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Thread: Need help krogers issue

  1. #1
    Regular Member pawn99's Avatar
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    Need help krogers issue

    Ok so i am currently employed at krogers at store 978 in Sturgis, Mi. I've worked here for 1 year an 8 months. Today i approched my store manager and told him i was obtaining my cpl and was curious if i could carry on the clock. He said no i cannot carry. He said he was gonna get his but he said krogers wont let employes even have it in the parking lot and if he found out it was in my car he could fire me. He did however say " its not like im gonna search your car though " i questioned him and asked how can they do that?? He said krogers considers our parking lot private property and might i add its in strip mall next to the dollar store, clothes store and even our secertary of state. I also asked if i could carry in the store off the clock not in work uniform. He said If you're employed here and if i catch you your gone. But customers can infact carry?????? Can they legally do this or is he just not informed. I'd love to contact krogers and fight this. I feel it tramples on my rights fully. And i will prob keep it in my car an if i get fired for having it in kroger parking lot then idc. Its my right to protect myself. And it's also on a bad side of town aswell. Behind our store is a bunch of appartments with high crime and drug flow. Meth busts are always taken place over their. Im decideing on leaveing the company. Im un happy with it in the beinning but this kills it for me. Please give your feed back.

    Thanks,
    Pawn99

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Need help krogers issue

    Can they do that? Yep.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    You can take this how you want... but dude... it's a kroger job. What's worth more, your kroger job or your life? You decide. Oh know... if they fire you, you might have to go work at meijer or some other grocery store.
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

  4. #4
    Regular Member pawn99's Avatar
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    Wow thats crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    You can take this how you want... but dude... it's a kroger job. What's worth more, your kroger job or your life? You decide. Oh know... if they fire you, you might have to go work at meijer or some other grocery store.
    Oh i understand man. My life is way more important than any job and my safety. I can understand ok we dont want it in the building but the parking lot is another story. In my car which i legally own. Im looking to leave anyway once i find a new job but its mind boggling and proves they dont care for their employees safety and personal choices.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Need help krogers issue

    Quote Originally Posted by pawn99 View Post
    Ok so i am currently employed at krogers at store 978 in Sturgis, Mi. I've worked here for 1 year an 8 months. Today i approched my store manager and told him i was obtaining my cpl and was curious if i could carry on the clock. He said no i cannot carry. He said he was gonna get his but he said krogers wont let employes even have it in the parking lot and if he found out it was in my car he could fire me. He did however say " its not like im gonna search your car though " i questioned him and asked how can they do that?? He said krogers considers our parking lot private property and might i add its in strip mall next to the dollar store, clothes store and even our secertary of state. I also asked if i could carry in the store off the clock not in work uniform. He said If you're employed here and if i catch you your gone. But customers can infact carry?????? Can they legally do this or is he just not informed. I'd love to contact krogers and fight this. I feel it tramples on my rights fully. And i will prob keep it in my car an if i get fired for having it in kroger parking lot then idc. Its my right to protect myself. And it's also on a bad side of town aswell. Behind our store is a bunch of appartments with high crime and drug flow. Meth busts are always taken place over their. Im decideing on leaveing the company. Im un happy with it in the beinning but this kills it for me. Please give your feed back.

    Thanks,
    Pawn99
    Yes they can... of course if you are part of a union and the contract explicitly says they can't, then perhaps not.
    In fact, every employer can put limits on your behavior if they can draw a nexus to your job... ie depending on the circumstances, courts have even in rare circumstances upheld limits imposed while employees are on the way to work or on a lunch break.

    I would follow the advice your manager was trying to give you...if on the property...out of sight out of mind.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  6. #6
    Regular Member pawn99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Yes they can... of course if you are part of a union and the contract explicitly says they can't, then perhaps not.
    In fact, every employer can put limits on your behavior if they can draw a nexus to your job... ie depending on the circumstances, courts have even in rare circumstances upheld limits imposed while employees are on the way to work or on a lunch break.

