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Thread: NRA and open carry

  1. #1
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    NRA and open carry

    Not sure where to post this ,but I would like to know if the NRA is helping in the fight agianst the open carry restrictions in california.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tracker51 View Post
    Not sure where to post this ,but I would like to know if the NRA is helping in the fight agianst the open carry restrictions in california.
    NRA is CC organization, they push only for OC when it is tied to CC, look at their latest accomplishments. While some applaud the recent new states into the Open Carry privilege instead of a right, IMO it is a step backwards. NRA makes big money off of concealed carry, constitutional open carry is venom to them. It is the reason I cannot support or be a NRA member as well as other anti constitutional open carry organizations.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 03-16-2013 at 05:19 PM.
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    I don't know about California, but the NRA showed no interest when I pointed out numerous grave errors about OC in Alabama in their legal summary. They lost me forever that day.

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    Regular Member Talesman's Avatar
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    The folks over at:
    http://blog.californiarighttocarry.org/
    seen to think the NRA is a huge impediment to OC.

    Ditto for many folks in FL as they have yet to even acknowledge the folks looking for the restoraration of that right. And some say that the NRA has worked to stop OC in a behind-the-scenes manner.

    Reading between the lines over time one cannot help but feel the NRA isn't anyone's friend when it comes to OC anywhere. Then again. if all the states had OC, they wouldn't have a need to exist.
    Last edited by Talesman; 03-17-2013 at 08:25 PM.

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    Re: NRA and open carry

    About a year ago I was ready to have a bill allowing open carry in non home rule areas of Illinois. Because it wouldn't effect Chicago or Cook County, it would have had a better than even chance of passing. The NRA lobbyist in Illinois told me he would make sure it would be killed. He said it would interfere with their plans.

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    Re: NRA and open carry

    I am an outcast from IllinoisCarry.com because of my outspoken support for open carry.


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    Last edited by kurt555gs; 03-17-2013 at 10:41 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    In California it was EXREMELY dissapointing that Cal Guns was so publically opposed to open carry.

    I have been banned a few times from their forum simply for standing up for open carry.

    It just seems no gun rights group with any influence support open carry.

    It was shocking and disgusting how Cal Guns and their members attack open carriers worse than the Brady Bunch loonies.
    Because there is a lot more money to be made in concealed carry privilege cards. RKBA/Open Carry is kryptonite to their bank accounts.
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    Re: NRA and open carry

    I think that asking the anti's for the privilege of concealed carry without the right of open carry as a foundation is short sighted at best.

    Carthago Delenda Est

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    Re: NRA and open carry

    I have a lot of respect for Todd. He never explained why he told me he would kill any open carry legislation that I would have put forward at the time. I am hoping he won't oppose an open carry on a FOID card bill that I intend to put forward after all this concealed carry mess is finished.

    I hope it was just timing in the past and not a blatantly anti open carry attitude that some other 2A groups in Illinois seem to have.



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    Let's be honest here. The NRA is not pro- OC because the general public still views it as atypical. While amazing strides have been made normalizing OC, it is still far from commonly accepted. The NRA is not going to get behind something they think may scare the general sheeple. There is also the fact they view it as decisive. We've all been on other gun centric sites and seen the general reaction when OC is brought up. I will say I have seen more and more acceptance for OC over the years, but there are still plenty who believe CC is the ONLY way to carry(and many of them belong to the NRA according to their signature line).

    The NRA is the "old guard" plain and simple. They do not want to rock the boat on certain issues. The leave that to the newer gun rights groups like GOA and SAF, but don't think for a minute they won't sign on if it looks like some case is going to go our way and there will be good press to be had.
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    Open carry is an expression of civil rights. Concealed carry is primarily a means of self defense. And never the twain shall meet. When open carry is brought up on other forums, the same "objections" keep popping up. Like, it's not a good tactical strategy, or there should be a laws requiring retention holsters, or you open carriers upset the sheeple and make it hard for us concealed carry folks to pass better laws. They are not thinking of civil rights, they are thinking of themselves. I don't know any open carry proponents that wish to deny concealed carry. The reverse is sadly not the case.

    We are talking about civil rights, and they only hear their own interpretation. Civil rights supporters are always out on the fringe, no matter what the cause.
    Last edited by kurt555gs; 03-18-2013 at 10:33 AM.

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    NRA and open carry

    OC is also defensive carry. IMO, it is more defensive than CC because it has a deterrent aspect and requires less fumbling if deployment becomes necessary.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SavageOne View Post
    Let's be honest here. The NRA is not pro- OC because the general public still views it as atypical. While amazing strides have been made normalizing OC, it is still far from commonly accepted. The NRA is not going to get behind something they think may scare the general sheeple. There is also the fact they view it as decisive. We've all been on other gun centric sites and seen the general reaction when OC is brought up. I will say I have seen more and more acceptance for OC over the years, but there are still plenty who believe CC is the ONLY way to carry(and many of them belong to the NRA according to their signature line).

