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Thread: What are YOU going to do about it?

  1. #1
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    What are YOU going to do about it?

    Assume that ALL of the gun control bills passed by the CO House and Senate are signed and go into effect July 1. What are YOU going to do about it? I have an idea. Feel free to critique, criticize or disagree:

    July 1st is a Monday. Starting Monday, and all that week, everyone on this forum who lives in Colorado should open carry his/her AR, HK, FAL, M1, M14 or other long gun with a 20+ magazine (outside Denver of course). Attach a piece of tape to the magazine and clearly write the capacity on the side of the magazine so as to be visible from ordinary observation, ie "30 Rounds". Those without 16+ mags should write "Readily Convertible" on theirs. OCers without detachable mag long guns should carry hand guns with extra mag holders. Those mags/mag holders should also have "Readily Convertible" written on them. If you want to go a step further, buy a plain white T-shirt and a Sharpie and write the message on your shirt. Be creative. Draw attention to yourself. "The wearer of this shirt possesses High Capacity Magazines" "Did I pass a background check for this rifle?" Think of something good to say, but don't incriminate yourself with your statement. The idea is to draw attention to the unenforceable nature of HB1228 and HB1229. If contacted by LE, record the entire encounter with a video camera. Answer every question with a question. Q: "Can I see some ID?" A: "Am I legally required to provide that information?" Q: "What are you doing here?" A: "Am I being detained? / Am I free to go" Q: "Is that your firearm?" A: "Do you have reasonable suspicion that I have or am about to commit a crime?" Q: "Did you acquire that magazine before July 1?" A: "Do you have reason to believe that I did?" Waste their time. Don't give them anything to go on. If you can't think of a good reply to an inquiry always go back to the "Am I being detained" / "Am I free to go" routine. When they finally get tired of you and stop harassing you, wish them a nice day and be on your way. Send the recording to every media outlet you can, every CO House and Senate member and Hickenlooper's office (and here of course).

    If you are threatened with arrest for not providing information, demand to know if the police have "reasonable suspicion that you have or are about to commit a crime". If they say that they do, demand to know what crime you are suspected of and whether that suspicion is based on "specific articulable facts". If they don't relent then you'll have a choice to make: Either give them the information they require, or let them arrest you. If at any point in time they attempt to disarm you, DO NOT RESIST, but make very clear that you do not consent to any searches or seizures.

    Could this work? I don't know, but it's an idea. Disagree? Tell me why. Have a better idea? PLEASE share it. Ok, fire away...
    Last edited by centsi; 03-15-2013 at 11:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    You really have only 4 options-

    1.contact the second ammendmant foundation and other such groups and have them file a class action civil rights suit against colorado for the people of colorado.
    2.get in touch with your local sheriff, thats where the oposition has already started. they know the laws are unconstitutional and i doubt may of them will enforce it, or support enforcement. they are your front line.
    3.mass non-compliance. when hundreds of thousand of citizens stand up and say NO WE WILL NOT COMPLY. unconstitutional laws are not laws and you are under no obligation to obey them. what will they do? demand that 3/4 of the state be arrested? expecially when law enforcement will not comply?
    4. the most obvious one. make sure every one of these traitorous bastards is given the opportunity to seek employment in the private sector come next election...although i really would prefer trying them in a court of law for dereliction of duty and violation of their oath as well as other official misconduct.

    Best of luck! fortunately we have managed to defeat all the stupid control laws they have pushed here in Washignton state so far.
    Last edited by Schlepnier; 03-16-2013 at 01:17 AM.
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

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    I claim no responsibility for the current crop of Colorado government flunkies. I voted against them, voter fraud on Obama's coatails played a large part in putting them there.

