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Thread: How do you justify OC?

  1. #1
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
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    How do you justify OC?

    Hey guys!

    I was curious since i have been asked to justify why i choose to OC vs CC, why you guys OC instead of CC. i have a good buddy that is CC only. I asked why and he said the same thing I always hear. The famed "element of surprise". Then he said another thing that I really hate to hear. Something to the effect of "I wish someone would try and rob the store I'm in"....

    He asked why I choose to OC. I said well I don't want the element of surprise. I don't want to be a victim in the first place. I feel OC is a detterent. He also chooses to carry with an empty chamber. That's another debate tho.

    The other day another friend who is a local cop suggested I get my CHP. To which I said I don't feel the need to pay for something I can already do. Once you pay for it and receive permission, its a privilege, not a right. (He then told me how putting my Glock in my glove compartment was concealed and I would be arrested. I argued then he said oh well maybe as long as its unloaded. Again I argued and showed him the cites, letter from the AG, and court cases. He was enlightened and appreciative.)

    So my question is this. What are your reasons for OC vs CC? This is not a debate about which is better!!! All I'm saying is if someone says, "why don't you go get your CHP"? What do you say?

    I say I don't want to pay for something I already have the right to do.
    OC is a crime deterrent.
    I choose to OC.
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I've never felt the need to justify something I didn't think was offensive.

    Now, concealing? That's another story, why would anyone want to conceal something? Robbers and thugs conceal, riverboat gamblers conceal, people who are up to no good conceal.

  3. #3
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    I agree with the deterrent part. I don't want to finish a violent crime, but keep it from starting in the first place. Criminals don't want a fair fight, they want weak, and easy. "Give me your wallet!" Wait, can I pull my concealed gun out?" For me it's also a matter of how I dress. I usually wear a polo shirt tucked in, where would I conceal a Govt 1911 in a paddle holster? Even when I wear a jacket, I usually have it tucked under the holster for easier access. It's amazing how the CC only people will bash the heck out of the OC people, whereas the OC people just say whatever makes you happy.
    Last edited by golddigger14s; 03-18-2013 at 03:40 PM.
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  4. #4
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    I actually had someone ask why I OC and not CC....... I said "It's legal and I want to".

    He didn't have much else to say.

  5. #5
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
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    Great answers so far. Just what I wanted, not a "OC is Better than CC" argument.

    I like that you bring up now criminals want weak and easy. I listened as my ole lady explained this to someone before I had a chance! Someone said "what if the guy behind you at 7-11 wants to rob the place? He's gonna grab your gun, shoot you to get you out of the way and then what?

    She said, "first off, criminals don't want to work for their take. That's why they are criminals. If a criminal sees a man in line with a gun, they are going to leave to find an easier target. There's plenty out there. Secondly, he has a Serpa holster which requires certain actions before the gun will release from the holster. The instant there is a tug on his gun the perps nose will be broken and probly his wrist."

    I was so proud lol...

    It is so strange that most CC people aggressively oppose OC. OC'ers always seem to have a "to each his own" mentality. I do like the analogy about criminals concealing lol
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  6. #6
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    I don't have to justify it. It is precisely the Right as envisioned by the folks who penned the document that protects it.

    Covering the firearm is a second act not necessary to the first act, carry. I don't care one way or the other if concealment is justified or not, allowed or not, licensed or not, etc. As long as my carry is unfettered, I'll carry and not worry about being told I may not conceal.

    Unfortunately, my right is quite fettered by the need for a license to carry in a car, in a bar (even if I am not drinking), and in hard-to-identify GFSZ. Fix these in OH, and couldn't give a rat's ass about licenses and concealment.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    I've never felt the need to justify something I didn't think was offensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    I agree with the deterrent part.
    This is Truth. I get the "question" every now and then. I explain that most people don't notice. Those who do come in several categories.
    1. the BG- they don't approach and that is fine
    2. the closet Patriot- approaches and says "hey I am glad to see somebody exercising their 2A"
    3. the concealed guy- "Hey I am carrying too, just concealed" (not anymore bud)
    4. The anti "A" he/she runs off in a huff
    4. The anti "B" he/she has to give you a piece of their mind( they cannot really afford that) and tell you how you are scaring the children.
    5. The listener- The guy that is actually interested in why you carry OC.

    Me, I just carry, like a wallet or keys to the car. Don't need them till you need them.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Seeing as how the OP is in Virginia, there is no "need " to justify OC. It is the legal default carry condition. CC is a privilege controlled by the government.

    As for "justifying" OC vs. CC? Why? Different strokes for different folks, and all that. If your friend dislikes OC to the point that they do not want to be around the OP when he OCs, then my considered opinion is that they are not a friend and also not someone I want to be acquainted with. If they choose to :bad mouth" the OP's decision on how to legally carry a handgun, then it is also my considered opinion is that they are not a friend and also not someone I want to be acquainted with.