    The NRA is the "old guard" plain and simple. They do not want to rock the boat on certain issues. The leave that to the newer gun rights groups like GOA and SAF, but don't think for a minute they won't sign on if it looks like some case is going to go our way and there will be good press to be had.
    I think you meant "divisive" here. I agree with everything else you said.

    We won the war against the FUDDs (gun owners who believe in the 2nd amendment, as long as you own guns they approve of).

    We'll win the war against the OC FUDDs (gun owners who believe in the 2nd amendment, as long as you carry their way i.e. CC).
    Last edited by FTG-05; 03-18-2013 at 02:53 PM.

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    Re: NRA and open carry

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    OC is also defensive carry. IMO, it is more defensive than CC because it has a deterrent aspect and requires less fumbling if deployment becomes necessary.


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    I agree

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    NRA = sell outs.

    there are other organizations that are no compromise. join them

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Because there is a lot more money to be made in concealed carry privilege cards. RKBA/Open Carry is kryptonite to their bank accounts.
    that, and pieces of paper, licenses, badges, etc... make people feel special and better than someone else. if oc levels the field, they are against it.

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    In the NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home course, it teaches that handgun holsters MUST properly conceal the handgun.

    I tell my students the truth instead.
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    C2i2

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Because there is a lot more money to be made in concealed carry privilege cards. RKBA/Open Carry is kryptonite to their bank accounts.
    We used to use an acronym for this:

    C2I2

    Concealed Carry Instruction Industry.

    It is an acronym often used with P4P.

    For example: The C2I2 is the biggest proponent of P4P.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    OC is also defensive carry. IMO, it is more defensive than CC because it has a deterrent aspect and requires less fumbling if deployment becomes necessary.


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    I totally agree.

    Also, requiring concealment could easily prevent someone from carrying at all in, say, the Texas summer heat. I can't afford to purchase multiple holsters and multiple firearms just to keep it concealed so I don't "scare" somebody, and even if I could afford it I shouldn't have to compromise on barrel length or caliber or magazine capacity just because of my size and frame... Requiring concealment may not seem like a big deal to some people, but for others it could easily become unreasonably restrictive.

    And that also comes into play with the fumbling to deploy. It's already harder to deploy being concealed at all. Add that with some setups it could require two hands to draw in a reasonable amount of time, which could prevent you from performing a proper defensive draw, such as when someone is swinging something at you. Add also that if you are of small size and frame, you'll have to position your pistol in even deeper cover, making it even more inaccessible, and perhaps even preventing you from being able to draw at all with a full grip on the pistol (I forget the technical term for this).

    Now tell me again CCers, how much more tactical is concealed carry?
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 06-08-2013 at 09:38 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I never liked conceal carry, in the summer it is hot, in the winter if you need your gun it is hard to get to.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    I been NRA life member for about 41 years.

    I was in the Neal Knoxs faction. I always believed that the NRA talked a lot did little because they were into making money.

    Once you established constitutional carry and it becomes the norm they loose a huge amount of power and cash.

    They now revert back to a target shooting, hunting, training organization that has limited membership and power.

    A lot of the NRAs top people still believe only the right people should have guns and only they should have the right type of guns.

    They seem to have improved a little bit the last several years but they still are a bit slow on supporting full constitutional carry rights.

    Are they the best no are they the worse no, can they be better yes and they can improve, we just have to keep the pressure on them.

    I support carrying your firearm ay way you want open, concealed, loaded, unloaded as long as your safe and are not committing crimes with it.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 06-09-2013 at 07:16 AM.
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    The fact is that NRA is shooting themselves in the foot when they push an CCW lawsuit and political agenda without also recognizing Open carrying. SCOTUS and most appeals courts have stated that CCW can be restricted, or outright banned, but that OC'n is the "lawful mode of carry". Just because the public doesnt like Open carrying, doesnt mean much to the courts. The courts have a black and white idea on the lawful "mode of carry". To them, CCW is "bad" and OC is "good". As long as NRA, and CALGUNS keep losing in federal court on the CCW issue, it makes the ability to even open carry a gun that much harder to occur, thereby getting EVERYTHING banned.

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    I think WalkingWolf is right, there is no money to be made if you carry with no special permission slip from the government.

    While they claim to support the right, there isn't a lot of support for exercising that right, unless you've asked for permission like a good peasant and paid the fees.
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    Another problem is that some states require you to purchase a permission slip to OC, and some states require permission to buy guns and ammo.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    We had an OC table at a gun show the weekend before last.....right next to NRA, who kept arguing for CC, but their booth was so slow compared to ours they spent most their time at our table....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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