    Illegal aliens are invaders and should be treated as such. Our economy is trashed, 12 million people stealing jobs accounts for almost all the unemployed. They may not want to scrub floors, but if Obummer stopped handing out "free money" (our taxes) many of those people would be working jobs "only illegals" would work. Considering they steal many construction jobs, I highly dispute that Americans won't do those jobs anyway (carpentry, drywalling, roofing etc).
    Last edited by Saxxon; 03-21-2013 at 11:05 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    These Marxists have pretty well burned their political bridges behind them. Now they can don their little red berets and Che Guevara T-shirts, and have a big celebration on May Day.

    Sayonara in 2014.

  5. #5
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by centsi View Post
    Disagree? Tell me why. <Snip> Ok, fire away...
    Howdy Centsi!
    Yes, I disagree strongly.
    First, because discussion of long guns is, by the rules of this forum, OFF TOPIC.
    Second, because it can be construed as INTIMIDATION, and as such, provide legitimate RAS to hassle everyone involved.
    You are not simply advocating carrying a firearm but adding stuff to make it more obvious than reasonable, leading to RAS.
    A charge of intimidation could be made, and would stick in court. As such, could land people in jail.
    Doesn't much matter whether you are right or wrong, the costs of fighting a criminal charge could ruin the average citizen.
    Next, we want to win people to our side, not alienate them against us. What do you think the average citizen is going to think of this antic?

    We are just a little over a year away from the next election.
    How about this alternative?
    Start official state petition drives to put the new laws on the ballot for repeal?
    How about class action lawsuits against the legislators who passed this junk?
    How about an information campaign to explain to the average citizen where we are coming from?
    How about supporting no-nonsense gun rights groups such as Rocky Mountain Gun Owners of Colorado?
    How about joining such groups that defend gun rights?
    How about going to party caucus meetings and advancing gun rights as a significant plank in the party platform?
    How about running candidates who can defeat the people presently ensconced in the state house with folks who support our rights?
    Or how about running for office yourself?
    How about continuing to openly carry your sidearm everywhere you go. It is a terrific opportunity to educate your fellow citizens.
    How about being a public speaker and addressing civic groups of all types to inform our fellow citizens about what's going on?
    How about your church? Maybe spreading the word within your congregation that right behind stripping our 2a rights comes loss of 1a rights?

    These are just a few suggestions right of the top of my head at 7:16am on a Saturday morning.
    There are many lucid and potent actions we may take, without putting anybody in jeopardy of intimidating the public, waxing opposition to our cause, or bemoaning our present circumstances. Project 94 is just such an action that can be taken. There are many positive ways to challenge and overturn legislation that has been passed. Constitutional amendment petitions to put on the ballot a measure that the greatest crime that can exist is "breech of the public trust", and hold our elected officials accountable for violating their oath of office with criminal charges? How about a similar measure that reinforces the language of Article 2, Section 13 of our state Constitution? Or how about putting them on notice that we are prepared to put Article 2, sections 1 and 2 on the table? Do you know what those specific sections say? If not, why not?

    What you propose is going to cause trouble for those that try it, possibly get them jailed or charged, and likely to alienate our fellow citizens in such manner as would create more enemies than garner support. There are many better ways to deal with the current issues.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  6. #6
    Regular Member Vader33's Avatar
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    What are YOU going to do about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Centsi!
    Yes, I disagree strongly.
    First, because discussion of long guns is, by the rules of this forum, OFF TOPIC.
    Second, because it can be construed as INTIMIDATION, and as such, provide legitimate RAS to hassle everyone involved.
    You are not simply advocating carrying a firearm but adding stuff to make it more obvious than reasonable, leading to RAS.
    A charge of intimidation could be made, and would stick in court. As such, could land people in jail.
    Doesn't much matter whether you are right or wrong, the costs of fighting a criminal charge could ruin the average citizen.
    Next, we want to win people to our side, not alienate them against us. What do you think the average citizen is going to think of this antic?