    I would follow the advice your manager was trying to give you...if on the property...out of sight out of mind.
    Sadly enough i am in the union. If im working i'll keep it in my car. I work third shift when the store is closed with an empty parking lot and he's never their until the morning and theirs days i dont see em because i leave before he comes. And theirs only 5 of us on night crew all pro gun. If im shopping at the other stores in the plaza he can suck one i wont disarm unless asked too by the other store managers. Which i'll take my bussiness else where when that occurs.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Need help krogers issue

    Good luck finding a non-LEO/non-security job that will let you carry while on the clock -- they are very rare. Maybe small mom/pop businesses are your best bet there -- then again those businesses don't usually offer healthcare coverage.

    Only you can decide the best course for you.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member MI_XD's Avatar
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    Hb 4027

    This is where we have to get our Representatives to start pushing HB 4027. It makes our personal vehicles personal property and employers cannot fire you for legally storing a legally owned firearm in your vehicle while parked in the employers parking lot.

    Contact your Reps.. even bring up HB 4027 on Wednesday when you are talking to your Reps while in Lansing at the 2nd Amendment March.

    MI_XD

    See you in Lansing!!
    Last edited by MI_XD; 03-19-2013 at 02:50 PM.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Need help krogers issue

    Quote Originally Posted by pawn99 View Post
    Sadly enough i am in the union. If im working i'll keep it in my car. I work third shift when the store is closed with an empty parking lot and he's never their until the morning and theirs days i dont see em because i leave before he comes. And theirs only 5 of us on night crew all pro gun. If im shopping at the other stores in the plaza he can suck one i wont disarm unless asked too by the other store managers. Which i'll take my bussiness else where when that occurs.
    Be very careful about stowing your gun in your car especially before you get your CPL(know transport laws forward & backwards). Also crooks know cars parked late at night at a kroger are those of employees and are easy pickens - so invest in a trunk safe. If not- could you imagine having your pistol stolen, only to lose your job for having it in the lot once the police showed up to take the report? Talk about a recipe for a lousy night.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 03-19-2013 at 07:26 PM.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Good luck finding a non-LEO/non-security job that will let you carry while on the clock -- they are very rare. Maybe small mom/pop businesses are your best bet there -- then again those businesses don't usually offer healthcare coverage.
    Two words. Blue collar.

    The majority of my past employers, and current employer as well, are just fine with CCing. Corporate places most often aren't, but indeed mom and pop type companies, as well as franchise companies, often don't care, or in fact encourage it.

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    Regular Member pawn99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Be very careful about stowing your gun in your car especially before you get your CPL(know transport laws forward & backwards). Also crooks know cars parked late at night at a kroger are those of employees and are easy pickens - so invest in a trunk safe. If not- could you imagine having your pistol stolen, only to lose your job for having it in the lot once the police showed up to take the report? Talk about a recipe for a lousy night.
    That sounds like a horrible night!!! Lol. Im set on the trunk safe and ill make sure its stored securely and kno the transport laws.

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Re: Need help krogers issue

    Pocket carry. A kel-tec or ruger 380 will be next to invisible. I pocket carry a ruger lcr and nobody ever sees if. If I was in a situation where it was needed I wouldn't care if I was fired as long as my life was intact.
    Too lazy to do a blog! Follow me on Twitter instead! @6ShotScott

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    Regular Member pawn99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    Pocket carry. A kel-tec or ruger 380 will be next to invisible. I pocket carry a ruger lcr and nobody ever sees if. If I was in a situation where it was needed I wouldn't care if I was fired as long as my life was intact.
    Thats how i feel

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    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    Pocket carry. A kel-tec or ruger 380 will be next to invisible. I pocket carry a ruger lcr and nobody ever sees if. If I was in a situation where it was needed I wouldn't care if I was fired as long as my life was intact.

    +1 This is what I would do in a situation like that, The ruger LCP would dissipear in a Desantis pocket holster,better to be caught with it,then without it.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Wowwie..............

