classes?????????

I am a fairly new gun owner. i do not want to have to get a conceal permit. i would like to open carry from time time when i deem i want to under my rights after july 1st. I was just wondering if there is any classes i can take to let me know the legal way to carry openly. and that teaches the laws on open carry and where to carry.

any classes i can take to let me know the legal way to carry openly. and that teaches the laws on open carry and where to carry.

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As far as I know, there is no illegal way to open carry short of walking around pointing the muzzle at people. The Mississippi Constitution does not allow for the regulation of open carry, or more precisely only allows for the regulation of concealed carry. So as long as the firearm is not concealed, it is legal to carry in MS.

Having said that, I cannot emphasize enough the importance of at least having some training before going about armed, and I would say that is especially true for new gun owners. Making the decision to be able to defend yourself or others with a firearm is of course an individual right as well as an individual responsibility. That particular responsibility is a very serious one, and should you ever need to fire that weapon, you can bet law enforcement will take a long hard look to determine if you exercised reasonableness and responsibility in that action. Therefore, at least some level of training would be prudent.

I am not aware of any classes that are specifically for open carry, maybe some others in this forum are. However, you could take a class designed for concealed carry, just for the sake of taking the class. You would not HAVE to get the firearms permit. If nothing else, this would give you the basics of firearm safety, some education about the applicable laws of the state, and some range shooting with your firearm. This would far far beat nothing at all.

Also my advice would be, at the very least be intimately familiar with the firearm you intend to carry. So much so that knowing how it operates and what to expect from it is more instinct than a thought process. Then temper that instinct with as much practice and knowledge as you can get.

I applaud you for wanting to get some training. Although perfectly legal to carry in this state without it, you are carrying a tool that gives you the capability of depriving someone of their life in a split second. As for me, even if it were legal, I would not fly an airplane or perform surgery on someone without any training, because I might unjustly kill them or myself while doing so. Neither would I carry a firearm without some knowledge and experience about using it.

First of all, no matter what you carry or how, or even if you never carry and only have a weapon at home, please read MS Code 97-3-15. This is titled "Homicide; justifiable homicide; use of defensive force; duty to retreat" and is critical for anyone that owns any weapon for the purpose of self defense. It's a long section, and can be complex, so take your time, diagram it out, whatever it takes to understand the guidelines laid out by the legislature for when you can legally use defensive (and potentially deadly) force. Go to http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/mscode/ and drill down to 97-3-15.

As for classes. Please don't take a concealed carry class expecting solid exposition of the laws and cases. I took a class in Gulfport for the "enhanced" MS permit a few months ago, and the handouts + presentation of state laws and regulations by the instructor were horrible. The class discussed scenarios and interpretations for the next 1-2 hours while I sat there shaking my head at all the idiocy spewed by both the students and the instructor.

As MSRebel54 stated, the state constitution (Article 3 Section 12) states:

The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the Legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.

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According to a plain reading of that sentence, none of the state laws restricting carry apply to open carry. I'll be honest, I have no idea if that's ever been tested in court, but again that's what it says to a lay person like myself.

Just for kicks, if you're interested in the state statutes regarding concealed carry, go to http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/mscode/ and dig into the following:
97-37-1
97-37-9
97-37-17
45-9-101

Display/discharge of firearms:
97-37-19

Restrictions on local ordinances regarding firearms:
45-9-51
45-9-53

Patience!

likestotrade said:

I am a fairly new gun owner. i do not want to have to get a conceal permit. i would like to open carry from time time when i deem i want to under my rights after july 1st. I was just wondering if there is any classes i can take to let me know the legal way to carry openly. and that teaches the laws on open carry and where to carry.

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Not yet. The law was just signed by the Governor and I doubt that DPS has done anything yet in the way of preparing for instruction for the general public.

Why don't you want to obtain a Firearems Permit? By obtaining the Permit with the Instructor Course endorsement, you would show that you qualify for Open Carry.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

Not yet. The law was just signed by the Governor and I doubt that DPS has done anything yet in the way of preparing for instruction for the general public.

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Open Carry has been a constitutionally protected activity for a long time in Ms. I have exercised that right many times in Gulfport, Waveland, Picyune etc... It is good that the OP is searching for an education, however, any classes I know of cater to CC only. I hope the OP has taken to reading the law for themselves.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

Why don't you want to obtain a Firearems Permit? By obtaining the Permit with the Instructor Course endorsement, you would show that you qualify for Open Carry.

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This is incorrect. You qualify for Open Carry by being alive and able to legally posses a firearm. No permit needed... as well there should not be.

