Good Cop, Bad Cop~Knowing which is which?

Citizen said:

I don't know whether to scold you for insulting snakes by comparing them to cops. Or, laugh for the sly way of comparing cops to snakes.



For unfamiliar readers, only two of the pictured snakes are poisonous. There's a little poem that helps:

Yellow and black, friend of Jack.
Red and yellow, dangerous fellow.

Notice that on two of the snakes, the red bands are directly adjacent on the yellow bands. On the rest, red and yellow are separated by black.

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Oooops you are wrong, there are no poisonous snakes, but watch out for the ones with venom... :uhoh:

minarchist said:

[personal attack redacted and reported] no one owns me, and I will exercise my natural law right (if I were a theist I would call it a god-given right) of self-defense regardless of the identity of the person trying to kill me.

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Your perception that it is self-defense may prompt you to act, but (again) twelve good men and true will make the legal decision whether or not what you believed with all of your heart was self-defense, actually was.

I post this so that other posters are not led down the garden path into believing that if they decide to take an action against LEOs, it won't necessarily be adjudicated as self-defense, no matter how convinced they are that it should be.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

Please do not come in this thread threatening reporting other posters. If you cannot handle the heat, get out of the thread. Otherwise stop being a crybaby and wasting the mods time on sissy reports. Obviously you did not read the OP, as ALL replies are welcome, stop playing forum cop!

Citizen said:

I don't know whether to scold you for insulting snakes by comparing them to cops. Or, laugh for the sly way of comparing cops to snakes.



For unfamiliar readers, only two of the pictured snakes are poisonous. There's a little poem that helps:

Yellow and black, friend of Jack.
Red and yellow, dangerous fellow.

Notice that on two of the snakes, the red bands are directly adjacent on the yellow bands. On the rest, red and yellow are separated by black.

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Walkingwolf is correct it is venomous snakes and the other note is that the little poem only works in North America.

Otherwise milk snakes and coral snakes can have the exact same color patterns.

OC for ME said:

Careful how you sling around the term "gun owners."

I wonder if you intended to use that term or are unaware of the difference between "owning" a gun and "possessing" a gun.

A prohibited person steals a gun or buys a stolen gun he possesses that gun because the rightful owner no longer possesses his gun.

Some may say semantics, I say a very clear distinction. Generalizing "gun owners" to include those who unlawfully possess a gun is bashing all lawful gun owners. By definition lawful gun owners are not going to commit a crime with their gun. If/when a lawful gun owner commits a crime with his gun he then may become a prohibited person and no longer a gun owner.

Back to the OP, I treat them all as bad until they prove to me they are not. Just as every cop should treat me as bad until I prove to him that I am not.

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It was intentionally used. You split hairs on the issue to keep the bad from causing unfair judgement to be passed on the good. A "lawful gun owner" can commit crimes. Does that reduce him from being an "owner" to a "possessor"?

I'm not saying this to bash anyone. It illustrates the point that you cannot judge a group on the actions of a few.

palerider116 said:

It was intentionally used. You split hairs on the issue to keep the bad from causing unfair judgement to be passed on the good. A "lawful gun owner" can commit crimes. Does that reduce him from being an "owner" to a "possessor"?

I'm not saying this to bash anyone. It illustrates the point that you cannot judge a group on the actions of a few.

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Unless the few are acting within the prescribed parameters set forth by the group (e.g. the communist party members destroying private property rights).

eye95 said:

Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
[personal attack redacted and reported] no one owns me, and I will exercise my natural law right (if I were a theist I would call it a god-given right) of self-defense regardless of the identity of the person trying to kill me.

Your perception that it is self-defense may prompt you to act, but (again) twelve good men and true will make the legal decision whether or not what you believed with all of your heart was self-defense, actually was.

I post this so that other posters are not led down the garden path into believing that if they decide to take an action against LEOs, it won't necessarily be adjudicated as self-defense, no matter how convinced they are that it should be.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

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Identifying you as a statist is not a personal attack. It is a perception you generate. I do see your stumbling block though... arrogance. It clouds your view of yourself.

As to the rest of your post, gimme a break.

http://www.macon.com/2013/01/24/2329069/macon-police-officer-jailed-on.html

By AMY LEIGH WOMACK — awomack@macon.com

Two Macon police officers were jailed Thursday on allegations they stole a tractor from a Macon plumbing business.

Troy Guidry, 41, of Monroe County, and 32-year-old Jon Adam Wantz, of Warner Robins, were charged with theft by taking, criminal trespass and violation of the oath of office. according to a Macon police news release issued late Thursday night.

Heath Vickers, owner of Mr. Rooter on Roff Avenue, said he and his staff reported to work about 7:30 a.m. Thursday and noticed some outdoor lights had been broken.

Not noticing anything missing, an employee checked the GPS locations for the business’s equipment and saw that a $25,000 tractor was in Juliette.