    +1 This is what I would do in a situation like that, The ruger LCP would dissipear in a Desantis pocket holster,better to be caught with it,then without it.
    Don't worry, the OP will be caught with it. Because from his story it sounds like he's one of those who can't keep their trap shut.

    I've worked for a Kroger branch before (QFC in the seattle area) I was a union member (UFCW local 21)
    All Kroger employees are trained in standardized orientation sessions, the OPs Orientator should have covered the no weapons policy and made him sign a waiver to that effect. so unless his trainer udderly screwed up at his job, the OP should've known full well the policy, and yet he's out chatting with the manager about just that.

    If you're going to break the rules keep your damn mouth shut and you won't get in trouble. leave your firearm hidden or in lock in a glove box or center console, don't talk about, don't touch it. etc etc etc. it really is that simple folks...

    it's like a classmate of mine who got expelled senior year of high school for pointing a toy gun with the orange tip painted over at someone as a joke, if he left his damn airsoft in his pack and didn't talk loudly about it and **** around with it he wouldn't have gotten in trouble. a gun instructor at a local gun show ventilated the roof of the puyallup fair pavillion with a loaded gun he wasn't supposed to have... if his concealed gun had stayed CONCEALED no one would've cared

    you getting it yet?

    if you're going to break the rule, SHUT UP and don't talk to anyone at work about any kind of guns for any reason and 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999% likely you'll never have a problem!
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Multiple thought here...

    Work rules are different for employees VS customers, this is the same almost every place!!!

    If you are in a strip mall, then they do not own the land AKA parking lot so they have no rights with respect to search of any vehicle there. If they Own the building then that is a different issue, but stores only rent a building space, the parking lost is a part of the complex..

    Lock you car, it is private property and they would need a search warrant to have a look, and the police must be notified and in attendence...

    Were that to happen you could fret illness and simply leave... yes it would piss them off but you at worst would only get an infraction of the company rules..

    I know of people that carried daily before we had our shall issue laws and despite company policy, the general rule for them was don't ask don't tell... No I am in no way condoning you or any violation of work rules or any laws...

    Become a Reserve County Police officer.... yes that gives you some very specific rights...


    37 years as a union member, BTDT group, and union representive among other things....
    Last edited by Sheldon; 03-20-2013 at 11:07 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member pawn99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Don't worry, the OP will be caught with it. Because from his story it sounds like he's one of those who can't keep their trap shut.

    I've worked for a Kroger branch before (QFC in the seattle area) I was a union member (UFCW local 21)
    All Kroger employees are trained in standardized orientation sessions, the OPs Orientator should have covered the no weapons policy and made him sign a waiver to that effect. so unless his trainer udderly screwed up at his job, the OP should've known full well the policy, and yet he's out chatting with the manager about just that.

    If you're going to break the rules keep your damn mouth shut and you won't get in trouble. leave your firearm hidden or in lock in a glove box or center console, don't talk about, don't touch it. etc etc etc. it really is that simple folks...

    it's like a classmate of mine who got expelled senior year of high school for pointing a toy gun with the orange tip painted over at someone as a joke, if he left his damn airsoft in his pack and didn't talk loudly about it and **** around with it he wouldn't have gotten in trouble. a gun instructor at a local gun show ventilated the roof of the puyallup fair pavillion with a loaded gun he wasn't supposed to have... if his concealed gun had stayed CONCEALED no one would've cared

    you getting it yet?

    if you're going to break the rule, SHUT UP and don't talk to anyone at work about any kind of guns for any reason and 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999% likely you'll never have a problem!
    Actully i had no idea thats why i was asking. I've never!!! Carried their nor did i get in trouble. It was just small talk me asking questions. I wasnt sure if the same rule applyed while off the clock shopping. I'd rather be safe and know the rule than open carry while shopping and get in trouble cause of it! He said he even wanted his! You going on saying" Because from his story it sounds like he's one of those who can't keep their trap shut. " Makes you sound like a complete ass and makes your opinions completely irrelevant.

  18. #18
    Regular Member pawn99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    Work rules are different for employees VS customers, this is the same almost every place!!!

