Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 71

Thread: Shooting in Sterling

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burke/Blacksburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    998

    Shooting in Sterling

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...homeowner-was/

    snip: A homeowner shot Caleb A. Gordley, a junior at Park View High School in Sterling, Va., after going to investigate why an alarm had been activated in the home early Sunday and encountering the teenager on an interior stairwell, according to the Loudoun County sheriff's office.


    I only just heard about this incident from earlier in the week. The stated facts and several comments on the story seem to indicate that the teenager was likely heavily intoxicated. Obviously there is an ongoing investigation, but I was just wondering if any of the folks who are in the area have any additional information to add.

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    I've been following it and have been in discussions with nearby neighbors.

    I think the basic facts as reported are correct.
    As usual, I have my own opinion.

    A. I think the homeowner was legally justified.

    B. I think he got scared and shot when it was not necessary which brings up moral issues.

    C. In all my not so tame youth, I've never been so drunk that I didn't realize a strange man was standing on my stairs with a gun telling me to stop....so I don't think it happened.

    D. I think this is another of those cases where there are no winners. A young man who partied too much which we all have done, with the possible exception of Ed...is dead.
    A homeowner killed him and will have to live with it, may be prosecuted and will certainly face civil action,,, and has had his life changed forever.

    This is simply.....SAD!

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    --snip--

    This is simply.....SAD!
    Sad, unfortunate, and totally irreversible.

    There is a lesson to be learned here.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Sad, unfortunate, and totally irreversible.

    There is a lesson to be learned here.
    Many people I've talked to so far put themselves in the shooters shoes and said I'd have shot him. Since this question keeps coming up, I decided to use a different benchmark.

    I chose several people that were a little more seasoned and asked myself "Would they have fired"...

    So in this case, I looked at you (Grapeshot), Skidmark, Proshooter and User and asked if they would have shot based just on what's been released.

    I don't think any of you would or at least at the point the homeowner did. Maybe I'm wrong.

    My thinking is that:

    Grapeshot would have bought him coffee and taken him home.

    Skidmark would have given him a lecture, called his folks to come get him and given them a lecture.

    User would have educated him on the error of drinking and the danger of sneaking in the wrong house, then taken him home.

    Proshooter would have knocked him down the stairs, then taken him home.
    Last edited by peter nap; 03-20-2013 at 11:11 AM.

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Many people I've talked to so far put themselves in the shooters shoes and said I'd have shot him. Since this question keeps coming up, I decided to use a different benchmark.

    I chose several people that were a little more seasoned and asked myself "Would they have fired"...

    So in this case, I looked at you (Grapeshot), Skidmark, Proshooter and User and asked if they would have shot based just on what's been released.

    I don't think any of you would or at least at the point the homeowner did. Maybe I'm wrong.
    Simple put, "No!"

    Many years ago when my son was a just married young man, I woke up to the sound of my front door shutting. Seconds later my son stepped in the dim doorway to my bedroom completely unannounced - wisdom prevailed. We talked loooong and seriously.......after I put my gun down.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,586
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I've been following it and have been in discussions with nearby neighbors.

    I think the basic facts as reported are correct.
    As usual, I have my own opinion.

    A. I think the homeowner was legally justified.

    B. I think he got scared and shot when it was not necessary which brings up moral issues.

    C. In all my not so tame youth, I've never been so drunk that I didn't realize a strange man was standing on my stairs with a gun telling me to stop....so I don't think it happened.

    D. I think this is another of those cases where there are no winners. A young man who partied too much which we all have done, with the possible exception of Ed...is dead.
    A homeowner killed him and will have to live with it, may be prosecuted and will certainly face civil action,,, and has had his life changed forever.

    This is simply.....SAD!
    The (multi-part) question I have is this: Who did he think (or did he even realize that someone) was pointing a gun at him? Did his own father confront him so often in his own home that he became used to it, perhaps because he frequently used the window to enter/exit his own house?

    Civil action? Doesn't seem likely. Contributory negligence?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burke/Blacksburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    998
    One of the reason that this story particularly piqued my interested is that some of the circumstances are somewhat similar to the one instance where I feel like I was closest to using a firearm in self-defense.

    A few years back I was house-sitting for my parents when, around or after midnight, I saw the silhouette of a man outside a ground-level window, and it appeared as if the individual was attempting to open the window. I immediately grabbed my pistol and then went into the next room to retrieve the phone and call the police. As I was on the phone with dispatch, the individual left the immediate vicinity of the window, and I lost sight of him. Long story short, I stayed on the line with dispatch almost 15 minutes while I waited for officers to show up (pretty ridiculous considering that I could have walked to the nearest police station in about the same amount of time). They found the guy, who was quite drunk, just across the street. He, too, was purportedly attempting to find a different house in the neighborhood.

