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Non-resident question....

Yooper

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Aug 14, 2008
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800
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Houghton County, Michigan, USA
Guess I'll have to save myself potential hassle and take the kel-tec P11......unless I can find any of the 10 rounders that I had for the Glock 17 when the federal AWB was in effect.... though I was probably so joyous when it expired it wouldn't surprise me if I chucked them in the trash.
 

mobiushky

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Alaska (ex-Colorado)
Guess I'll have to save myself potential hassle and take the kel-tec P11......unless I can find any of the 10 rounders that I had for the Glock 17 when the federal AWB was in effect.... though I was probably so joyous when it expired it wouldn't surprise me if I chucked them in the trash.

Not sure you're catching it. If it has a removable base plate, it's not legal. Even if it's less than 5 rounds. The way this law is written bans almost every magazine made. If you're thinking that your 9 rounder is ok, think again. This bill is that over reaching. Removable base plate = banned. Period, no matter what the current capacity. It was written that badly.
 

mobiushky

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Fine. But you seem to be ignoring

Would you agree that this law only applies to CO and people within the borders of state? It does not apply to any other state. Therefore, the grandfather clause also only applies to CO residents. So if you are a resident and you own a magazine you can keep it so long as you do not allow any one else to handle it. This law is so badly written that even the author couldn't explain it when asked recently. The point is, seriuosly, this law basically outlaws firearms. Essentially. It's that stupid.
 

Saxxon

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Aug 3, 2012
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Northglenn, Colorado
Anubis,

The problem for people from out of state is that I doubt any of them want to be the test case for this law. Time, expense, possible jail, loss of rights etc. There is a guy fighting Denver's OC ban based on the state's CCW ban on out of state residents not being able to obtain a Colorado CCW, thus Denver is effectively denying the right to bear arms to all visitors from out of state (save if they are from a state with reciprocity with CO on CCW permits).

Its bad enough being a test case in Colorado as a resident (trust me, I know being one of a sort). Out of state, you need to be wealthy with a lot fo free time. Thats what liberal statists rely on, the common people do not have the means to challenge their tyrannical laws.
 

Anubis

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Sep 16, 2006
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Arapahoe County CO, ,
Would you agree that this law only applies to CO and people within the borders of state?

Yes, exactly: the state and anyone who lives in or enters the state. So my position is that if I am a state resident now owning a Glock 17 I am legal after July 1. Similarly, if I am a Nebraska resident who now owns a Glock 17, I am legal if I visit Colorado after July 1. I understand that's not your position; we simply disagree.
 
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mobiushky

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Messages
830
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Alaska (ex-Colorado)
Yes, exactly: the state and anyone who lives in or enters the state. So my position is that if I am a state resident now owning a Glock 17 I am legal after July 1. Similarly, if I am a Nebraska resident who now owns a Glock 17, I am legal if I visit Colorado after July 1. I understand that's not your position; we simply disagree.

My position? Have you read the legal analysis from the various lawyers including Dave Kopel and Holland and Hart. After july 1st, any mag that crosses the border is illegal. Not my opinion, legal analysis of law as written. But no, let's water it down so it sounds less offensive? No, let's get it repealed.

Having said that, there is zero way to prove any of it. So just say, "I've had it all the time." No dates, no serials, no proof. No way to enforce this unconstitutional law.
 
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Vader33

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Jan 1, 2013
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Location
Littleton, CO
Having said that, there is zero way to prove any of it. So just say, "I've had it all the time." No dates, no serials, no proof. No way to enforce this unconstitutional law.

If a person cannot prove they owned the mag before July 1st, then the state does not have to prove they did not own it before July 1st.

It's written THAT badly.




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Vader33

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Littleton, CO
But realistically, who is even going to know? No Range Master, gun store owner, or any gun fan is going to turn you in to Johnny Law if they see a mag with a detachable base plate and/or a hi-cap mag. Unless they're communist. Or from California. Which I'm convinced is the same thing.