    Now, if they would like to discuss the differences between OC and CC, and the tactical advantages/disadvanteges of either, draw up a chair, get out the popcorn and let's start in on it! I'm not looking to change their mind, and I hope thwey are not going to try and change mine.

    stay safe.
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  9. #9
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    Just like a driver's license.... does not require one to justify why they are riding a bicycle or walking INSTEAD of driving!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  10. #10
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    If a cop stops you on a bicycle, he will ask you for a driver's license.

    If a cop stops you OC, he will ask you for your CHL.

    Not sayin' that they should--or that you need one or must show it, just sayin' that the parallels are spooky.

  11. #11
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
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    All great thoughts.

    Perhaps justify wasn't the word I was looking for. It seems everyone got the point tho.

    My buddy who only CC's is a great guy and a good friend. He absolutely respects my right and choice to OC, its just not for him. Which is A-OK! We go shooting together as well as drink and hang out together when ever possible.

    I think MSG hit the nail on the head with the groups that ask "the question". I like that.
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  12. #12
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    I also like MOST of what MSG posted here but do take slight umbrage at type two.... NOTHING ABOUT ME "CLOSET PATRIOT".... I am 100% out of the closet on this. I am a PATRIOT! And I have gone to others who I've seen OPEN CARRYing their firearms (long barrel and short) and thanked them for exercising their rights while I am OC'ing my sidearm! I am a firm believer as said on OCDO that ANY right unexercised (sp) is a right lost!
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 03-18-2013 at 08:12 PM.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  13. #13
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Because it's to hot for a cover garment
    Pants don't fit with a IWB holster
    I'm lazy
    It's my right
    All the cool kids are doing it.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  14. #14
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Why do i OC,

    because i want to
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    Why do i OC,

    because i want to
    And I CAN!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  16. #16
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    I guess I don't fit the mold. I open carry but also have a CHP. It depends on where I am going, what I am doing, and the environment I will be in. OC is generally more comfortable for me and fits my wardrobe better. However if I am going to be at a "crowd" event (sporting game, racetrack, concert) I prefer to carry concealed. It is a matter of retention for me. When I open carry I have (or at least attempt to) a higher sense of my surroundings and the behaviors of those around me. A crowd environment overwhelms my ability to maintain that awareness bubble around me and I get uncomfortable and tense - and I stop having fun. CC allows me to still be prepared to defend myself and those in need around me but allows me to do so in a more relaxed manner. That may sound selfish but I go with whatever method I am comfortable with in the given circumstances.

  17. #17
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    I guess I don't fit the mold. I open carry but also have a CHP. It depends on where I am going, what I am doing, and the environment I will be in. OC is generally more comfortable for me and fits my wardrobe better. However if I am going to be at a "crowd" event (sporting game, racetrack, concert) I prefer to carry concealed. It is a matter of retention for me. When I open carry I have (or at least attempt to) a higher sense of my surroundings and the behaviors of those around me. A crowd environment overwhelms my ability to maintain that awareness bubble around me and I get uncomfortable and tense - and I stop having fun. CC allows me to still be prepared to defend myself and those in need around me but allows me to do so in a more relaxed manner. That may sound selfish but I go with whatever method I am comfortable with in the given circumstances.
    That's perfectly understandable.

    I walked into a store on Saturday, and when I walked out it was raining. I wouldn't have minded to have my CHP then. But I made due. I could see me being uncomfortable in a large crowd OC'ing. Its enough to be aware of everything and everyone around me at a store or restaurant

    I still will not get a CHP tho
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  18. #18
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    I just tell 'em I'm too fat to conceal AND still be able to draw quickly.

    Now, which roll of fat IS that LCP hiding under....

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

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  19. #19
    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
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    How do you justify OC?

    Some of my favorite responses to "Is that a gun? Why do you have that?"

    "I tried carrying a cop around but I strained my back. So now I OC."

    "Oh hey! How'd that get there??"

    As mentioned above "All the cool kids do it."

    "Guns are like a parachute. The one time you need it and don't have it you probably won't need it ever again."

    "The same reason you(while pointing sarcastically at them) carry a cell phone. In case you need it."

  20. #20
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Seeing as how the OP is in Virginia, there is no "need " to justify OC. It is the legal default carry condition. CC is a privilege controlled by the government.

    As for "justifying" OC vs. CC? Why? Different strokes for different folks, and all that. If your friend dislikes OC to the point that they do not want to be around the OP when he OCs, then my considered opinion is that they are not a friend and also not someone I want to be acquainted with. If they choose to :bad mouth" the OP's decision on how to legally carry a handgun, then it is also my considered opinion is that they are not a friend and also not someone I want to be acquainted with.

