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AG office wants CPL info to go public?

D

deanf

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Great, so I expect to see your tax return and your social security reports posted publically on this thread.....
Click to expand...

You, a private person, are asking me, a private person, to directly provide you with records which may or may not exist.

Do I have to explain the vast differences between that and public government records to you?
 
3

38or45

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Jun 3, 2012
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Washington State
deanf said:
You, a private person, are asking me, a private person, to directly provide you with records which may or may not exist.

Do I have to explain the vast differences between that and public government records to you?
Click to expand...

You're right. You should be more fearful that the government has it than a private individual..

Wish I could go to the meeting, been working more OT than I probably should while pregnant though.
 
EMNofSeattle

EMNofSeattle

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deanf said:
You, a private person, are asking me, a private person, to directly provide you with records which may or may not exist.

Do I have to explain the vast differences between that and public government records to you?
Click to expand...

CPLs are not a public government record as they do not relate to actual operations of the government nor is the name of a holder of legitimate concern to any member of the public
 
F

FrayedString

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deanf said:
Actually it is. While declared "private", vehicle registration information is available under very broad "exceptions". DOL even has a form on their web site for requesting the information.


http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/224003.pdf
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This hardly seems the same. The form you linked to requires the person requesting the information to be pretty darn specific (specific license plate) as well as justify their request. Presumably what they are talking about here is simply making the whole list public, just like was the case back in NY; and we all know how that turned out once somebody published an interactive map of all permit holders...
 
Alpine

Alpine

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I talked to most of the people on the list. None seemed anti-gun hostile except possibly one, though he didn't say anything anti-gun he just acted very non-committal.

A few I spoke to were strong 2A supporters who urged me and everyone available to come to the hearing and speak. All of them know about what happened in New York and many of them stated they share the same concerns I had and would recommend not changing current regs.
 
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Flopsweat

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deanf said:
The issuance of CPLs is not a government operation?
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Issuing one is, but having one is not.

The transaction in question contains some public information and some that is private. The fact that someone applied is public. Who that person was is private. Can you ask the Census Bureau for the address of every household with members under or over a particular age? Of course not.
 
Freedom1Man

Freedom1Man

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Flopsweat said:
SNIP
Can you ask the Census Bureau for the address of every household with members under or over a particular age? Of course not.
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You can ASK anything of anyone.

However if a constitutionalist filled out the census then the Census Bureau would not have any information about age, gender, name, marital status, etc. The Bureau would only have the number of people living at any giving address at the time of the Census.
 
F

Flopsweat

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Freedom1Man said:
You can ASK anything of anyone.

However if a constitutionalist filled out the census then the Census Bureau would not have any information about age, gender, name, marital status, etc. The Bureau would only have the number of people living at any giving address at the time of the Census.
Click to expand...

But you got my point, right?
 
bmg50cal

bmg50cal

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Freedom1Man said:
You can ASK anything of anyone.

However if a constitutionalist filled out the census then the Census Bureau would not have any information about age, gender, name, marital status, etc. The Bureau would only have the number of people living at any giving address at the time of the Census.
Click to expand...

I tired to tell my parents this, but no, they don't listen to me. :confused:
 
EMNofSeattle

EMNofSeattle

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Freedom1Man said:
You can ASK anything of anyone.

However if a constitutionalist filled out the census then the Census Bureau would not have any information about age, gender, name, marital status, etc. The Bureau would only have the number of people living at any giving address at the time of the Census.
Click to expand...

I think it's time to make a forum rule against sovereign citizens giving out legal advice. If only he had read actual case law on the subject, census information is not subject to the 4th amendment as it is sealed by law and not usable in criminal proceedings and asks nothing of probabtive value of people in a criminal context anyway. If the census bureau chooses to play the game with you they can fine up to 5000 dollars.
 
Freedom1Man

Freedom1Man

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EMNofSeattle said:
I think it's time to make a forum rule against sovereign citizens giving out legal advice. If only he had read actual case law on the subject, census information is not subject to the 4th amendment as it is sealed by law and not usable in criminal proceedings and asks nothing of probabtive value of people in a criminal context anyway. If the census bureau chooses to play the game with you they can fine up to 5000 dollars.
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Where am I giving legal advice?

Why are you resorting to name calling? What is a sovereign citizen anyways? The way you use it to refer to me, seems to mean one who simply follows the law. If that is the case then why make a rule against someone who follows the law from telling people what the law says.

Please show the constitutional authority for the collection of any information beyond the number of people?

If the 5000 FRN, or did you really mean dollar, fine was true then my father would have had to pay it many times. Each time he had the agents show up because he refused to give any more information than was required. He would only tell them how many people lived there even when they would come out to harass him.
 
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J

Jeff Hayes

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EMNofSeattle said:
I think it's time to make a forum rule against sovereign citizens giving out legal advice. If only he had read actual case law on the subject, census information is not subject to the 4th amendment as it is sealed by law and not usable in criminal proceedings and asks nothing of probabtive value of people in a criminal context anyway. If the census bureau chooses to play the game with you they can fine up to 5000 dollars.
Click to expand...

Maybe we should have a forum rule that you have to think your comments all the way through before you post them, we could call it the 10 minute rule.
 
J

Jeff Hayes

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Freedom1Man said:
Where am I giving legal advice?

Why are you resorting to name calling? What is a sovereign citizen anyways? The way you use it to refer to me, seems to mean one who simply follows the law. If that is the case then why make a rule against someone who follows the law from telling people what the law says.

Please show the constitutional authority for the collection of any information beyond the number of people?

If the 5000 FRN, or did you really mean dollar, fine was true then my father would have had to pay it many times. Each time he had the agents show up because he refused to give any more information than was required. He would only tell them how many people lived there even when they would come out to harass him.
Click to expand...

One has to have the cajones first before one can act, IMHO you are putting the cart ahead of the horse in this case.
 
Freedom1Man

Freedom1Man

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Jeff Hayes said:
One has to have the cajones first before one can act, IMHO you are putting the cart ahead of the horse in this case.
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When I filled out the one in 2010 I simply wrote that 2 people lived that this address.

I never got fined. Never even got a visit from one of their idiot agents.

So I don't understand your statement.

----EDIT
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?112721-The-Census

Link to a new thread to discuss the census there to get this back on track.
 
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