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Thread: Not that it has anything to do with OC, but the NOVITES will like it

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Not that it has anything to do with OC, but the NOVITES will like it

    Dear Peter

    Earlier today, Governor McDonnell signed my Concealed Carry Confidentiality bill (SB 1335) into law. Now that SB 1335 has been signed, law-abiding Virginians will no longer risk having their private information disclosed simply because they choose to exercise a constitutional right.
    We all saw what happened when a New York newspaper published an interactive map of concealed carry permit-holders on their website: criminals used it to their advantage and law-abiding gun owners were harassed. But what’s even more disturbing is that these lists sometimes disclose the new addresses of victims of domestic violence and others who have a very good reason not to want their contact information in public view.
    The problem wasn’t limited to New York. Prior to the enactment of Senate Bill 1335, a list of the names and addresses of concealed handgun permit holders is available for the asking from any clerks’ office.
    In 2007, the Roanoke Times published a database containing the names and addresses of all concealed carry permit holders in Virginia, later pulled when they realized that they had inadvertently disclosed the new addresses of victims of domestic violence who owned firearms for their own protection.
    Freedom of information is extremely important and transparency in government is essential. That’s why I’ve worked to open up the budget process to closer public scrutiny and, as a member of the Governor’s Commission on Government Reform and Restructuring, have supported proposals to open up government records and make the work of government more transparent. But having a concealed handgun permit shouldn’t land you on a public list.
    With the enactment of this legislation, Virginia will join the majority of states in providing for the confidentiality of concealed handgun permit holders. The list will still be available to clerks’ offices, members of law enforcement, and other government officials entitled to access, but the list will no longer be subject to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests.
    This isn’t a gun bill; it’s a public safety bill. That’s why I worked with the Virginia Court Clerks’ Association, and with clerks across the Commonwealth, on this important bill.
    That New York newspaper treated law-abiding gun owners like criminals and, what’s worse, it put people in danger. That shouldn’t be allowed to happen here in Virginia – and with the enactment of this bill, it can’t anymore.

    When Tim Kaine was Governor, he signed a bill sealing these records with the State Police, but that legislation did not address clerks’ offices, which also have copies of these records. Senate Bill 1335 closes that loophole, and I’m thankful to Governor McDonnell for signing this bill into law. His action is good news for all Virginians.

    Best regards,

    Mark Obenshain


  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The Clerk of the Circuit Court Loophole has been closed!

    This will remove at least 12 gallons of blood per mile of street. It should also reduce the incidence of horses fainting by 37% and of women stampeding by 2.7%.

    Now, if we could somehow get those guns off the streets. They ding up the rocker panels something fierce when I drive over them.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Just yesterday I sent the Governor a message via his website urging him to sign the bill. I'm sure that's why he did it today! Ha ha ha ha!

    On a serious note, thanks for the update. I have been watching the LIS for the status, (which still has not yet been updated to reflect his signature!)

    When I first returned to the interests of gun ownership in the summer of 2008, I was quickly reminded of this horrible breach of privacy. That was when many local newspapers were routinely publishing monthly lists of "who got their CHP this month," including full names and addresses, and of course the famous Roanoke Times fiasco, putting the entire database on-line.

    I guess I'll have to decide what is my new "number one priority" for pro-gun legislation now.

    And one of these days, I just might decide to go ahead and get a Virginia CHP!

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    This isn’t a gun bill; it’s a public safety bill. That’s why I worked with the Virginia Court Clerks’ Association, and with clerks across the Commonwealth, on this important bill.
    I got the same email, except mine was addressed to me (I know some smart arse would've had a comment).

    So, if it was a gun bill he would have ????
    I couldn't care less as I don't have a VA chp but I do think it is stupid to have the chp info as public info
    for anyone to see.


    Now, if we could just get an elected offical to push constitutional carry.
    So far, most seem to lack the spine to introduce and push one.
    Last edited by Marco; 03-22-2013 at 01:41 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Now, if we could just get an elected offical to push constitutional carry.
    So far, most seem to lack the spine to introduce and push one.
    Yep!
    That would solve diluting the transparency laws and P4P.
    Soon maybe!

  7. #7
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    I don't think the P4P's will ever disappear, they MIGHT get diluted. Like tax money once folks get a taste for things they have a hard time giving them up.
    IMHO, many chp'ers would have a hard time giving up there special status (we have been vetted/ good guy creds etc...) and then there's the reciprocity thing.


    Also, I would hate to get Constitutional carry with stupid restrictions like no carry w/ ABC on (like AZ) unless you have a permit or no carry at all in ABC on/off for non permit holder like NM. Or one must notify LE if lawfully stopped by LE like AK.
    (^^^^^ iirc on all accounts as I can't look up and cite now)

    I'm all for the transparency of Gov't laws but imho having CHP info available for all to see was just a bully tactic by the Gov't to keep some folks from wanting to get their permit.
    Last edited by Marco; 03-22-2013 at 10:12 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  8. #8
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I'm all for the transparency of Gov't laws but imho having CHP info available for all to see was just a bully tactic by the Gov't to keep some folks from wanting to get their permit.
    I would disagree slightly. IMHO, I would fully agree that it was a bully tactic against possible CHP holders, but a tactic run by the gun grabbers, including the media, not necessarily "the government". There were and always will be a few legislators who will always support public access to CHP information, but they fall squarely into that "gun-grabber" category.

    I have followed this issue very closely for the past 5 years, and each year prior to this, it died in a lopsided Senate subcommittee and that was very much on purpose. I believe both sides knew full well that if it ever got to the full Senate it would pass (as it did QUITE easily this year, even though the senate is evenly divided 20-20, it passed 31-9.)