All kidding aside, if you're driving form out of state, keep the gun put away and don't get pulled over. Then when you get to the grandparent's house, go somewhere legal to shoot.

Quit using worst-case scenarios as the absolute. We'll get this repealed soon enough.


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mobiushky

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Messages
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Alaska (ex-Colorado)
But realistically, who is even going to know? No Range Master, gun store owner, or any gun fan is going to turn you in to Johnny Law if they see a mag with a detachable base plate and/or a hi-cap mag. Unless they're communist. Or from California. Which I'm convinced is the same thing.

All kidding aside, if you're driving form out of state, keep the gun put away and don't get pulled over. Then when you get to the grandparent's house, go somewhere legal to shoot.

Quit using worst-case scenarios as the absolute. We'll get this repealed soon enough.


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The reason I bring up the worst case is because I guarantee you on July 1 you will not be able to buy a handgun in CO that has a magazine (some rifles as well). Manufacturers will ship them the same way they do to NY. No mags at all. And all of the magazines will be taken off the shelves the night before. Because no manufacturer or store will be willing to take on the liability of running a fowl of the new laws. So essentially you will not legally be allowed to purchase a viable firearm with a removable magazine after that date. You can buy the gun, but you won't be able to legally purchase the mags for it. That's not "worst case" that's pretty much reality.

Now, as for the bottom line of the law? Of course it's completely untenable. No individual person is actually going to obey the law and not a whole lot of LEO's will enforce it. And even if they did, the DA's will be less inclined to prosecute them. So where the rubber meets the road it's all huff n puff with no teeth. The problem is as Saxxon said, do you want to be the first out of stater to test the laws?

I won't personally advocate breaking the laws. I'll just say, I think the OP has little to really worry about in terms of actual enforcement and they can make up their own mind about the risk they are taking.
 

Vader33

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Littleton, CO
The reason I bring up the worst case is because I guarantee you on July 1 you will not be able to buy a handgun in CO that has a magazine (some rifles as well). Manufacturers will ship them the same way they do to NY. No mags at all. And all of the magazines will be taken off the shelves the night before. Because no manufacturer or store will be willing to take on the liability of running a fowl of the new laws. So essentially you will not legally be allowed to purchase a viable firearm with a removable magazine after that date. You can buy the gun, but you won't be able to legally purchase the mags for it. That's not "worst case" that's pretty much reality.

Now, as for the bottom line of the law? Of course it's completely untenable. No individual person is actually going to obey the law and not a whole lot of LEO's will enforce it. And even if they did, the DA's will be less inclined to prosecute them. So where the rubber meets the road it's all huff n puff with no teeth. The problem is as Saxxon said, do you want to be the first out of stater to test the laws?

I won't personally advocate breaking the laws. I'll just say, I think the OP has little to really worry about in terms of actual enforcement and they can make up their own mind about the risk they are taking.

I agree with what you say about buying guns with no mags, because I feel that it's probably going to happen. Unless gun manufacturers start shipping guns with "Colorado legal" mags. I hear that's what S&W does in California.


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mobiushky

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Alaska (ex-Colorado)
I agree with what you say about buying guns with no mags, because I feel that it's probably going to happen. Unless gun manufacturers start shipping guns with "Colorado legal" mags. I hear that's what S&W does in California.


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Agreed, just keep in mind this is where the particularly nasty part of the law hits. Because the law says that the magazine has to be "permanently altered" so that is cannot be extended, manufacturers are going to have to redesign their mags to be solid bottom. Something that cannot be removed. In CA, the mags are essentially larger capacity mags with blocks or stops in them that prevent more than 10. But everyone knows how to remove those blocks and stops to extend the mag. The mags would have to be completely incapable of being altered. Now it's theoretically possible that companies like S&W will redesign their mags, but is that reality? Or is it reality that they simply stop selling mags to CO? Which from a realist, means on July 1 there will be no more mags in CO. And unless the manufacturers decide to make 2 different types of mags, there will be no OEM mags.

