Thread: NRA and open carry
Not sure where to post this ,but I would like to know if the NRA is helping in the fight agianst the open carry restrictions in california.
Last edited by WalkingWolf; 03-16-2013 at 04:19 PM.
Originally Posted by Primus
I don't know about California, but the NRA showed no interest when I pointed out numerous grave errors about OC in Alabama in their legal summary. They lost me forever that day.
The folks over at:
seen to think the NRA is a huge impediment to OC.
Ditto for many folks in FL as they have yet to even acknowledge the folks looking for the restoraration of that right. And some say that the NRA has worked to stop OC in a behind-the-scenes manner.
Reading between the lines over time one cannot help but feel the NRA isn't anyone's friend when it comes to OC anywhere. Then again. if all the states had OC, they wouldn't have a need to exist.
Last edited by Talesman; 03-17-2013 at 07:25 PM.
About a year ago I was ready to have a bill allowing open carry in non home rule areas of Illinois. Because it wouldn't effect Chicago or Cook County, it would have had a better than even chance of passing. The NRA lobbyist in Illinois told me he would make sure it would be killed. He said it would interfere with their plans.
Carthago Delenda Est
I am an outcast from IllinoisCarry.com because of my outspoken support for open carry.
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Last edited by kurt555gs; 03-17-2013 at 09:41 PM.
I think that asking the anti's for the privilege of concealed carry without the right of open carry as a foundation is short sighted at best.
Carthago Delenda Est
Kurt - the NRA lobbyist you mention - would that be Todd Van -(something)? If so, he was at the IGold rally on March 6th.
If you look at the assortment of products they carry in their "store", all of the stuff involving firearms is geared towards CC (vests, shirts, bags, etc.).
I have a lot of respect for Todd. He never explained why he told me he would kill any open carry legislation that I would have put forward at the time. I am hoping he won't oppose an open carry on a FOID card bill that I intend to put forward after all this concealed carry mess is finished.
I hope it was just timing in the past and not a blatantly anti open carry attitude that some other 2A groups in Illinois seem to have.
Carthago Delenda Est
Let's be honest here. The NRA is not pro- OC because the general public still views it as atypical. While amazing strides have been made normalizing OC, it is still far from commonly accepted. The NRA is not going to get behind something they think may scare the general sheeple. There is also the fact they view it as decisive. We've all been on other gun centric sites and seen the general reaction when OC is brought up. I will say I have seen more and more acceptance for OC over the years, but there are still plenty who believe CC is the ONLY way to carry(and many of them belong to the NRA according to their signature line).
The NRA is the "old guard" plain and simple. They do not want to rock the boat on certain issues. The leave that to the newer gun rights groups like GOA and SAF, but don't think for a minute they won't sign on if it looks like some case is going to go our way and there will be good press to be had.
AUDE VIDE TACE
Open carry is an expression of civil rights. Concealed carry is primarily a means of self defense. And never the twain shall meet. When open carry is brought up on other forums, the same "objections" keep popping up. Like, it's not a good tactical strategy, or there should be a laws requiring retention holsters, or you open carriers upset the sheeple and make it hard for us concealed carry folks to pass better laws. They are not thinking of civil rights, they are thinking of themselves. I don't know any open carry proponents that wish to deny concealed carry. The reverse is sadly not the case.
We are talking about civil rights, and they only hear their own interpretation. Civil rights supporters are always out on the fringe, no matter what the cause.
Last edited by kurt555gs; 03-18-2013 at 09:33 AM.
OC is also defensive carry. IMO, it is more defensive than CC because it has a deterrent aspect and requires less fumbling if deployment becomes necessary.
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We won the war against the FUDDs (gun owners who believe in the 2nd amendment, as long as you own guns they approve of).
We'll win the war against the OC FUDDs (gun owners who believe in the 2nd amendment, as long as you carry their way i.e. CC).
Last edited by FTG-05; 03-18-2013 at 01:53 PM.
NRA = sell outs.
there are other organizations that are no compromise. join them
In the NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home course, it teaches that handgun holsters MUST properly conceal the handgun.
I tell my students the truth instead.
"It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip
He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty
The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776
Also, requiring concealment could easily prevent someone from carrying at all in, say, the Texas summer heat. I can't afford to purchase multiple holsters and multiple firearms just to keep it concealed so I don't "scare" somebody, and even if I could afford it I shouldn't have to compromise on barrel length or caliber or magazine capacity just because of my size and frame... Requiring concealment may not seem like a big deal to some people, but for others it could easily become unreasonably restrictive.
And that also comes into play with the fumbling to deploy. It's already harder to deploy being concealed at all. Add that with some setups it could require two hands to draw in a reasonable amount of time, which could prevent you from performing a proper defensive draw, such as when someone is swinging something at you. Add also that if you are of small size and frame, you'll have to position your pistol in even deeper cover, making it even more inaccessible, and perhaps even preventing you from being able to draw at all with a full grip on the pistol (I forget the technical term for this).
Now tell me again CCers, how much more tactical is concealed carry?
Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 06-08-2013 at 08:38 PM.
I never liked conceal carry, in the summer it is hot, in the winter if you need your gun it is hard to get to.
Originally Posted by Primus
I been NRA life member for about 41 years.
I was in the Neal Knoxs faction. I always believed that the NRA talked a lot did little because they were into making money.
Once you established constitutional carry and it becomes the norm they loose a huge amount of power and cash.
They now revert back to a target shooting, hunting, training organization that has limited membership and power.
A lot of the NRAs top people still believe only the right people should have guns and only they should have the right type of guns.
They seem to have improved a little bit the last several years but they still are a bit slow on supporting full constitutional carry rights.
Are they the best no are they the worse no, can they be better yes and they can improve, we just have to keep the pressure on them.
I support carrying your firearm ay way you want open, concealed, loaded, unloaded as long as your safe and are not committing crimes with it.
Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 06-09-2013 at 06:16 AM.
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The fact is that NRA is shooting themselves in the foot when they push an CCW lawsuit and political agenda without also recognizing Open carrying. SCOTUS and most appeals courts have stated that CCW can be restricted, or outright banned, but that OC'n is the "lawful mode of carry". Just because the public doesnt like Open carrying, doesnt mean much to the courts. The courts have a black and white idea on the lawful "mode of carry". To them, CCW is "bad" and OC is "good". As long as NRA, and CALGUNS keep losing in federal court on the CCW issue, it makes the ability to even open carry a gun that much harder to occur, thereby getting EVERYTHING banned.
I think WalkingWolf is right, there is no money to be made if you carry with no special permission slip from the government.
While they claim to support the right, there isn't a lot of support for exercising that right, unless you've asked for permission like a good peasant and paid the fees.
What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade
Another problem is that some states require you to purchase a permission slip to OC, and some states require permission to buy guns and ammo.
"The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
"Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux