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Thread: Dad: This Picture of My Son Holding a Gun Triggered a Visit from NJ Police, Family Se

  1. #1
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    Dad: This Picture of My Son Holding a Gun Triggered a Visit from NJ Police, Family Se

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...mily-services/

    http://www.deloc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8175

    The fight has officially been brought to my front door.

    The young man in the photo is the 11-yr-old son of Shawn Moore. The gun is a .22 rifle, a copy of the AR-15, but a 22 caliber. The photo was posted on Facebook by a proud father. That Facebook posting apparently triggered an anonymous call to New Jersey’s Department of Youth and Family Services (DYFS). On Friday night, March 15th, two representatives from the state’s social services office (along with four local police officers) came to the Moore home and demanded to see the family’s firearms.
    Last night I was out with a buddy of mine. I got a text from my wife that the cops and dyfs are at the house and they wanna check out my guns and needed me to open my safe.
    I'm instantly on my way. I get in contact with evan Nappen on the way. I explain the situation. I walk in my house and hand the phone to the first cop I see. Then direct all of em outside. Dyfs got a call because of a pic on my son holding a gun. They wanted to look around and check all my guns out, make sure they were all registered. Obviously that didn't go well because I refused. I had Nappen on speaker phone the entire time so they had to deal with both of us. They kept trying to pressure me to open my safe. They had no warrant, no charges, nothing. I didn't budge. I was told I was being "unreasonable" and that I was acting suspicious because I wouldn't open my safe. Told me they were gonna get a search warrant. Told em go ahead. Nappen (my lawyer) asked me for the dyfs workers name. she wouldnt give it. i asked for credentials and she wouldnt show em. i tried to take a pic of her and she turned around real fast and walked away. After a while of them threatening to take my kids, get warrants and intimidation they left. Empty handed and seeing nothing.

    People it can happen that fast. Most people wouldn't have stood up to them like I did.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 03-21-2013 at 06:52 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Just read an article about this that I saw on Facebook. It's crazy that they would do that but it's NJ. I like how the child services woman was demanding so much yet couldn't provide name or credentials.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Moved to the NJ sub-forum - did not occur in Delaware.

    Don't really understand why this was posted here without clarification as to location.

    The Blaze story straightens that out though.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I was told I was being “unreasonable” and that I was acting suspicious because I wouldn’t open my safe.
    Told me they were gonna get a search warrant.
    I guess they don't get any training in the Constitution out there... It should have been done the other way around - get the warrant (if they could), then show up at the house.
    It is completely reasonable to prevent gov't agents from entering your house without a warrant, or from inspecting any of your property without a warrant, etc.

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor – One of the toughest certifications to attain
    I disagree.

    If they wanted to make sure that code about minors possessing firearms was not violated, they only needed to ask: who took the picture, who was present when it was taken, and do any of those people have a carry or purchase permit?
    No home invasion, no illegal searches...

    The agency and local law enforcement may be looking to see if Moore violated New Jersey’s Code of Criminal Justice, specifically, 2C:58-6.1 Possession of firearms by minors; exceptions.

    b. No person under the age of 18 years shall possess, carry, fire or use a firearm except as provided under paragraphs (1), (2), (3) and (4) of this subsection... :
    (1) In the actual presence or under the direct supervision of his father, mother or guardian, or some other person who holds a permit to carry a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
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    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    OP-- Without a warrant your wife should not of let these people into your home.

    Now a problem you may encounter is this." Endangering the welfare of a child " charge. Speak to your attorney ASAP about Endangering.

    Good luck.

    CCJ

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Disgusting state actions.....child services (by whatever name it goes in a given jurisdiction) thinks they are the law. Unfortunately, many they attack do not know that they have the power to deny them entry without warrants and once they're in the door they will find SOMETHING to complain about so they can keep their case load up. A friend had them ding her because she had a sink full of dishes and her son (who was playing outside in the back yard) was "dirty".

    Thus began her journey through the horrors of "child services".....more aptly named "bureaucratic nightmares to ensure our continued employment".


    Just consider my ignorant of the facts question below to be deleted. I could have sworn I read he kicked them out of the house. ggrrrrrr
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    I too want to know why the mother let them in when the husband is an OCer.....I would have thought that constitutional rights would have been well know by all in the family old enough to comprehend them.
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    Last edited by We-the-People; 03-21-2013 at 06:19 PM.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Exclamation Family’s Home Raided over Facebook Photo of Child’s Rifle

    FUQ
    New Jersey police and Dept. of Children and Families officials raided the home of a firearms instructor and demanded to see his guns after he posted a Facebook photo of his 11-year-old son holding a rifle.
    "Raided" is not quite accurate, the cops and bureaucrats never entered the home.

    Further down in the article.

    The family’s trouble started Saturday night when Moore received an urgent text message from his wife. The Carneys Point Police Dept. and the New Jersey Dept. of Children and Families had raided their home.

    Moore immediately called Nappen and rushed home to find officers demanding to check his guns and his gun safe.

    Instead, he handed the cell phone to one of the officers – so they could speak with Nappen.

    “If you have a warrant, you’re coming in,” Nappen told the officers. “If you don’t, then you’re not. That’s what privacy is all about.”

    With his attorney on speaker phone, Moore instructed the officers to leave his home.

    http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...lds-rifle.html
    Chilling.

    Also, this little tidbit.

    But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she [Brown] noted.

    “You can’t be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it’s false,” she said.

    Nappen said what happened to the Moore family should serve as a warning to gun owners across the nation.
    Very chilling.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Facebook picture generates home raid

    This could happen to any of a number of us here.

    TFred

    http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...lds-rifle.html

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    FUQ"Raided" is not quite accurate, the cops and bureaucrats never entered the home.

    Further down in the article.

    Chilling.

    Also, this little tidbit.

    Very chilling.
    Sorry, repeat. I didn't check the NJ forum.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Yankees!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    FUQ"Raided" is not quite accurate, the cops and bureaucrats never entered the home.

    Further down in the article.

    Chilling.

    Also, this little tidbit.

    Very chilling.
    I realize that many different "original posts" are finding their way here in the NJ forum, so not everyone saw the entire set of reports before they posted... However, just to point out, the post on the Delaware Open Carry forum from the father in question stated that he "direct[ed] all of em outside", which would seem to indicate that they did come into the house.

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Dad: This Picture of My Son Holding a Gun Triggered a Visit from NJ Police, Fam

    Smart to have a lawyer available for exactly this type of asinine situation. He handled the situation well based on the story.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Dad: This Picture of My Son Holding a Gun Triggered a Visit from NJ Police, Fam

    Nightmare, am I reading this correctly? This is YOUR family?

    I saw the story on Dayton TV and rushed to the NJ forum to see if it had already been posted.

    This is of more import than to just NJians. It should be moved to Hot Topics or General for all to discuss!

    The welfare worker must've known she was outta line, not identifying herself. If we must identify ourselves to LE during official encounters, why should they not be required, under penalty of law to identify themselves when contacting citizens in an official capacity?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

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    As I understand it, this did happen and pretty much along the lines as reported, so let this serve as warning ...

    .1. Stay away from, stop using those "social media" sites.

    .2. That governments, at all levels, federal, state, county, municipal, property owner associations "misbehave" with respect to your constitutional rights is not a secret. It happens at all levels - and often.

    .3. More than at anytime in the past it is in your legal, as well as your economic interests to have more than a passing interest in the local individuals involved in the law and how they are and have conducted the people's business. This applies to the executive, the judicial and the legislative branches and thanks to computers, in this day and age it's easier than ever to do - but it's up to you.

    Just my opinion


    tyc

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Angry Child Services, Police Descend on Home After 10-Year Old Poses with Hunting Rifle...

    I posed a question in a previous post (which I cannot locate right now) asking something along the lines of, "I wonder how long will it be, before taking your kid to the range will be considered child abuse?"

    The state of New Jersey has taken that thought one step further. Taking a photo of a child with a .22 rifle in his/her hands apparently meets that criteria for the "Garden State". For details go to: http://www.teaparty.org/child-servic...g-rifle-21911/ Please don't dismiss this offhandedly because of the URL. The TEA Party address does nothing to automatically sway my opinion one way or the other. It neither makes the report gospel, nor does it make me want to play the BS card.

    When I posed that question I was, in fact, serious. If things keep going in the same direction, I can see a us reaching a point where that type of family activity could become a reality... and a crime!. Assuming that our votes count for anything, our next opportunity to replace any of the left-wing loonies that are crewing our "Ship of State", is November of next year. They have set us upon a course for the Isle of Destitute Slaves, and they are fully aware of the reefs, sandbars, waterfalls and other marine hazards. If they can't hit them and claim "It's Gee Dubbya's fault!", they are prepared to scuttle her and blame the Republican/RINO-controlled House of Reps.

    I would suggest that we all (assuming some are not) get active in returning our Republic to its original and true path. Speak with all who will listen - share your knowledge of "the big picture" as it is unfolding. When I was a child, connecting the dots was fun... today, it's just plain disturbing.
    Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-21-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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    Regular Member linerider69's Avatar
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    The United States has certainly gone from bad to worse in the last few years.It seems any picture posted with a firearm quickly comes under scrutiny by some form of government office.The government has backed the American people into a corner and it seems desperate times are fast approaching and desperate times call for desperate measures. The people must mobilize and confront these tyrants head on.Organize a 1 or 2 or 3 million man march to their doorstep and demand freedom and our second amendment rights be reinstated.How long will the American people stand for this. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!all your rights are being taken now is the time to do something.That being said too many sheeple out there that keep saying its not that bad or that its not happening or just plain cowards waiting for someone to cast the first stone,well it has been cast time to return the favor.Get your paper pen stamps out write every elected official you can think of and say something.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I **** all over New Jersey.

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    This Country is goin in the wrong direction!!

    T-R

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    CPS just violates your rights and ignores the constitution.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapper-Randy View Post
    This Country is goin in the wrong direction!!

    T-R
    +1 Pax...
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