Of course it probably won't be long before companies like butler or whatever start making cheap plastic knock off mags that are like their 10/22 mags. And they'll sell them for $100 each.
 

Yooper

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Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
800
Location
Houghton County, Michigan, USA
But realistically, who is even going to know? No Range Master, gun store owner, or any gun fan is going to turn you in to Johnny Law if they see a mag with a detachable base plate and/or a hi-cap mag. Unless they're communist. Or from California. Which I'm convinced is the same thing.

All kidding aside, if you're driving form out of state, keep the gun put away and don't get pulled over. Then when you get to the grandparent's house, go somewhere legal to shoot.

Quit using worst-case scenarios as the absolute. We'll get this repealed soon enough.


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That's the hard part for me :) I tend to have a lead foot.
 

fighting_for_freedom

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Joined
Feb 3, 2009
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223
Location
Pagosa Springs, Colorado, USA
You could get pulled over, no big deal. Just remember, ya don't have to let anyone search your car. Cop says, "Can I search your car?", and you say "Nope". And cop says, "Well, since you won't let me search your car, I suspect you may have committed a crime." So you say, "According to the Supreme Court, the simple assertation of a right is not probable cause. Am I free to leave?"

End of encounter.
 

Vader33

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Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
65
Location
Littleton, CO
You could get pulled over, no big deal. Just remember, ya don't have to let anyone search your car. Cop says, "Can I search your car?", and you say "Nope". And cop says, "Well, since you won't let me search your car, I suspect you may have committed a crime." So you say, "According to the Supreme Court, the simple assertation of a right is not probable cause. Am I free to leave?"

End of encounter.

While true, this is easier said than done. Have you ever had an LEO ask to search your car and you decline? I have, and though I had nothing illegal on me or in my vehicle, Johnny Law didn't just walk away and it was "end of encounter." They will literally find a way to establish just the slightest bit of RAS to search. In my case, they saw a "suspicious" bag in my back seat that "matched the description" of a bag "used in a shoplifting." It was my backpack, full of school books. I was pulled over doing 53 in a 35 and the cop was a friggin Dee-ock looking for pot.


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Vader33

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Jan 1, 2013
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Littleton, CO
Back to the OP's OP...

The law doesn't say anything about out-of-staters, so I think it may be safe to assume that you can bring in 16+ round mags given they were owned before the ban.


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mobiushky

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Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)
Back to the OP's OP...

The law doesn't say anything about out-of-staters, so I think it may be safe to assume that you can bring in 16+ round mags given they were owned before the ban.


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I agree with the middle, disagree with the rest. Here's why. State laws don't cross the borders. Simple case, I'm doing 75 in CO and cross into KS where for some reason they've dropped the speed limit to 35. The fact that I was obeying CO law before I entered KS doesn't mean I can drive 75 in KS. That may not be the best analogy, but the point is you didn't own the mags under CO law prior to the date because you weren't a resident of CO.

NOW, the reason I think he's be safe is because the law is unenforceable. And I don't believe any LEO's will truly enforce it except for the ones you yourself mentioned that stopped you looking for pot. And that LEO IS going to try to enforce the law on out of staters. At which point he's lose the mags during the "investigation" and probably won't ever get it back. But that's the 1% of LEO's that are all about color of law instead of enforcing the law. Anyway, I think the OP will be fine because no one's going to care.

HOWEVER, and this is something to think about. Commission of a crime while in possession of an illegal mag is a pretty hefty offense under this law. Now let's say you defend your self against an attacker in a convenience store and have to shoot the attacker dead. You better hope the defense plays out right or you could be facing a major problem. And you can certainly bet the attorney's for the BG's family will be suing the crap out of you and trying to paint you as a villain because or your scary evil mag. I know it's all stupid. But that's where this place is headed. And to be blunt, I don't see it changing even in 2014.
 
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