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Thread: Don't hold your breath

  1. #1
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Don't hold your breath

    Tim Skubick writes that the Republican-Controlled senate leadership has told Sen. Green to "back off" on legislation that changes anything in regards to Michigan's "Criminal Empowerment Zones".

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ID:	10108 From The Grand Rapids Press, March 13, 2013, Page A7
    Last edited by DrTodd; 03-13-2013 at 11:29 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  2. #2
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Nice!
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  3. #3
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Re: Don't hold your breath

    First of all Tim is an idiot... So don't hold your breath that synthesis ng he writes is close to accurate.

    Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    First of all Tim is an idiot... So don't hold your breath that synthesis ng he writes is close to accurate.

    Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2
    An astute observation. My take on him has always been he's a fawning sycophant eager to slurp at the backsides of those in Lansing.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    First of all Tim is an idiot... So don't hold your breath that synthesis ng he writes is close to accurate.

    Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2
    True... to some extent. He does, however, provide quotes in the article. I guess it remains to be seen what transpires over the remainder of the legislative session. If the recent past is any indication, he may be correct.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Don't hold your breath

    I've not heard that Green has been told to back off. I've only heard things to the contrary.

    That quote wasn't from Green.

    Does anyone have a link to the whole article?
    Last edited by TheQ; 03-14-2013 at 04:13 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  7. #7
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I've not heard that Green has been told to back off. I've only heard things to the contrary.

    That quote wasn't from Green.

    Does anyone have a link to the whole article?
    I wish I could have posted the whole article but fair-use provisions start to get cloudy at that point. I've been unable to find a link that has the article on-line.

    IF he has been told to "back off"... or not... I guess the proof will be in what happens from now until the end of the legislative session. Like I stated above, up to this point not much has been done considering that the Republicans control both the state house and senate and hold the governorship. I will be pleasantly surprised if this changes in the near future.

    Q: Email sent to your MOC acct.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 03-14-2013 at 05:38 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  8. #8
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Republicans Republicans-In-Name-Only control have significant numbers in both the state house and senate and hold the governorship.
    FIFY, and that should help you understand.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  9. #9
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Don't hold your breath

    This from an inside, trustable source:

    Skubick was using Sen. Green’s quotes out of context and to editorialize. Senate leadership actually encouraged Mike to reintroduce comprehensive CPL reform after SB 59 was vetoed.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  10. #10
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    This from an inside, trustable source:

    Skubick was using Sen. Green’s quotes out of context and to editorialize. Senate leadership actually encouraged Mike to reintroduce comprehensive CPL reform after SB 59 was vetoed.
    Well, I'm shocked- SHOCKED, I tell you! I can't believe the media would quote someone out of context to support their spin on the 'news'.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Don't hold your breath

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    This from an inside, trustable source:

    Skubick was using Sen. Green’s quotes out of context and to editorialize. Senate leadership actually encouraged Mike to reintroduce comprehensive CPL reform after SB 59 was vetoed.
    I also have heard politicians claiming their quote was taken out of context...when it wasn't. Time will tell...
    Last edited by DrTodd; 03-16-2013 at 04:29 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    However you know how to tell if a Politician is lying?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I also have heard politicians claiming their quote was taken out of context...when it wasn't. Time will tell...
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  13. #13
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Don't hold your breath

    I'll believe this source over a liberal media goon that half of the people here said wasn't trustable -- even before I said a word.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Always think when I hear inside source what it means is someone who shouldn't be saying anything or doesn't have the guts to put their name to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I'll believe this source over a liberal media goon that half of the people here said wasn't trustable -- even before I said a word.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  15. #15
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Don't hold your breath

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Always think when I hear inside source what it means is someone who shouldn't be saying anything or doesn't have the guts to put their name to it.
    I tell you what I can. Don't like it? Not my problem.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Well I wasn't referring to you, but hey if you think it was about you who am I to go against that?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I tell you what I can. Don't like it? Not my problem.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  17. #17
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I tell you what I can. Don't like it? Not my problem.
    Some people just like being malcontent and wanna be rebels, and want others to join them.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  18. #18
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    And some people are overly sensitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    Some people just like being malcontent and wanna be rebels, and want others to join them.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  19. #19
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    And some people are overly sensitive.
    Nope, again wrong. I am not over sensitive, merely highly allergic to BS. This site is given information, as can be released, and you dispute it's authenticity, and then cry out that no one is giving any information. You are willing to believe some hack reporter that couldn't accurately report the weather after looking out the window over people who are involved in the process. First you are upset that they are not releasing more information, and when they do, you question it's validity.
    Last edited by Ezerharden; 03-18-2013 at 02:23 AM.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  20. #20
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Well I wasn't referring to you, but hey if you think it was about you who am I to go against that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    Some people just like being malcontent and wanna be rebels, and want others to join them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    And some people are overly sensitive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    Nope, again wrong. I am not over sensitive, merely highly allergic to BS. This site is given information, as can be released, and you dispute it's authenticity, and then cry out that no one is giving any information. You are willing to believe some hack reporter that couldn't accurately report the weather after looking out the window over people who are involved in the process. First you are upset that they are not releasing more information, and when they do, you question it's validity.
    You guys remind me of the old "pong" game ...blip...take that! Oh yeah take that BLIP!
    Name:  pong.gif
Views: 197
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    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  21. #21
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Don't hold your breath

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    You guys remind me of the old "pong" game ...blip...take that! Oh yeah take that BLIP!
    Name:  pong.gif
Views: 197
Size:  12.6 KB
    Happy we are providing you with amusement.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk 2 please pardon any typo's.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  22. #22
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    Happy we are providing you with amusement.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk 2 please pardon any typo's.
    Just trying to make light out of a "dark" situation. Remember if we're all in the same boat and we shoot holes in the bottom of that boat, we all end up at the bottom together...

    Debate is par for the course, but you guys take it to a whole new level.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  23. #23
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    FreeInAZ, I was pointing out that I have an issue with unnamed sources because of the lack of credibility unnamed has had in the past, was not a slap to Phil or EZ his lap dog.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Just trying to make light out of a "dark" situation. Remember if we're all in the same boat and we shoot holes in the bottom of that boat, we all end up at the bottom together...

    Debate is par for the course, but you guys take it to a whole new level.
    Last edited by Raggs; 03-18-2013 at 06:48 AM.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  24. #24
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    FreeInAZ, I was pointing out that I have an issue with unnamed sources because of the lack of credibility unnamed has had in the past, was not a slap to Phil or EZ his lap dog.
    Lap dog huh? Not bad coming from a cheerleader. Phil and I disagree more than agree most times. As to the "credibility" of unnamed sources, well we listen to you too.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  25. #25
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Don't hold your breath

    And here we go again...hope you guys have a endless supply of duct tape for the bottom of the boat...
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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