    We are just a little over a year away from the next election.
    How about this alternative?
    Start official state petition drives to put the new laws on the ballot for repeal?
    How about class action lawsuits against the legislators who passed this junk?
    How about an information campaign to explain to the average citizen where we are coming from?
    How about supporting no-nonsense gun rights groups such as Rocky Mountain Gun Owners of Colorado?
    How about joining such groups that defend gun rights?
    How about going to party caucus meetings and advancing gun rights as a significant plank in the party platform?
    How about running candidates who can defeat the people presently ensconced in the state house with folks who support our rights?
    Or how about running for office yourself?
    How about continuing to openly carry your sidearm everywhere you go. It is a terrific opportunity to educate your fellow citizens.
    How about being a public speaker and addressing civic groups of all types to inform our fellow citizens about what's going on?
    How about your church? Maybe spreading the word within your congregation that right behind stripping our 2a rights comes loss of 1a rights?

    These are just a few suggestions right of the top of my head at 7:16am on a Saturday morning.
    There are many lucid and potent actions we may take, without putting anybody in jeopardy of intimidating the public, waxing opposition to our cause, or bemoaning our present circumstances. Project 94 is just such an action that can be taken. There are many positive ways to challenge and overturn legislation that has been passed. Constitutional amendment petitions to put on the ballot a measure that the greatest crime that can exist is "breech of the public trust", and hold our elected officials accountable for violating their oath of office with criminal charges? How about a similar measure that reinforces the language of Article 2, Section 13 of our state Constitution? Or how about putting them on notice that we are prepared to put Article 2, sections 1 and 2 on the table? Do you know what those specific sections say? If not, why not?

    What you propose is going to cause trouble for those that try it, possibly get them jailed or charged, and likely to alienate our fellow citizens in such manner as would create more enemies than garner support. There are many better ways to deal with the current issues.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    +eleventy billion


    We have to stand together and show those who put these uneducated laws together that we're smarter. We can't take to the streets like a posse of Wild West bandits.

    M-tal, I know you're no stranger to public gatherings and stirring up the pot just enough to make a point without being ridiculous. I'd have no problem standing with you and whoever else to take our rights back.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader33 View Post
    +eleventy billion


    We have to stand together and show those who put these uneducated laws together that we're smarter. We can't take to the streets like a posse of Wild West bandits.

    M-tal, I know you're no stranger to public gatherings and stirring up the pot just enough to make a point without being ridiculous. I'd have no problem standing with you and whoever else to take our rights back.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    What is a petition going to do at this point -- you are petitioning the same people who voted for the bills .. duh.


    Now Colorado does allow for recall elections .... one thing not noted .. you have 60 days to get one circulated; not many states allow for such a avenue to address crazy legislators ...

    And the post is not intimidation IMO...


    Some things posted in the OP's post appear to be sound ideas ... I figure that many in CO are not going to do everything that the bills propose.

    when swat teams start descending upon households folks will become more aggressive ...

  8. #8
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    A referendum petition will put the question on the 2014 Colorado ballot to repeal this nonsense.

    An initiative petition to the effect that magazine capacity is an issue better left to those who actually design and manufacture such accessories for the firearms market.

    PETITION TOPIC: THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED- PERIOD. Not MODIFIED, not RESTRICTED, not a subject for General Assembly regulation as long as the RIGHT is not abused for criminal purposes.
    "Extremism ALWAYS brings about its own destruction " ( Sir Edmund Burke)

    Jim Sherwood

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    A referendum petition will put the question on the 2014 Colorado ballot to repeal this nonsense.

    An initiative petition to the effect that magazine capacity is an issue better left to those who actually design and manufacture such accessories for the firearms market.

    PETITION TOPIC: THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED- PERIOD. Not MODIFIED, not RESTRICTED, not a subject for General Assembly regulation as long as the RIGHT is not abused for criminal purposes.
    Doesn't your petition idea support the claim that they can pass laws to regulate? Just sayin...