Clarification

The present law was passed due to the confusion concerning the wording of the State Supreme Court decision detailing "concealed" carry which was clarified by the current Firearms Permit Law. The "open" carry situation was interpreted differently by different people and PDs over the state. What was OK for you on the coast was NOT OK for me here in Neshoba County nor in most other places in Mississippi until the present law was passed. The problem now will be educating the different law enforcement agencies on just what and where "open" carry is allowed. To point out the confusion among law enforcement concerning the current Firearms Permit Instructor Course Enhanced Permit is whether "concealed" carry is allowed on a school/college campus. According to the interpretation of the law by some campus PDs as "yes," but according to some other campus police departments as "no." Even the printed material completed by an attorney that I received from the instructor in the "IC" training course discussed this confusion concerning schools/colleges. I foresee some court cases before this confusion is finally cleared up unless some government agency, such as DPS, faces up to the problem.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

Not yet. The law was just signed by the Governor and I doubt that DPS has done anything yet in the way of preparing for instruction for the general public.

Why don't you want to obtain a Firearems Permit? By obtaining the Permit with the Instructor Course endorsement, you would show that you qualify for Open Carry.

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Why should i pay the government money to regulate what i do? That is basically what you are doing when you get a concealed carry permit. Doesn't the government regulate the plp enough.

likestotrade said:

Why should i pay the government money to regulate what i do? That is basically what you are doing when you get a concealed carry permit. Doesn't the government regulate the plp enough.

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You pay the government for that Vehicle Operator's License, you pay the government for the tag that is on that vehicle, you pay the government taxes on the gas that you put into the vehicle, and you even pay the government taxes on the food that you eat.

Taking the Enhanced Instructor Course attachment to your Firearms Permit would show that you have had some training in the use of a firearm. That will help if you ever have to go to court to explain why you shot somebody. Anybody can just strap on a gun and would have a hard time convincing a jury that they knew what they were doing when they shot somebody.

Of course, if you are comfortable just wearing the weapon without a Firearms Permit, then do it. Uh, AFTER July 1 that is.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

You pay the government for that Vehicle Operator's License, you pay the government for the tag that is on that vehicle, you pay the government taxes on the gas that you put into the vehicle, and you even pay the government taxes on the food that you eat.

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Like he says... the people are regulated enough. Most of it unconstitutional.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

Taking the Enhanced Instructor Course attachment to your Firearms Permit would show that you have had some training in the use of a firearm. That will help if you ever have to go to court to explain why you shot somebody. Anybody can just strap on a gun and would have a hard time convincing a jury that they knew what they were doing when they shot somebody.

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Actually you could be held to a higher standard if you've had any training. It's more likely that the training will be used against you.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

Of course, if you are comfortable just wearing the weapon without a Firearms Permit, then do it. Uh, AFTER July 1 that is.

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Doing things without a permit is, after all, things only free people do.

The OP should not expect a class to give reliable information regarding the use of firearms ... from a legal standpoint

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

<snip>
Taking the Enhanced Instructor Course attachment to your Firearms Permit would show that you have had some training in the use of a firearm. That will help if you ever have to go to court to explain why you shot somebody. Anybody can just strap on a gun and would have a hard time convincing a jury that they knew what they were doing when they shot somebody.

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Do you really think those classes teach useful info? They don't. The one I attended had an instructor who recently moved down from Connecticut, that hardly knew Mississippi law, cherry-picked which laws she put on the handout, and had many dangerous opinions about the law. And as georg jetson pointed out, a prosecutor could argue that "training" against you (not that that would dissuade me from attending any seriously useful classes).

Oh, and we had no live-fire portion (which was fine with me, I hardly have any ammo stocked). I doubt that portion of the "training" would be relevant in a court case for a self-defense shooting - if you didn't hit innocent bystanders, then I can't imagine that coming up.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

Of course, if you are comfortable just wearing the weapon without a Firearms Permit, then do it. Uh, AFTER July 1 that is.

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Speak for yourself. There are several (many?) of us that have been openly carrying for years without the illusion that it's legally "covered" by a concealed carry permit, enhanced or otherwise. (Hint: go read 45-9-101 - you'll see that the permit expressly does not cover openly carried firearms.)