    With the individual outside the entire time, I was well aware that I would not be justified in using lethal force, and the situation never escalated to the point where I actually thought that the use of my firearm was imminent. However, at the time, I remember thinking that, if a window or door was further tampered with, I would yell a clear warning of some kind to the intruder. If that one warning was ignored, and if entry was forced, I would have taken that as intent to do harm, and I do not believe that the intruder would have made it passed his point of entry.

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    The (multi-part) question I have is this: Who did he think (or did he even realize that someone) was pointing a gun at him? Did his own father confront him so often in his own home that he became used to it, perhaps because he frequently used the window to enter/exit his own house?

    Civil action? Doesn't seem likely. Contributory negligence?
    I don't think he saw the homeowner because I think the homeowner ran out of his bedroom and shot him. That was my point about the story.

    He'll be sued. Remember we live in a day when McDonalds can be sued because their Hot coffee is Hot.

  9. #9
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    234
    I brought this incident up in a previous thread here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Shooting-Stats

    Only time will tell but I doubt the authorities will charge him criminally, civil, can't say but there was someone arguing with the home owner after the incident, which I would venture to say was the boy's parent(s). This is just such a situation that is in the gray and is the last situation one wants to be in. I can't say what I would do but I would hope that I would have verified a real threat before shooting. Would I have my weapon drawn and ready to fire, yes! One report indicated that the home owner fired a warning shot before he shot the boy. Until more facts come out it's hard to speculate...

  10. #10
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I don't think he saw the homeowner because I think the homeowner ran out of his bedroom and shot him. That was my point about the story.

    He'll be sued. Remember we live in a day when McDonalds can be sued because their Hot coffee is Hot.
    Yesterday I saw on the news the mother saying that they forgave the man who shot their son. We'll have to see what develops if and when some shyster ambulance-chancing attorney convinces them otherwise. But as of yesterday, it didn't look like a civil suit was in the picture.

    I did see something this morning where the county is "mulling" over whether or not to bring charges.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 03-20-2013 at 04:03 PM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  11. #11
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Alcohol and teenagers don't mix

    What I'm focusing on, besides the fact the victim snuck out of his own home despite being grounded, is that he went to a party where alcohol was being served then evidently got intoxicated.

    Back in 2005, Delegate Rob Bell had stated he would do something about underage drinking, so he introduced HB2255, which became law:
    Underage drinking and possession of alcohol; penalties. Clarifies the provisions of the crime of underage drinking and alcohol possession. The bill criminalizes underage consumption and punishes anyone who aids or assists in providing alcohol to an underage person with a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    And indeed, that is what the law now says. So, will the investigation include that party and the alcohol being served to minors?

  12. #12
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Yesterday I saw on the news the mother saying that they forgave the man who shot their son. We'll have to see what develops if and when some shyster ambulance-chancing attorney convinces them otherwise. But as of yesterday, it didn't look like a civil suit was in the picture.

    I did see something this morning where the county is "mulling" over whether or not to bring charges.
    According to NBC4, the parents have indeed forgiven the shooter:

    Parents Don't Blame Neighbor in Fatal Shooting of Sterling 16-Year-Old
    The parents of a Sterling teenager who was shot to death by a neighbor early Sunday say they don't fault the man who killed their son.

    "I want you to know sir, I forgive you," said Jennea Gordley, Caleb's mother. "I understand this was an accident. I truly believe everything happens for a reason. My son, he's an angel."

  13. #13
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    "I want you to know sir, I forgive you," said Jennea Gordley, Caleb's mother. "I understand this was an accident. I truly believe everything happens for a reason. My son, he's an angel."
    I can appreciate that we're talking about a grieving family here, but this is a bit much for me to swallow. Their "angel" broke home rules, broke the law, self-intoxicated to the point he didn't even know his own house, apparently disregarded warnings to stop advancing, and was shot. Tragic, yes, but an accident? What part of this was an accident?

    I really don't see that this person needs "forgiving" for anything, and in fact for the family to say that is quite insulting to the guy who felt his life was in danger.

    Was it a terrible thing to happen? Of course. Last I checked, "forgiveness" was required for wrong-doing. If anything, these parents should be asking forgiveness for the illegal actions of their son, the end results of which will no doubt haunt this guy for the rest of his life.

    Am I being too harsh?

    TFred

  14. #14
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post

    Am I being too harsh?

    TFred
    Actually ... no.

    Given our culture, it's rather brave of you, I suppose.

    Note that the family has criticized the Sheriff, which may be either fair or unfair. But the party needs investigating. In particular, were parents or other adults present at that party?

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    ....

