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Thread: Michigan's largest teachers' union say the open-carry "loophole" must be closed

  1. #1
    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
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    Michigan's largest teachers' union say the open-carry "loophole" must be closed

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    Last edited by DetroitBiker; 04-26-2013 at 06:48 AM.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    If you pass a low against muder... but it is allowed under that law to kill a man who is sleeping with your wife provided you catch them in the act... then it's not a "murder loophole." It is simply an act allowed by law (or to be more precise, not prohibited by law).

    I am against any change in law where the term "loophole" is used to try and pass it. But then I'm also against any law named after a 'victim' because it is an emotional appeal and not a rational one.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 03-14-2013 at 12:58 PM.

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Idiots, all of them.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Michigan's largest teachers' union say the open-carry "loophole" must be closed

    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  5. #5
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    We need to start referring to PFZ laws as "loopholes in the law that permit only criminals to carry guns".
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Michigan's largest teachers' union say the open-carry "loophole" must be closed

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    We need to start referring to PFZ laws as "loopholes in the law that permit only criminals to carry guns".
    Great idea!
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  7. #7
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    We need to start referring to PFZ laws as "loopholes in the law that permit only criminals to carry guns".
    Or we could call places under 28.425o. what they really are: Places that only prohibit those licensed to carry a concealed pistol from carrying concealed pistols or carrying tasers.
    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited
    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  8. #8
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/M...ls-4353821.php

    This article contains an answer that many people have been seeking for a while.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  9. #9
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Michigan's largest teachers' union say the open-carry "loophole" must be closed

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/M...ls-4353821.php

    This article contains an answer that many people have been seeking for a while.
    Nice to see the MI media thinks this is so important that we get to read about it in a San Fransico publication. Q since you are directly quoted, would you please post your quotes. I ask because many here have the attention spans of a nat on speed.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Nice to see the MI media thinks this is so important that we get to read about it in a San Fransico publication. Q since you are directly quoted, would you please post your quotes. I ask because many here have the attention spans of a nat on speed.
    Huh? What did you say?
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  11. #11
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    I ask because many here have the attention spans of a nat on speed.
    Nah. I try not to facilitate other people's laziness. The article has information in it that many people have spent months butthurting about. If they don't want to read it -- f* em.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  12. #12
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    Huh? What did you say?
    Very slick Ezerharden - well done.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  13. #13
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanM
    We need to start referring to PFZ laws as "loopholes in the law that permit only criminals to carry guns".
    Or we could call places under 28.425o. what they really are: Places that only prohibit those licensed to carry a concealed pistol from carrying concealed pistols or carrying tasers.
    No, I intentionally worded it my way to use the exact same tactic the "open carry loophole" people use. The tactic consists of two parts:
    1)Use the word "loophole" to make it seem there's an error that needs to be fixed.
    2)Frame the "loophole" as allowing something that sensible people would reject ("permit only criminals to carry guns")

    This two-part tactic is used on us all the time by anti-gunners. We should use it as often as possible on them.

    After all, there's a lot of people who want to keep areas prohibiting legal CC, but who in their right mind would oppose getting rid of loopholes that permit only criminals to carry guns in certain places?

    See the difference in how it's presented?

    Yes, it's really just semantics, but semantics have been demonstrated to have real effects on how people answer poll questions, decide on an issue, etc.
    Last edited by DanM; 03-15-2013 at 12:10 PM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  14. #14
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    No, I intentionally worded it my way to use the exact same tactic the "open carry loophole" people use. The tactic consists of two parts:
    1)Use the word "loophole" to make it seem there's an error that needs to be fixed.
    2)Frame the "loophole" as allowing something that sensible people would reject ("permit only criminals to carry guns")

    This two-part tactic is used on us all the time by anti-gunners. We should use it as often as possible on them.

    After all, there's a lot of people who want to keep areas prohibiting legal CC, but who in their right mind would oppose getting rid of loopholes that permit only criminals to carry guns in certain places?

    See the difference in how it's presented?

    Yes, it's really just semantics, but semantics have been demonstrated to have real effects on how people answer poll questions, decide on an issue, etc.
    Quoted for truth!

    And may I suggest folks take a good hard look at the tactics of Obama's hero .. Mr. Saul Alinsky... and start using those same tactics right back at the leftist arguments against rights.

    For those not familiar with Mr. Saul Alinsky and his teachings ... and how Obama is tied into them... please take a moment and follow the link below.

    http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  15. #15
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    We need to start referring to PFZ laws as "loopholes in the law that permit only criminals to carry guns".


    I know he's not losing any sleep about my opinion, but DanM regains a shred of respect from me! Well done.
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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