    If you are in a strip mall, then they do not own the land AKA parking lot so they have no rights with respect to search of any vehicle there. If they Own the building then that is a different issue, but stores only rent a building space, the parking lost is a part of the complex..

    Lock you car, it is private property and they would need a search warrant to have a look, and the police must be notified and in attendence...

    Were that to happen you could fret illness and simply leave... yes it would piss them off but you at worst would only get an infraction of the company rules..

    I know of people that carried daily before we had our shall issue laws and despite company policy, the general rule for them was don't ask don't tell... No I am in no way condoning you or any violation of work rules or any laws...

    Become a Reserve County Police officer.... yes that gives you some very specific rights...


    37 years as a union member, BTDT group, and union representive among other things....

    I understand. Thats what i'll do is just lock it in my car stored away. But i understood the part of not being able to have it on your person at work. But not able to have it on your person if your even shopping their off the clock? Or not able to store it in your legally owned car while on or off the clock? I'm gonna do it anways and store it out of sight in my trunk. He pretty much gave me the impression of out of sight outta mind. If i dont see it i dont care and he even Said its not like im gonna search your car. But whats mind boggling is its in a strip mall with lots of other bussiness clotheing store, hardware store, dollar store, shoe store, chinese resturant, an ect and he says i cant have it in the whole plaza? I wont enter krogers building with it but your not gonna tell me i cant carry in another store next to yours who supports it.

  19. #19
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Need help krogers issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    Work rules are different for employees VS customers, this is the same almost every place!!!

    If you are in a strip mall, then they do not own the land AKA parking lot so they have no rights with respect to search of any vehicle there. If they Own the building then that is a different issue, but stores only rent a building space, the parking lost is a part of the complex..

    Lock you car, it is private property and they would need a search warrant to have a look, and the police must be notified and in attendence...

    Were that to happen you could fret illness and simply leave... yes it would piss them off but you at worst would only get an infraction of the company rules..

    I know of people that carried daily before we had our shall issue laws and despite company policy, the general rule for them was don't ask don't tell... No I am in no way condoning you or any violation of work rules or any laws...

    Become a Reserve County Police officer.... yes that gives you some very specific rights...


    37 years as a union member, BTDT group, and union representive among other things....
    How would being a reserve officer negate the company policy? The only time it may is if the rule as written allows that exception. My workplace rules do have such an exception, among others :-)
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  20. #20
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawn99 View Post
    Actully i had no idea thats why i was asking. I've never!!! Carried their nor did i get in trouble. It was just small talk me asking questions. I wasnt sure if the same rule applyed while off the clock shopping. I'd rather be safe and know the rule than open carry while shopping and get in trouble cause of it! He said he even wanted his! You going on saying" Because from his story it sounds like he's one of those who can't keep their trap shut. " Makes you sound like a complete ass and makes your opinions completely irrelevant.
    It doesn't matter what the manager said. now that you've said once that you have a desire to carry a gun, if the district manager comes down for an inspection and your managers lets slip all your questioning he may be ordered to search your vehicle. if things go sour between you and the manager he may use that conversation as basis to search your vehicle (as a condition of continued employment) just to spite you, and if he finds a gun, you're toast and the union won't be able to help you.

    don't get caught, that means don't say anything, to anyone, under any circumstance, that you carry a firearm at work or on work related property.
    Don't even mention guns, maybe your manager doesn't care, but by talking to him you gave him the option of caring. no one care about what they don't know about. If I seem curt it's because I'm trying to strongly get the point across in no uncertain terms.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Re: Need help krogers issue

    I concur with keeping your mouth shut about guns, even as a general topic. There are a couple people at work who know I carry, and I'm sure others suspect it because everyone has seen me in the news getting interviewed about gun stuff. I'm pretty sure I would keep my job if it became common knowledge but I'd rather not risk it.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Unless you work for the government or are in a union, you can be fired for having green hair. Learn to keep your big trap shut, they could fire you for just having a permit. I do believe Krogers is Union though.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Don't worry, the OP will be caught with it. Because from his story it sounds like he's one of those who can't keep their trap shut.