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2013/01/24/2329069/macon-police-officer-jailed-on.html#storylink=cpy

eye95 said:

[personal attack redacted and reported]

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stating that I think that you are an enthusiastic statist != personal attack

Freedom1Man said:

SNIP Otherwise milk snakes and coral snakes can have the exact same color patterns.

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(chuckle) Kinda like good cops and bad cops, eh?

JTHunter said:

SNIP
We have all heard it before - "Do not talk to cops!" While you may not be able to avoid doing so, the less you say and even more, the less you interact with cops, the safer and saner you will be.

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But cops are our friends why should we not talk to our friends? There is no way that a cop would do ANY of those things you and I have reported. </sarcasm>

There are a few okay cops out there but they are few and far between in my book. Any cop showing up to a MWAG call when the caller says it's in a holster, when it's legal to OC, is not a good cop. Any cop who assists IRS agents confiscate property without a warrant/court order is not a good cop.

I know a guy who was a good cop. When he got the wrong guy sent to jail AND he learned that it was the wrong guy he did his best at the time to get the guy out. The corrupt judge said that he didn't care and that he was already in jail so there was no reason to let him out.

Couple of things to address:

Milk snakes and coral snakes do not have the same exact color pattern.

Red and yellow kills a fellow. Red and black is a friend to Jack!

Generalizing "gun owners" to include those who unlawfully possess a gun is bashing all lawful gun owners. By definition lawful gun owners are not going to commit a crime with their gun. If/when a lawful gun owner commits a crime with his gun he then may become a prohibited person and no longer a gun owner.

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Not all crimes are created equal.

palerider116 said:

It is prudent for the police to assume all citizens are threats. The frequency of gun owners killing, robbing, or committing other crimes demands constant vigilance on an officer's part. You cannot avoid any news story about some crime committed by a gun owner. Crime statistics prove gun owners commit crimes. Furthermore, gun owners kill and enjoy killing police. <snip>

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troubling views to hold. You paint all gun owners in a very negative light.

Crime statistics prove cops commit crimes. Furthermore cops kill and enjoy killing gun owners.

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The absurdity of the latter statement illustrates my point. Sadly citizens are all viewed as a threat to any individual LEO by that LEO. The citizenry is expected, generally, to not hold LE in the same light because that is considered "unfair" and painting with a broad brush. Some here on OCDO hold to this viewpoint and this I believe taints any discussion of the reality of modern LEAs and their employee's conduct.

Deanimator said:

Absolutely.

I couldn't care less if the police trust me.

I DEMAND that their conduct toward me be in accordance with applicable law.

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Exactly. And the person you replied to and others who equate private citizens to public, should remember private citizens are not constitutionally restrained, as the public citizens are supposed to be. So the don't "generalize" rule really doesn't apply.

I wrote a rant, some time ago, about there is "no bad apple" the system is wrong, of course I have been recently moderated for that statement. This is not an attack on cops on a personal level, this is to point out the whole system is corrupt and wrong, from the street cop to the administrators, to the prosecutors to the judges. The only good cop in my mind is the one that stands up and takes a stand for our civil rights against the bureaucracy that is working so hard to abrogate them.

The more cops are put on a pedestal, and the more they are protected and held immune from their liabilities, the more despicable type of people will be attracted to that job.

There are stereo types, cops need to work to change it. All engineers I know are A-type personalities bordering on OCD, because of the nature of the job. Same in my profession most "rough carpenters" are very similar in personalities.

OC for ME said:

Couple of things to address:

Milk snakes and coral snakes do not have the same exact color pattern.

Red and yellow kills a fellow. Red and black is a friend to Jack!

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I stated that it was OUTSIDE north America. Although I did miss-state that it was milk snakes that matched Corals out side the country I had forgotten about the other snakes like King snakes.

You linking only applies with in the United states an even more restrictive statement than I even made. I used to work at a Reptile Zoo it was one of those interesting pieced of trivia about the milk snakes and coral snakes.

"Red to yellow, kill a fellow; red to black, venom lack," so goes the old saying. This method of remembering the color sequence of a coral snake works pretty well throughout most of the United States. In fact, it seems to define U.S. coral snakes everywhere but in the northern Florida Keys. On Key Largo, for example, the colors of the eastern coral snakes (Micrurus fulvius) are muted and most, if not all, of the yellow rings are lacking. Often the sole yellow ring visible on Key Largo coral snakes is on the rear of the head. Otherwise they are banded in a rather dull red and black.

SNIP
South American Species
My luck in not finding coral snakes on cue follows me from the American Southeast into Amazonian Peru. In Peru, coral snakes diverge from what we Americans have come to consider the "normal" suite of coral snake characteristics. In Peru, coral snakes may be typically ringed and colored in red, black and yellow (or white).

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As you will note that the saying does not even apply to all the coral snakes within theses united states.

