating the "express consent" clause. To me "express consent" means that you have been specifically told that you may enter the property (such as actual private property where you would go hunting), but businesses open to the public operate under "implied consent" where is implied that all have consent to enter. Also the sign itself doesn't seem to have the weight of law as it appears the only signs with the weight of law are covered under A-3 which is only for government posted signs.
Not saying that my way of interpreting the law is correct, simply that that is how I read it given the verbage and a lack of proper definition.
Since you brought up the express vs implied consent issue, I have seen some city codes that do say "express or implied consent". Don't have time at the moment to go find them again, but what is your opinion when the trespass law says "express and implied consent"?
I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice
And firearm signs are as well in the same category as they are stating no firearms permitted as a condition of entry. Most cases though businesses will work with you because they want money and there is a general understanding that sometimes people do get boneheaded and just dont pay attention. It saddens me that I have a duty to perform and just the other day had to escort a person out (Could have done trespass and cost 150 bucks) but I politely informed him I do support the firearm community and that unfortunately my employer does not. It was one of my more painful moments.
All in all though some places do some pretty boneheaded things with these signs such as 7/11s who for some reason want to put the sign on the bottom of the door to presumably not attract the attention of armed robbers. The flip side is its not noticeable to the every day joe and could land an uncomfortable position to be in. I dont see however if it were to go to court the court siding with 7-11 as the signs are intentionally placed outside of site.
While I understand hrdware's legal theory, and agree with him on a purely theoretical sense. I've actually had people arrested for trespassing at my business. In practical use, police ask multiple times whether I told the subject in no uncertain terms that their presence was not wanted, and that I wanted them to leave. Unless I answer that I told them to leave multiple times, they don't arrest them. Once they arrest them, they then tell me that I have to say to their face, "you are not welcome on this property, and may not return".
I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the strength of their case. I've never gone to court on one, because they always have either plead out, or failed to appear and were found guilty "in absentia"...
For for legal theory, I think he's right... but in the hood where I live, it's not done this way. I don't see any OKC cop arresting for trespassing solely on the basis of a sign with no legal authority as notification.
Having said that, I think that concealing and spending money at a business that posts these silly no gun signs is rewarding stupid. I go to great pains to reward behavior I want to continue, and not to reward boneheaded decisions. Especially when I actually have a choice.
In Washington State it's already been ruled on. The signs do not carry weight of law. So I conceal when I have to, and OC every other time.
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Now I'm not advocating that one do business with such places, but am curious about the subject simply from the legal standpoint of signs and trespass.