  10. #10
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    In Colorado there is a ballot petition process. Our state Constitution can be amended by ballot initiative which starts with a petition to get it on the ballot - the recent marijuana legalization being an example. Frankly I think it winds up cluttering the Constitution with a lot of contemporary issues that legislatures are too stupid, or nefarious to handle properly.

    There is at least one, perhaps two, ballot initiatives to amend the Constitution to nullify laws like the magazine limit. I've actually tried a couple times to find out the people behind it and talk to them as it would be prudent to make the working such that it forbids the state from restricting the type of arms and accessories that may be born. IE, the state can say you are prohibited from owning firearms based on your actions, but they can't forbid the type of firearm you own if not. To make a ballot initiative solely on magazines is what a referred to above as trivialization; what is needed is clarification on our Colorado "2nd Amendment" to define it clearly as an unqualified right in terms of material you can possess (ie current law to date has been anything you can own federally is legal in Colorado, as it should be).

    Now what would really be an improvement is making it a crime to legislate or officially impair someone's right to bear arms in any manner based on a person's material possessions legal under the Constitution. Thus, Rhonda Fields et al would (again) be a criminal for violating that section of the Constitution. THAT would be putting some teeth in the limitation on government over-reach, something that is sorely needed.

  11. #11
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    I plan on taking part in the high capacity magazine swap on the capitol steps on July 1st. Civil disobedience.

    How many people here are willing to actually put something on the line to defend your freedom?

  12. #12
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/09...-wait-for.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie Robinson
    I respectfully remind you sir, that we have been the most patient of all people. When you said we must have self-respect, I wondered how we could have self-respect and remain patient considering the treatment accorded us through the years.

    17 million African Americanes cannot do as you suggest and wait for the hearts of men to change. We want to enjoy now the rights that we feel we are entitled to as Americans. This we cannot do unless we pursue aggressively goals which all other Americans achieved over 150 years ago.

    As the chief executive of our nation, I respectfully suggest that you unwittingly crush the spirit of freedom in African Americanes by constantly urging forbearance and give hope to those pro-segregation leaders like Governor Faubus who would take from us even those freedoms we now enjoy. Your own experience with Governor Faubus is proof enough that forbearance and not eventual integration is the goal the pro-segregation leaders seek.

    In my view, an unequivocal statement backed up by action such as you demonstrated you could take last fall in dealing with Governor Faubus if it became necessary, would let it be known that America is determined to provide—in the near future—for African Americanes—the freedoms we are entitled to under the constitution.




    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Centsi!
    Yes, I disagree strongly.
    First, because discussion of long guns is, by the rules of this forum, OFF TOPIC.
    Second, because it can be construed as INTIMIDATION, and as such, provide legitimate RAS to hassle everyone involved.
    You are not simply advocating carrying a firearm but adding stuff to make it more obvious than reasonable, leading to RAS.
    A charge of intimidation could be made, and would stick in court. As such, could land people in jail.
    Doesn't much matter whether you are right or wrong, the costs of fighting a criminal charge could ruin the average citizen.
    Next, we want to win people to our side, not alienate them against us. What do you think the average citizen is going to think of this antic?

    We are just a little over a year away from the next election.
    How about this alternative?
    Start official state petition drives to put the new laws on the ballot for repeal?
    How about class action lawsuits against the legislators who passed this junk?
    How about an information campaign to explain to the average citizen where we are coming from?
    How about supporting no-nonsense gun rights groups such as Rocky Mountain Gun Owners of Colorado?
    How about joining such groups that defend gun rights?
    How about going to party caucus meetings and advancing gun rights as a significant plank in the party platform?
    How about running candidates who can defeat the people presently ensconced in the state house with folks who support our rights?
    Or how about running for office yourself?
    How about continuing to openly carry your sidearm everywhere you go. It is a terrific opportunity to educate your fellow citizens.
    How about being a public speaker and addressing civic groups of all types to inform our fellow citizens about what's going on?
    How about your church? Maybe spreading the word within your congregation that right behind stripping our 2a rights comes loss of 1a rights?