Besides word press is a not a reliable source.

sudden valley gunner said:

I wrote a rant, some time ago, about there is "no bad apple" the system is wrong, of course I have been recently moderated for that statement. This is not an attack on cops on a personal level, this is to point out the whole system is corrupt and wrong, from the street cop to the administrators, to the prosecutors to the judges. The only good cop in my mind is the one that stands up and takes a stand for our civil rights against the bureaucracy that is working so hard to abrogate them.

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Proof of the "corruption" and "wrongness" of the system lies no farther away than the L.A.P.D.'s recent shooting of an innocent 71 year old woman and their actions subsequent to the shooting.

It seems to be standard operating procedure across law enforcement, that when police commit unambiguous crimes against innocent citizens, priority one is to spit in that citizen's face. This is SO routine, that I literally cannot think of a SINGLE instance where a crime was committed against a citizen by police where the victim WASN'T further degraded, humiliated, mocked or subject to intimidation. It always seems to be the case in "mistaken address" raids, just as it's turning out to be the case in the shooting of the two Hispanic women.

Deanimator said:

Proof of the "corruption" and "wrongness" of the system lies no farther away than the L.A.P.D.'s recent shooting of an innocent 71 year old woman and their actions subsequent to the shooting.

It seems to be standard operating procedure across law enforcement, that when police commit unambiguous crimes against innocent citizens, priority one is to spit in that citizen's face. This is SO routine, that I literally cannot think of a SINGLE instance where a crime was committed against a citizen by police where the victim WASN'T further degraded, humiliated, mocked or subject to intimidation. It always seems to be the case in "mistaken address" raids, just as it's turning out to be the case in the shooting of the two Hispanic women.

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They hide behind their bull$hit immunity laws.

carolina guy said:

If it is "prudent" to treat all citizens as threats...then you are in the wrong job. But, that said, there are good LEO's and bad LEO's...but there are also a LOT of arrogant and misinformed LEOs...and that is the largest threat to LACs that are armed because those LEOs are given the benefit of the doubt when it is their PROFESSION to know and enforce the LAW...not their best guess or recollection of it. But this is just my opinion...but I liken it to "abusive priests"...they should KNOW better and should be treated more harshly when they transgress.

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It is NOT prudent to treat all as THREATS, it is however, prudent to treat all as POTENTIAL threats.... that is why so many of us use recorders, to protect us from the POTENTIALLY abusive, color of law, opinion enforcing officer who we can not differentiate from the LEO's that only enforce the law on a Constitutional basis. I have NO problem with an LEO treating me as a POTENTIAL threat as long as said LEO recognizes during the NON-CONSENUAL encounter that I am not acting illegally or in a threatening manner and treats me as a citizen without color of law or opinion enforcement actions.

Excerpt:

Freedom1Man said:

Any cop showing up to a MWAG call when the caller says it's in a holster, when it's legal to OC, is not a good cop.

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I laughed mirthlessly at this one sentence.

Simply showing up for a call for service makes a cop a bad cop because an ill informed citizen calls in a MWAG? It has the potential for a cop to become a bad cop if not handled lawfully. Absolutely.

Showing up, seeing the OCer carry on lawfully, and not engaging the OCer makes one a bad cop?

What if I walk up, shake the guy's hand, and say "nice gun" and walk off? Is that an arrest?

If you get really lucky, you as an officer might even get to teach the caller about OC, 18.2-308 (for VA), and the right to bear arms. Novel concept!

Yeah, "showing up" is bad??? Laughable.

The best encounter I ever had with a cop because of my OC was his responding to a MWAG call. We sat down and had coffee together. It was a great chat. He was quite Liberty-minded.

It is what the cop chooses to do after the look-see that matters.

palerider116 said:

Excerpt:



I laughed mirthlessly at this one sentence.

Simply showing up for a call for service makes a cop a bad cop because an ill informed citizen calls in a MWAG? It has the potential for a cop to become a bad cop if not handled lawfully. Absolutely.

Showing up, seeing the OCer carry on lawfully, and not engaging the OCer makes one a bad cop?

What if I walk up, shake the guy's hand, and say "nice gun" and walk off? Is that an arrest?

If you get really lucky, you as an officer might even get to teach the caller about OC, 18.2-308 (for VA), and the right to bear arms. Novel concept!

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I have yet to meet any cop that was interested in educating the caller on the subject. They all seem to rather want to harass the OCer.

It's good to know that not all who respond are bad across the country. HOWEVER all the ones who have responded when I was the OCer have not really been good cops. There have been some less evil ones, because they always ask if I am a felon tells me that they either do not know what a citizen's rights are or willfully wish harass a citizen for exercising rights.

If only 1 cop showed up and just said 'hello' then I MIGHT redact that statement. I have only seen one cop only once and he did not even get out of his car. He did however ask if I was a felon.