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Thread: Carry / Open carry in Ogden, Perry, SLC

  1. #1
    Regular Member tomrkba's Avatar
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    Carry / Open carry in Ogden, Perry, SLC

    Hey all,

    I'll be visiting Ogden, Utah this summer. I have a valid non-resident Utah CCW permit. As I understand it, many of the weird variations in Utah law go away with the permit. I will likely carry concealed, but may need to OC for some reason.

    I want to find out a few things regarding carry in Ogden, Perry, Park City and SLC. How do these jurisdictions handle OC? Do their officers need to be reminded about OC? Do Ogden, Park City and/or Perry have many anti-rights businesses? The last thing I want to do is visit only to find "No firearms" signs everywhere (Prescott, AZ was very weird like that).

    I'll be visiting the Maddox Lodge in Perry, Utah. Is this a pro-rights establishment?
    Last edited by tomrkba; 03-20-2013 at 08:41 AM.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomrkba View Post
    Hey all,

    I'll be visiting Ogden, Utah this summer. I have a valid non-resident Utah CCW permit. As I understand it, many of the weird variations in Utah law go away with the permit. I will likely carry concealed, but may need to OC for some reason.

    The last thing I want to do is visit only to find "No firearms" signs everywhere (Prescott, AZ was very weird like that).

    I'll be visiting the Maddox Lodge in Perry, Utah. Is this a pro-rights establishment?
    Ogden City limits is about 1/4 mile from me, and I have had no problems with OC there... BUT, I don't go into Ogden proper very often. SLC is OC-friendly, (as evidenced by the abundance of firearms on the steps of the State Capital last month, and the lack of obvious presence of the UPD), but I know nothing about the other cities. OC is allowed per the Utah State Constitution, in which the articles regarding firearms is a virtual carbon copy of the IIA. Sorry I couldn't tell you anything about the rest. I have seen very few establishments here with "NO FIREARMS" policies posted on their doors... maybe a half-dozen total in Weber and Davis counties. But, if you are confronted by an establishment's management and asked to return your gun to the car, you must do so, or risk a trespassing charge. Enjoy your visit! Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 03-21-2013 at 01:57 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomrkba View Post
    ...I have a valid non-resident Utah CCW permit. As I understand it, many of the weird variations in Utah law go away with the permit. I will likely carry concealed, but may need to OC for some reason.

    I want to find out a few things regarding carry in Ogden, Perry, Park City and SLC. How do these jurisdictions handle OC? Do their officers need to be reminded about OC? Do Ogden, Park City and/or Perry have many anti-rights businesses? The last thing I want to do is visit only to find "No firearms" signs everywhere...
    The biggest difference is that by having a permit, you can now OC with a "loaded" firearm, whereas without a permit, your OC must be of a firearm that is not loaded. UT's archaic definition of "loaded" is a carry-over from the single-action revolver being the ubiquitous sidearm. You cannot have a round in firing position, and the firearm must require two mechanical actions (pulling the trigger is #2) to fire. There is no requirement to conceal by having the permit, so many who only openly carry, still get the permit to allow them to do so with a "loaded" firearm.

    It does not need to be a UT-issued permit, as they recognize a permit issued from any state or county in the US.

    Please note that trespassing notification does not need to be given by the management of private property. Any representative (including a door greeter) can tell you to leave. If you wish to argue your case to management, you should do so by telephone after leaving.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Please note that trespassing notification does not need to be given by the management of private property. Any representative (including a door greeter) can tell you to leave. If you wish to argue your case to management, you should do so by telephone after leaving.
    Not that simple. Don't forget the burden of proof is on the accuser.

    76-6-206. Criminal trespass.

    (1) As used in this section, "enter" means intrusion of the entire body.

    (2) A person is guilty of criminal trespass if, under circumstances not amounting to burglary as defined in Section 76-6-202, 76-6-203, or 76-6-204 or a violation of Section 76-10-2402 regarding commercial obstruction:

    (a) the person enters or remains unlawfully on property and:

    (i) intends to cause annoyance or injury to any person or damage to any property, including the use of graffiti as defined in Section 76-6-107;

    (ii) intends to commit any crime, other than theft or a felony; or

    (iii) is reckless as to whether his presence will cause fear for the safety of another;

    (b) knowing the person's entry or presence is unlawful, the person enters or remains on property as to which notice against entering is given by:

    (i) personal communication to the actor by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;

    (ii) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders; or

    (iii) posting of signs reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders; or

    (c) the person enters a condominium unit in violation of Subsection 57-8-7(7).

    (3) (a) A violation of Subsection (2)(a) or (b) is a class B misdemeanor unless it was committed in a dwelling, in which event it is a class A misdemeanor.

    (b) A violation of Subsection (2)(c) is an infraction.

    (4) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

    (a) the property was open to the public when the actor entered or remained; and

    (b) the actor's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property.
    Trespass with a firearm applies only to houses of worship and private residences.
    Last edited by rpyne; 03-30-2013 at 10:40 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Here is the part of that huge quote that applies to what I said:
    ...the person enters or remains on property as to which notice against entering is given by:

    (i) personal communication to the actor by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;...
    Management status is not required.

    Churches have an additional set of applicable laws, yes.

    Trespass in private businesses is irrelevant as to being armed or unarmed. I do not think I implied otherwise, but will certainly accept your clarification.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-30-2013 at 11:31 PM.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Churches have an additional set of applicable laws, yes.
    I believe that LDS Churches are the only ones that have taken advantage of those laws... at the last I heard, anyway. Pax...
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    I believe that LDS Churches are the only ones that have taken advantage of those laws... at the last I heard, anyway. Pax...
    They are the only ones who have taken advantage of posting their official policy on the state's website, which is binding. The other churches with similar policies are relying on other forms of official notification.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    (4) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

    (a) the property was open to the public when the actor entered or remained; and

    (b) the actor's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property.
    is also VERY relevant.
    Last edited by rpyne; 03-31-2013 at 04:01 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne View Post
    is also VERY relevant.
    While that is interesting, yes, I don't see it as permission to trespass, nor does it make a distinction between agents of the owner.

    If you choose to remain after being told to leave by any underling, you'd better be SURE that the owner or a higher underling is going to back you up before the police get there.

    Because otherwise, the store can make the case than an armed man refusing to leave is clearly substantially interfering with the owner's use of the property.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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