Link

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

The present law was passed due to the confusion concerning the wording of the State Supreme Court decision detailing "concealed" carry which was clarified by the current Firearms Permit Law. The "open" carry situation was interpreted differently by different people and PDs over the state. What was OK for you on the coast was NOT OK for me here in Neshoba County nor in most other places in Mississippi until the present law was passed. The problem now will be educating the different law enforcement agencies on just what and where "open" carry is allowed. To point out the confusion among law enforcement concerning the current Firearms Permit Instructor Course Enhanced Permit is whether "concealed" carry is allowed on a school/college campus. According to the interpretation of the law by some campus PDs as "yes," but according to some other campus police departments as "no." Even the printed material completed by an attorney that I received from the instructor in the "IC" training course discussed this confusion concerning schools/colleges. I foresee some court cases before this confusion is finally cleared up unless some government agency, such as DPS, faces up to the problem.

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In the story abouot a USM student apparently shooting himself on the USM campus, there is a quote from a USM spokesman concerning the 21 yoa student having a firearm on campus.

http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/22156392/brandon-usm-student

Overly optimistic

My, my but you boys sure seem to be in a pickle about the law. Why doth thou protest so? Law abiding citizens are just that, law abiding citizens. Each day I go about my business and comply with the law about utilizing my Firearms Permit with Enhanced Instructor Course endorsement. I had a great Instructor Course class taught by a Meridian PD Reserve Officer. We had a personal defense style live firing exercise after the classroom discussion. My class had several experienced shooters who were very familiar with Mississiippi law as was the instructor.

Whatever "good ole boy relationships" that have allowed youse guys "to openly carry your firearms for years" don't hold much value in many, many places in Mississippi where the letter of the law is enforced. It is my belief that if you obey the law, then you can utilize the privilege of your Firearms Permit wherever allowed by law in the state of Mississippi not dependent on personal relationships with local LEOs.

As was so well said, "Speak for yourself." As a law abiding Mississippi citizen, I do indeed speak for myself and have no problems.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

In the story abouot a USM student apparently shooting himself on the USM campus, there is a quote from a USM spokesman concerning the 21 yoa student having a firearm on campus.

http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/22156392/brandon-usm-student

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What's your point, that the "enhanced permit" training doesn't teach you how not to shoot yourself?

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

My, my but you boys sure seem to be in a pickle about the law. Why doth thou protest so? Law abiding citizens are just that, law abiding citizens. Each day I go about my business and comply with the law about utilizing my Firearms Permit with Enhanced Instructor Course endorsement. I had a great Instructor Course class taught by a Meridian PD Reserve Officer. We had a personal defense style live firing exercise after the classroom discussion. My class had several experienced shooters who were very familiar with Mississiippi law as was the instructor.

Whatever "good ole boy relationships" that have allowed youse guys "to openly carry your firearms for years" don't hold much value in many, many places in Mississippi where the letter of the law is enforced. It is my belief that if you obey the law, then you can utilize the privilege of your Firearms Permit wherever allowed by law in the state of Mississippi not dependent on personal relationships with local LEOs.

As was so well said, "Speak for yourself." As a law abiding Mississippi citizen, I do indeed speak for myself and have no problems.

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The "letter of the law" in Ms. is that the state legislature can only regulate concealed carry. Any attempt at regulating open carrying is UNLAWFUL.

It is unfortunate that so many LEO personnel would violate the MS Constitution and illegally arrest someone for OCing. Such is the sad state of affairs when the LEO in MS. are the criminals.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

My, my but you boys sure seem to be in a pickle about the law. Why doth thou protest so? Law abiding citizens are just that, law abiding citizens. Each day I go about my business and comply with the law about utilizing my Firearms Permit with Enhanced Instructor Course endorsement. I had a great Instructor Course class taught by a Meridian PD Reserve Officer. We had a personal defense style live firing exercise after the classroom discussion. My class had several experienced shooters who were very familiar with Mississiippi law as was the instructor.

Whatever "good ole boy relationships" that have allowed youse guys "to openly carry your firearms for years" don't hold much value in many, many places in Mississippi where the letter of the law is enforced. It is my belief that if you obey the law, then you can utilize the privilege of your Firearms Permit wherever allowed by law in the state of Mississippi not dependent on personal relationships with local LEOs.

As was so well said, "Speak for yourself." As a law abiding Mississippi citizen, I do indeed speak for myself and have no problems.

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"Good ole boy relationships"? "personal relationships with local LEOs"? Boy, you sure are presuming much. I don't know any cops - and I intend to keep it that way. The only interactions I've had with local police were citations for traffic violations, and getting reports for one or two auto accidents. I abide by the firearms laws, and that law specifically says that the Mississippi Firearms Permit DOES NOT APPLY TO OPENLY CARRIED WEAPONS.

Since you seem to be hellbent on believing your own foolishness, instead of reading the law that you've been directed to several times, I'll spoon-feed you by posting this portion of 45-9-101 - you know, the very law establishing and defining the permit you've put on a pedestal.