    These are just a few suggestions right of the top of my head at 7:16am on a Saturday morning.
    There are many lucid and potent actions we may take, without putting anybody in jeopardy of intimidating the public, waxing opposition to our cause, or bemoaning our present circumstances. Project 94 is just such an action that can be taken. There are many positive ways to challenge and overturn legislation that has been passed. Constitutional amendment petitions to put on the ballot a measure that the greatest crime that can exist is "breech of the public trust", and hold our elected officials accountable for violating their oath of office with criminal charges? How about a similar measure that reinforces the language of Article 2, Section 13 of our state Constitution? Or how about putting them on notice that we are prepared to put Article 2, sections 1 and 2 on the table? Do you know what those specific sections say? If not, why not?

    What you propose is going to cause trouble for those that try it, possibly get them jailed or charged, and likely to alienate our fellow citizens in such manner as would create more enemies than garner support. There are many better ways to deal with the current issues.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by sharkey; 04-04-2013 at 02:41 AM.
    "Public opinion and votes have nothing to do with this. The challenge of the Court is not what they're going to do with votes. The challenge-- of the Court is are they going to protect people's rights." - Al Sharpton


  13. #13
    Regular Member Alamo Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Centsi!
    Yes, I disagree strongly.
    First, because discussion of long guns is, by the rules of this forum, OFF TOPIC.
    Second, because it can be construed as INTIMIDATION, and as such, provide legitimate RAS to hassle everyone involved.
    You are not simply advocating carrying a firearm but adding stuff to make it more obvious than reasonable, leading to RAS.
    A charge of intimidation could be made, and would stick in court. As such, could land people in jail.
    Doesn't much matter whether you are right or wrong, the costs of fighting a criminal charge could ruin the average citizen.
    Next, we want to win people to our side, not alienate them against us. What do you think the average citizen is going to think of this antic?
    ---------------BS----------------- You have no idea how much I'd love to write that out longform.


    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    We are just a little over a year away from the next election.
    How about this alternative?
    Start official state petition drives to put the new laws on the ballot for repeal?
    How about class action lawsuits against the legislators who passed this junk?
    How about an information campaign to explain to the average citizen where we are coming from?
    How about supporting no-nonsense gun rights groups such as Rocky Mountain Gun Owners of Colorado?
    How about joining such groups that defend gun rights?
    How about going to party caucus meetings and advancing gun rights as a significant plank in the party platform?
    How about running candidates who can defeat the people presently ensconced in the state house with folks who support our rights?
    Or how about running for office yourself?
    How about continuing to openly carry your sidearm everywhere you go. It is a terrific opportunity to educate your fellow citizens.
    How about being a public speaker and addressing civic groups of all types to inform our fellow citizens about what's going on?
    How about your church? Maybe spreading the word within your congregation that right behind stripping our 2a rights comes loss of 1a rights?

    Put this in your pipe and smoke it: all this s*** has already been tried. Many flippin' times. By many generations.
    Enough is enough. Concealed carry, open carry, long gun carry; it's all the same.

    Point is, it's my friggin' choice, and no other's. Think I'll bow and scrape for a few measly spectres of freedom?

    You're dead wrong.
    Last edited by Alamo Jack; 04-04-2013 at 09:26 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Centsi!
    Yes, I disagree strongly.
    First, because discussion of long guns is, by the rules of this forum, OFF TOPIC.
    Second, because it can be construed as INTIMIDATION, and as such, provide legitimate RAS to hassle everyone involved.
    You are not simply advocating carrying a firearm but adding stuff to make it more obvious than reasonable, leading to RAS.
    A charge of intimidation could be made, and would stick in court. As such, could land people in jail.
    Doesn't much matter whether you are right or wrong, the costs of fighting a criminal charge could ruin the average citizen.
    Next, we want to win people to our side, not alienate them against us. What do you think the average citizen is going to think of this antic?