    I've worked for a Kroger branch before (QFC in the seattle area) I was a union member (UFCW local 21)
    All Kroger employees are trained in standardized orientation sessions, the OPs Orientator should have covered the no weapons policy and made him sign a waiver to that effect. so unless his trainer udderly screwed up at his job, the OP should've known full well the policy, and yet he's out chatting with the manager about just that.

    If you're going to break the rules keep your damn mouth shut and you won't get in trouble. leave your firearm hidden or in lock in a glove box or center console, don't talk about, don't touch it. etc etc etc. it really is that simple folks...

    it's like a classmate of mine who got expelled senior year of high school for pointing a toy gun with the orange tip painted over at someone as a joke, if he left his damn airsoft in his pack and didn't talk loudly about it and **** around with it he wouldn't have gotten in trouble. a gun instructor at a local gun show ventilated the roof of the puyallup fair pavillion with a loaded gun he wasn't supposed to have... if his concealed gun had stayed CONCEALED no one would've cared

    you getting it yet?

    if you're going to break the rule, SHUT UP and don't talk to anyone at work about any kind of guns for any reason and 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999% likely you'll never have a problem!
    Bingo. To me this nails it.

    Sounds like your manager was being really cool and doing you a solid when he said, "its not like im gonna search your car though". For me the conversation would have ended right there with a nod and a wink. Why keep pushing it.
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  24. #24
    Regular Member pawn99's Avatar
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    I'm not really worried about him searching my car. I know he wouldn't. He isn't that kinda manager. I work 3rd shift while the store is all closed. No managers. There's usually only 3 or 4 of us in the store working. Sometimes 5. I hardly see my store manager if I do its maybe the last 30 minutes and I go home. But Again. I was asking cause I didn't know period. And I wasn't an ass to him nor was he to me. He knew I didn't know. My union rep didn't even know. He was in the same boat I was. So of course I'm gonna ask and find out the truth. There's 3 ppl in the store total that knows about me carrying. Two of which I'm great friends with outside of work and one of the two is my union rep an he's like a brother to me. And my manager knows cause I didn't fully know the rules on that but I've never carried to work or even left it in my car while working im still waiting on my cpl. I wanted to know the rules fully. Also I'm not worried and could care less who knows I carry. I got nothing to hide. I live in a small town. Our 3 main big stores are Walmart, Krogers and Kmart(which not a lot of ppl shop at Kmart) living in a small town everyone knows everyone.
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 03-21-2013 at 03:56 AM. Reason: fixed minor errors. :)

  25. #25
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawn99 View Post
    Im not really worried about him searching my car. I know he wouldnt. He isnt that kinda manager. i work 3rd! Shift while the store is all closed. No managers. Theirs usally only 3 or 4 of us in the store working. Sometimes 5. I hardly see my store manager if i do its maybe the last 30 minutes and i go home. But Again. I was asking cause i didnt know period. And i wasnt an ass to him nor was he to me. He knew i didnt know. My union rep didnt even know. He was in the same boat i was. So of course im gonna ask and find out the truth. Theirs 3 ppl in the store total that knows about me carrying. Two of which im great friends with outside of work and one of the two is my union rep an he's like a brother to me. And my manager knows cause i didnt fully kno the rules on that but i've never carried to work or even left it in my car while working im still waiting on my cpl. I wanted to kno the rules fully. Also im not worried an could care less who knows i carry. I got nothing to hide. I live in a small town. Our 3 main big stores are walmart, krogers and kmart(which not alot of ppl shop at kmart) living in a small town everyone knows everyone.
    No I dig man, that's all good. I understand your situation completely, EMN gave you the best advice. Wanna carry? Do it. But KYBMS! Don't even mention the word gun for the rest of your employment. Just understand the consequences and repercussions of getting caught, or touching my cornbread.

    Walmart, Kroger, AND Kmart? Sounds like a metropolis! We got a dollar general and a china take out. One stop light. Nearest Walmart is about an hour. That's small town
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

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