Added bolding for emphasis:

(18) Nothing in this section shall be construed to require or allow the registration, documentation or providing of serial numbers with regard to any stun gun or firearm. Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any stun gun or a deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972.

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Well looky here! It looks like openly carried weapons do not fall under the MSFP! So by trying to use your MSFP as "coverage" for your openly carried weapon, you really aren't "comply[ing] with the law about utilizing [your] Firearms Permit".

Clear enough? Or are you going to keep bashing your head against that brick wall of ignorance?

Hard Headed Ignorance

Yes, I have been described before as being hard headed. Glad that you noticed. No matter how hard headed I am, I seem to run into others who seem even more hard headed than me! Case in point---the present discussion.

In your zeal to produce your OPINION about this law and its interpretation, you have forgotten to mention the people that matter---the LEOs who will enforce this new law as well as the old laws currently on the books.

You have spoken of your personal experiences as if they were the ONLY ones to be taken into consideration. Sadly, for you and all others, YOU do not determine what is done in each and every situation. Initial decisions are made by LEOs on the spot and final decisions are made in a court of law.

Have you ever worn a badge and gun and enforced the law? Have you ever had to make the decision to deprive someone of their freedom by placing them in handcuffs and transporting them to jail? Have you ever had to testify in court as to whether your judgment as a LEO to arrest someone was justified and warranted? I worked for about 15 years as a LEO arresting people for everything from overrunning a dog with a motor vehicle to murder AND testifying about it in local, state, and federal courts. I never lost a case. I did have a few situations where a Jackson city judge found people guilty of traffic violations and suspended the fines but I never lost a jury tried case.

Please allow me to hopefully place into the proper context what you and I are talking about. The original law in the Mississippi Constitution of 1890 clearly states that "open" carry shall not be abridged but that ONLY "concealed" carry may be addressed by the state legislature. What happened was that opinions both by judges and the AGs that followed declared that ALL firearms with any portion thereof partly or entirely hidden from view was therefore "concealed" and legally not permitted. Idiotic in my mind but they did not ask either you nor me about it.

First, the issue of legal "concealed" carry was addressed and a law passed to allow for such by Firearms Permit from the MHP. Second, the issue of "open" carry was addressed and a law passed to FINALLY allow for such, AFTER July 1.

Now, just what about my comments do you not agree?

georg jetson said:

The "letter of the law" in Ms. is that the state legislature can only regulate concealed carry. Any attempt at regulating open carrying is UNLAWFUL.

It is unfortunate that so many LEO personnel would violate the MS Constitution and illegally arrest someone for OCing. Such is the sad state of affairs when the LEO in MS. are the criminals.

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Strong words for a citizen of the state of Louisiana. Just what does YOUR opinion have to do with the application of MISSISSIPPI law? OBTW, the law in Mississippi is whatever the Mississippi State Supreme Court says that it is, NOT YOU! The MSSC also determines, in the final decision, who the criminals are too.

Carry on.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

SNIP.

Please allow me to hopefully place into the proper context what you and I are talking about. The original law in the Mississippi Constitution of 1890 clearly states that "open" carry shall not be abridged but that ONLY "concealed" carry may be addressed by the state legislature. What happened was that opinions both by judges and the AGs that followed declared that ALL firearms with any portion thereof partly or entirely hidden from view was therefore "concealed" and legally not permitted. Idiotic in my mind but they did not ask either you nor me about it.

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What judges opinion? Cite the cases please.

And who cares what the AG opinion is.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

First, the issue of legal "concealed" carry was addressed and a law passed to allow for such by Firearms Permit from the MHP. Second, the issue of "open" carry was addressed and a law passed to FINALLY allow for such, AFTER July 1.

Now, just what about my comments do you not agree?

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Most of them, but I asked you to cite court cases... let's see if you can do that.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

Strong words for a citizen of the state of Louisiana. Just what does YOUR opinion have to do with the application of MISSISSIPPI law?

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Well, I can read. Mississippi law is written in English correct? I cite the MS. Constitution as my authority on the matter of OC. All you've done is given a lot of LEO type attitude. Hot air aint the law.

MyGlockisaRedneck0 said:

OBTW, the law in Mississippi is whatever the Mississippi State Supreme Court says that it is, NOT YOU! The MSSC also determines, in the final decision, who the criminals are too.

Carry on.

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No. The Ms. Constitution says what the law is and the MS. Supreme Court can be wrong on occasion.

...but, by all means, show me what the Ms. SC has said on the matter of OC. Cite the case.