    It may not always be the case, but for this issue, I believe the will of the people was finally carried out, by stopping the few gun-grabbing Senators who have thwarted the will of the people on this issue for the past five years.

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Now, if we could just get an elected offical to push constitutional carry.
    Susan Stimpson is for it.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Susan Stimpson is for it.
    Will she carry a bill for us?

    Being "for" something is one thing. Doing something to try to make it a reality is another. AKA "I support the Second Amendment."

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Will she carry a bill for us?

    Being "for" something is one thing. Doing something to try to make it a reality is another. AKA "I support the Second Amendment."

    stay safe.
    She's running for Lt. Governor. I don't think she will be able to carry a bill from that office. But hopefully she will keep the Democratic Senators in line.

    TFred

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I support the Second Amendment.
    Me too Skid.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I would disagree slightly. IMHO, I would fully agree that it was a bully tactic against possible CHP holders, but a tactic run by the gun grabbers, including the media, not necessarily "the government". There were and always will be a few legislators who will always support public access to CHP information, but they fall squarely into that "gun-grabber" category.

    I have followed this issue very closely for the past 5 years, and each year prior to this, it died in a lopsided Senate subcommittee and that was very much on purpose. I believe both sides knew full well that if it ever got to the full Senate it would pass (as it did QUITE easily this year, even though the senate is evenly divided 20-20, it passed 31-9.)

    It may not always be the case, but for this issue, I believe the will of the people was finally carried out, by stopping the few gun-grabbing Senators who have thwarted the will of the people on this issue for the past five years.

    TFred
    Feel free to disagree as much as you like. The elected officals included and failed to remove the bullying tactic. They also failed to enforce the rules that would have prevented the death starr committes.
    They are the Gov't and many are anti, most are neutral and VERY few are pro/our freinds. They had a choice when the law was adopted and every yr since.

    Like I said earlier" the change doesn't effect me" but I view it as the Gov't bullying citizens.
    Last edited by Marco; 03-26-2013 at 01:05 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  14. #14
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Susan Stimpson is for it.
    Since you tossed her name out there.
    Okay, so how is she planning on helping????
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    FWIW, I met Susan Stimpson in Manassas at Chik-fil-a while OC'ing. I don't think she noticed, and she was uninformed that storing a firearm out of view anywhere in a vehicle was NOT considered 'concealed carry' and didn't require a permit. She was impressed with my knowledge of VA gun law and I owe that to all of you. She affirmed to me that she would not support any bill that tried to restrict gun ownership in Virginia. She also affirmed that she would have supported the Bonita Bill when it passed through the GA. My wife spoke to her as well about taxes, schools, and kids and she came away liking Susan. But, that's what politicians do, isn't it?

    In any case, I neglected to turn in my form on time so I won't be at the State Convention this year. The only person I DON'T want to win the convention is Corey Stewart.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defrock View Post
    she was uninformed that storing a firearm out of view anywhere in a vehicle was NOT considered 'concealed carry' and didn't require a permit.
    What? I don't think you have this right.

    There is a requirement for a "secured container." That's a lot different than "stored out of view."

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    What? I don't think you have this right.

    There is a requirement for a "secured container." That's a lot different than "stored out of view."

    TFred
    You're right, I was simply lazy in my wording. I meant to say glove box and closed center console are not concealed storage. Hidden under a seat would be. Susan did believe that storing in a glove box would require a CHP.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defrock View Post
    You're right, I was simply lazy in my wording. I meant to say glove box and closed center console are not concealed storage. Hidden under a seat would be. Susan did believe that storing in a glove box would require a CHP.
    Ah, gotcha.

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    .... AKA "I support the Second Amendment."

    stay safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Me too Skid.
    No, Ed. You protect it and defend in against infringement.

    Some of us are aware of the difference.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Re: Not that it has anything to do with OC, but the NOVITES will like it

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Will she carry a bill for us?

    Being "for" something is one thing. Doing something to try to make it a reality is another. AKA "I support the Second Amendment."

    stay safe.
    I'd rather have the civil liability removed, when found innocent of a justifiable shooting. Constitutional carry is great, though and I would take either.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by mpguy; 03-26-2013 at 11:35 PM.

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    I'd rather have the civil liability removed, when found innocent of a justifiable shooting. Constitutional carry is great, though and I would take either.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    The problem with that MP, is as I understand it, you can't ever have the civil liability removed. The statute can mitigate it to a degree, but it's not possible to completely remove it.

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    Re: Not that it has anything to do with OC, but the NOVITES will like it

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    The problem with that MP, is as I understand it, you can't ever have the civil liability removed. The statute can mitigate it to a degree, but it's not possible to completely remove it.
    That's where I think it's, well stupid. If the guy/gal was shot, had a justified reason for doing so, the shooter civil wise gets punished.

    It shouldn't be this way. If the assailant hadn't caused the problem, said person wouldn't have a chest wound.

    Dad always said, "If you don't go looking for trouble, you won't find it. If it happens to find you...deal with it accordingly."





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  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I doubt anyone will know the answer to this, but it's a shot.

    Do the Clerks of the court keep any records of who comes in to see what stuff? I think the answer is probably "no", because I have spent plenty of time in my local clerk's office looking at land records, with nothing more than a "hey how are you today?" I'm curious if they would keep records of anyone who came to get copies of CHP records. A little different than other records, I don't think they usually leave those sitting out for folks to browse.

    Perhaps if they make copies and have to charge the copy fee, there would be records of that.

    I'm convinced that the media will be out in droves as we near July 1st to get that "last snapshot" of the CHP records.

    TFred

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