    We are just a little over a year away from the next election.
    How about this alternative?
    Start official state petition drives to put the new laws on the ballot for repeal?
    How about class action lawsuits against the legislators who passed this junk?
    How about an information campaign to explain to the average citizen where we are coming from?
    How about supporting no-nonsense gun rights groups such as Rocky Mountain Gun Owners of Colorado?
    How about joining such groups that defend gun rights?
    How about going to party caucus meetings and advancing gun rights as a significant plank in the party platform?
    How about running candidates who can defeat the people presently ensconced in the state house with folks who support our rights?
    Or how about running for office yourself?
    How about continuing to openly carry your sidearm everywhere you go. It is a terrific opportunity to educate your fellow citizens.
    How about being a public speaker and addressing civic groups of all types to inform our fellow citizens about what's going on?
    How about your church? Maybe spreading the word within your congregation that right behind stripping our 2a rights comes loss of 1a rights?

    These are just a few suggestions right of the top of my head at 7:16am on a Saturday morning.
    There are many lucid and potent actions we may take, without putting anybody in jeopardy of intimidating the public, waxing opposition to our cause, or bemoaning our present circumstances. Project 94 is just such an action that can be taken. There are many positive ways to challenge and overturn legislation that has been passed. Constitutional amendment petitions to put on the ballot a measure that the greatest crime that can exist is "breech of the public trust", and hold our elected officials accountable for violating their oath of office with criminal charges? How about a similar measure that reinforces the language of Article 2, Section 13 of our state Constitution? Or how about putting them on notice that we are prepared to put Article 2, sections 1 and 2 on the table? Do you know what those specific sections say? If not, why not?

    What you propose is going to cause trouble for those that try it, possibly get them jailed or charged, and likely to alienate our fellow citizens in such manner as would create more enemies than garner support. There are many better ways to deal with the current issues.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    I appreciate the reply; sorry I'm late with mine. You are correct about the forum rules regarding long guns. I never knew about that stipulation for OCDO and I find it somewhat silly, but you are correct. As far as OCing being construed as Intimidation, that is only a matter of degrees. I'm certain that some folks have been intimidated by my OC'd long gun, but they have also been so by my OC'd handgun, my dogs and even my speech, though probably not by my physique . Someone may be similarly intimidated a manner of dress, appearance, speech, belief, etc, but those are not factors that can be taken into account in developing RAS. The "Reasonable" in Reasonable, Articulable Suspicion has nothing to do with my actions. The reasonableness of my actions are not in question; their legality is. One may think it reasonable to OC a .25 Auto and another may think that nothing less than a Barrett .50 is reasonable. The "Reasonable" is whether a "reasonable person/reasonable office" evaluating the facts and circumstances would conclude that a crime had or was about to take place. If the alleged crime in question is illegal possession of a firearm or high-cap mag, the degree of that possession is irrelevant.

    Admittedly one could accomplish the same point I was trying to make with EITHER a firearm OR hi-cap mags, and wouldn't have to use both. It would probably garner less attention, both good and bad. In any case, I do agree with most of your suggestions on alternative actions. Some will be more or less effective depending on the circumstance, but they are all good things to consider. Thank you.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    How about signing the petition to remove those members of the legislature for whom petitions have been started? All they need is 25k signatures and they're OUTTA there. Great message to the rest of the anti-gun leeches.

    How about stop voting along party lines and start voting along Constitutional lines?

    How about campaigning AGAINST everyone who voted for the recent gun control legislation?

    How about writing letters to the editor until you're published? Then, wait 30 days, and start writing again.

    Just some fresh ideas.

    I strongly concur with M-Taliesin, however, that OCing long guns is NOT a fruitful approach, and will almost certainly backfire should enough people engage in it on a regular basis. Look what happened in California. Don't forget that Colorado isn't that far behind California, politically speaking.
    Last edited by since9; 05-21-2013 at 01:21 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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