    Skidmark would have given him a lecture, called his folks to come get him and given them a lecture.

    ....
    Guilty as charged.

    But they would have been EPIC lectures!

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,171

    In the days of my alusterous youth,

    I was never so drunk I didn't know my own house. Yes, I was not always so conservative and logical, but I never invaded anyone's home.

    Would I have shot him? Probably not at the point the home owner did, but then I have 30 years of experience dealing with people being where they are not supposed to be.

    Was it justified? With the limited facts, (Yes I said FACTS not opinions of friends and parents) available nobody can say if the home owner feared fore their life except them.

    Yes this is a tragedy, but I don't think criminal charges should be placed.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,171
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I can appreciate that we're talking about a grieving family here, but this is a bit much for me to swallow. Their "angel" broke home rules, broke the law, self-intoxicated to the point he didn't even know his own house, apparently disregarded warnings to stop advancing, and was shot. Tragic, yes, but an accident? What part of this was an accident?

    I really don't see that this person needs "forgiving" for anything, and in fact for the family to say that is quite insulting to the guy who felt his life was in danger.

    Was it a terrible thing to happen? Of course. Last I checked, "forgiveness" was required for wrong-doing. If anything, these parents should be asking forgiveness for the illegal actions of their son, the end results of which will no doubt haunt this guy for the rest of his life.

    Am I being too harsh?

    TFred
    No, not at all.

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Am I being too harsh?

    TFred
    Yes, you are TFred. Despite the fact that as parents we don't like it...sneaking out and getting drunk at least once is a rite of passage.
    It calls for a summers grounding....

  19. #19
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yes, you are TFred. Despite the fact that as parents we don't like it...sneaking out and getting drunk at least once is a rite of passage.
    It calls for a summers grounding....
    I see your point, and I won't argue it. But when I hear the parent's "forgiving" the guy, it tells me they consider him to be at fault for the consequences of their son's actions. That's the part I can't swallow.

    ETA: Now if they had said, "we don't hold him at fault..." that's a whole different mindset, and one I could fully support and appreciate that they had reached.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 03-20-2013 at 07:34 PM.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I see your point, and I won't argue it. But when I hear the parent's "forgiving" the guy, it tells me they consider him to be at fault for the consequences of their son's actions. That's the part I can't swallow.

    ETA: Now if they had said, "we don't hold him at fault..." that's a whole different mindset, and one I could fully support and appreciate that they had reached.

    TFred
    I don't understand people like that so I don't try. If it was my son, right or wrong...................

    All I can do is look at reality. Kids are kids and sometimes they are a pain in the azz. They make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

    I'd a lot rather see kids sneak out, get drunk, have a hangover, get grounded and never do it again as a part of growing up, than I would some of the people here that turn 21 and run to get a CHP, then ask advice about how to kill someone and get away with it.

    I think the Homeowner acted legally. I also think he shot when it wasn't necessary. Just my opinion. It wasn't my kid so if his parents want to forgive him that's their business but I sure don't like or support it.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848
    The intruder was shot after he continued to advance after ignoring verbal commands and a warning shot (whatever that is)
    Last edited by ed; 03-20-2013 at 10:07 PM.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    ... a warning shot (whatever that is)
    Some folks call it a miss. Others call it a waste of ammo you might need later on.

    But mostly it is, IMHO, an indication that you did not need to use deadly force right then and there.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Some folks call it a miss. Others call it a waste of ammo you might need later on.

    But mostly it is, IMHO, an indication that you did not need to use deadly force right then and there.

    stay safe.
    Pretty much!

    A 16 year old kid who was too falling down drunk to know he was in the wrong house and was on the steps, was unarmed....and presented enough of a threat to require killing him.
    Last edited by peter nap; 03-20-2013 at 10:57 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Posts
    635

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Am I being too harsh?

    TFred
    No, I agree 100%

  25. #25
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SE Va., , Occupied CSA
    Posts
    366
    OK, so some of you think he should not have shot. Please tell us, in your opinions, just where is the line where you do shoot a home invader, halfway upstairs to you (and your family's) last retreat position, at 2 in the morning (and in the dark, or course), and you see this presumed "tall" (he was a HS varsity basketball player) "man" profile there, and you are half asleep yourself, not believing what you are seeing. After all, this doesn't happen every day, OR to ANY one you know or counsel with. So, you wait, because some on OCDO said you should not shoot, then he straightens up and shoots YOU by surprise?

    I'm seriously interested in the critics defining WHEN you should act in a case like this, just where that imaginary line is that is crossed in justified shootings.

    I was never a pansy kid, but I don't know any one who did such a thing as this, in my growing up days, so I find it not-so-angel-like behaviour.
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •