Train Like You Fight - But Where & With Who?

anmut · Mar 19, 2013

While I was buying preference points for bear hunting for my son & I at Fleet Farm I noticed that they had some info on CC courses at the register. I wrote down the web address, www.equip2conceal.com, and when I got home I checked it out. I was interested in what they called a "Level 2" course for people to gain more skills at using a pistol in self defense.

So according to their website, the Level 2 class is four hours long and you only need 100 rounds of ammo for range time. Seriously?! I'll put more down range in an afternoon than that. And what do you get for the $175?

We will spend a short time reviewing not just safety, but grip, dominant eye, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger squeeze, breath control, and follow through. All of these fundamentals will be utilized to successfully complete the course.

1. Pistol Shooting Fundamentals Review
2. Opportunity to Develop Skills on a live firing range
3. Take Home Score Sheet for each drill
4. Four challenging drills with four caliber firearms
5. Help the shooter master the methods of accurate shooting
6. Enhance your enjoyment for shooting
7. Confidence to continue building on skills with practice

So it pretty much sounds like a big rip off to me, someone that considers himself a fair shooter already. But I'm still interested in expanding my knowledge and training - but where is this available in Wisconsin and is any of it worth the money?

Lephi · Mar 20, 2013

It sounds like a basic marksmanship course.

There are many more advanced classes available from trainers all over the country. I am a fan of Suarez International myself, but good training cost in both time and money but its worth it, you really have no idea how much you don't know till someone shows you.

protias · Mar 20, 2013

IIRC, Equip 2 Conceal is out of FL. I've been saying since they showed their faces here they are a poor group to get "training" from as they are pretty basic, plus they don't know the WI law despite giving a WI specific course.

tomrkba · Mar 20, 2013

Start with Tom Givens at Rangemaster. He does travel.

Craig Douglas at shivworks.com offers his ECQC course. It is excellent. He travels too.

Get on http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/forum.php and start reading the reports. Also get on m4carbine.net.

protias · Mar 20, 2013

Nightmare said:
Under Wisconsin Statutes SubSection 175.60(21)(d) a trainer is immune from good-faith error.

E2C came to the forum and was promptly corrected from all his errors, but refused to listen. It is sad when us "dumb" people know more about the law than a trainer who refuses to learn it.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-Firearms-Group-Advertising-Classes-In-Wausau

MKEgal · Mar 21, 2013

I've heard many comments about the E2C company/classes, none of them good.
In fact, people who have paid for their 'instruction', then taken the WCI class, say that the WCI information is far superior, more in-depth, more useful, and true.
The E2C people teach FL laws, which in some cases are completely opposite of WI law. I suspect they are the source of much of the "you can't carry openly" myth.

I am very disappointed that FF chose to contract with E2C, rather than a WI organization such as WI Carry (offering free classes with WI information that's true), or allowing local instructors to advertise & conduct classes in their stores, or even staying neutral & not taking ads from anyone.

MKEgal · Mar 21, 2013

Troll said:
What was the error in law?

Where the E2C person claimed that his training would definitely meet WI requirements, even though those hadn't been set by the DOJ yet. (And those were changed very shortly after being published, because they didn't meet the law.)

What did "out of Florida" mean when E2C apparently lived in Wausau?

From his first post 25AUG11 7:28PM:
Equip2ConcealInst
Regular Member
Join Date Aug 2011
Location Florida

And the information hasn't changed since then.
The company is based in FL.

Firearms Iinstuctor · Mar 21, 2013

A lot depends on ones skill level if the instruction is worth the costs. A good instructor can be a big help to people who need it.

Personally I talk with my clients and see where their skill level is and develop training to improve on that.

Some one who is a good firearms handler and shooter shouldn't need a a basic course. But there are people who could very well benifit from learning proper firearms skills even thou they have been shooting a while.

If any one is interested in advanced firearms training feel free to PM me and we can converse on what you need to improve your skill levels.

With 33 plus years of firearms and tactical training, instuctor certificates in rifle,patrol rifle,police shotgun and hangun.

I am able to offer personalized training from very basic to advanced skills.

OC for ME · Mar 21, 2013

Who in Wisconsin fights with handguns?

What is the duration of the "typical" handgun "employment", what distance(s) are these employments conducted, what is the average age of the citizen who employs his handgun?

Where does the typical handgun employment take place?

When does the typical handgun employment take place?

Why does the typical handgun employment take place?

Interceptor_Knight · Mar 21, 2013

protias said:
E2C came to the forum and was promptly corrected from all his errors, but refused to listen. It is sad when us "dumb" people know more about the law than a trainer who refuses to learn it.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-Firearms-Group-Advertising-Classes-In-Wausau

The biggest thing I saw in that thread was people claiming that the $99 spent on that course was a waste of money and that free internet advice was better than paying for a formal class. I didn't see any "errors" posted by E2C.....

Nightmare said:
Residency requirementa are a common legal requirement all over the US, is there one in Wisconsin?

There is no requirement that an instructor be a WI resident or that the class even take place in WI. The class must simply be a firearm safety or training class. There is not even a requirement to have any mention of WI law as part of the Curriculum.

MKEgal said:
Where the E2C person claimed that his training would definitely meet WI requirements, even though those hadn't been set by the DOJ yet. (And those were changed very shortly after being published, because they didn't meet the law.) .

Being a NRA Certified Instructor, ANY Firearms Safety OR Training Course he provides currently meets the Statutory Requirement. The 4 hour minimum never stuck. * *The DOJ's dream list would change this, but that is to be seen.

jpm84092 · Mar 24, 2013

Yellow Cat

The Yellow Cat will be returning to Southeastern Wisconsin for a family reunion over the last weekend in June. Class times and schedules will be posted as the time approaches, but at a minimum I will be offering the Utah CFP course. Any former students may attend as a refresher for free.

Yellow Cat Out -

www.yellowcatpersonaldefense.com

OkSlim · Mar 24, 2013

anmut said:
While I was buying preference points for bear hunting for my son & I at Fleet Farm I noticed that they had some info on CC courses at the register. I wrote down the web address, www.equip2conceal.com, and when I got home I checked it out. I was interested in what they called a "Level 2" course for people to gain more skills at using a pistol in self defense.

So according to their website, the Level 2 class is four hours long and you only need 100 rounds of ammo for range time. Seriously?! I'll put more down range in an afternoon than that. And what do you get for the $175?

We will spend a short time reviewing not just safety, but grip, dominant eye, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger squeeze, breath control, and follow through. All of these fundamentals will be utilized to successfully complete the course.

1. Pistol Shooting Fundamentals Review
2. Opportunity to Develop Skills on a live firing range
3. Take Home Score Sheet for each drill
4. Four challenging drills with four caliber firearms
5. Help the shooter master the methods of accurate shooting
6. Enhance your enjoyment for shooting
7. Confidence to continue building on skills with practice

So it pretty much sounds like a big rip off to me, someone that considers himself a fair shooter already. But I'm still interested in expanding my knowledge and training - but where is this available in Wisconsin and is any of it worth the money?

I have a college degree so a remedial reading course for me isn't worth the money.

To someone with problems reading a book, a remedial reading class probably has value.

Train Like You Fight - But Where & With Who?

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