    Now, if they would like to discuss the differences between OC and CC, and the tactical advantages/disadvanteges of either, draw up a chair, get out the popcorn and let's start in on it! I'm not looking to change their mind, and I hope thwey are not going to try and change mine.

    stay safe.
    You beat me to the punch with this in your first paragraph. I can't tell you how many times I have written and said the same thing; that open carry is the normal, default or standard, mode of carry in Virginia. On one site someone took me to task on this, he didn't like me saying it was the normal mode, but this is in fact, a true statement.

    As for the rest of your post here, I completely agree. The individual may still be a friend, but if he is vehement in his argument, then he has lost a bit of my friendship and respect.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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  21. #21
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HearseGuy View Post
    Great answers so far. Just what I wanted, not a "OC is Better than CC" argument.

    I like that you bring up now criminals want weak and easy. I listened as my ole lady explained this to someone before I had a chance! Someone said "what if the guy behind you at 7-11 wants to rob the place? He's gonna grab your gun, shoot you to get you out of the way and then what?

    She said, "first off, criminals don't want to work for their take. That's why they are criminals. If a criminal sees a man in line with a gun, they are going to leave to find an easier target. There's plenty out there. Secondly, he has a Serpa holster which requires certain actions before the gun will release from the holster. The instant there is a tug on his gun the perps nose will be broken and probly his wrist."

    I was so proud lol...

    It is so strange that most CC people aggressively oppose OC. OC'ers always seem to have a "to each his own" mentality. I do like the analogy about criminals concealing lol
    You will find this on just about any gun site you enter that has this topic as a thread. It seems to be universal. I have to wonder if they realize that they are feeding the anti's with this division. I do both, but I OC most all the time and I have what I believe to be very good reasons for this even though one needn't have "reasons" to exercise a basic right. As far as the thing that the BG is going to "shoot the OC'er first", there is one case of that taking place in Virginia, but as I recall, the OC'er re-entered the business to confront the robbers. Not a smart idea if he had managed to leave safely.

    As for me, I fully and completely support both modes of carry and make no distinction between either as it relates to one's personal preferences since I see it as just that; a personal choice. As skid pointed out, OC is the standard (normal, default) mode of carry here in Virginia and that is how it should be. Personally, I would prefer what is commonly called Constitutional carry as four states already practice, with the option of obtaining a permit for any extraneous reasons.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  22. #22
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    I guess I don't fit the mold. I open carry but also have a CHP. It depends on where I am going, what I am doing, and the environment I will be in. OC is generally more comfortable for me and fits my wardrobe better. However if I am going to be at a "crowd" event (sporting game, racetrack, concert) I prefer to carry concealed. It is a matter of retention for me. When I open carry I have (or at least attempt to) a higher sense of my surroundings and the behaviors of those around me. A crowd environment overwhelms my ability to maintain that awareness bubble around me and I get uncomfortable and tense - and I stop having fun. CC allows me to still be prepared to defend myself and those in need around me but allows me to do so in a more relaxed manner. That may sound selfish but I go with whatever method I am comfortable with in the given circumstances.
    Actually one should be in a heightened state of awareness when CC'ing because they look just like anyone else and are therefore just as much of a target of BG's as people who do not carry at all. If they happen to have other prey factors which are evident (elderly, a disability, arms full of packages) they are even more of a target. If the firearm is visible, most who would seek to do you harm are not going to bother you if they see your sidearm.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  23. #23
    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    If you happen to be some of ur younger readers....In the 18-21 Y/O cat....It is legal to OC, but not CC. It's the best way for one of our younger patriots to protect themselves and others...
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

  24. #24
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Actually one should be in a heightened state of awareness when CC'ing because they look just like anyone else and are therefore just as much of a target of BG's as people who do not carry at all. If they happen to have other prey factors which are evident (elderly, a disability, arms full of packages) they are even more of a target. If the firearm is visible, most who would seek to do you harm are not going to bother you if they see your sidearm.
    That's a fantastic point, one I haven't heard before or given a lot of thought to. You always hear you need to be more vigilant when openly carrying a firearm, but when CCing you just look like any other possible victim.

    I will be putting this point in my arsenal for future use.
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HearseGuy View Post
    (He then told me how putting my Glock in my glove compartment was concealed and I would be arrested. I argued then he said oh well maybe as long as its unloaded. Again I argued and showed him the cites, letter from the AG, and court cases. He was enlightened and appreciative.)
    Quote Originally Posted by § 18.2-308.
    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    ...

    Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:

    ...

    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel;
    I don't see anything about it being unloaded.

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