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Thread: Courthouse- downtown Tacoma

  1. #1
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Courthouse- downtown Tacoma

    So, in a resurrected thread, GoGo asked if anyone had any recent experience at the Courthouse, downtown Tacoma.

    I had business there, and decided to go early and "go" through the process for checking my sidearm....I intentionally did not argue, debate the law, or in any other way make a fuss with officer Friendly.

    I stood in the lower level entry and got the attention of security and said I needed to check a firearm....the security guy was friendly, and gave me directions to go to the second floor, back entrance (I knew this, but wanted to see how they handled the question).

    I then proceeded to the 2nd story back entrance and after entering, got the attention of another security guard and said "I need to check a firearm"... he was mildly confused by my request, but recovered and contacted Pierce County Sherriff's dept. for assistance.

    I had to exit and come back in, and just on the right of the right of the entry, was a door. The officer, came up and directed me into the room. The room had two types of lock boxes, some with key's like the airport, others were older style, but did not have individual keys. The officer had them on his ring....

    I decided, also to do this concealed carry, to see what kind of response or inquiry for my documents he may make...

    He was very professional, opened the locker, I took my (loaded, locked and cocked 1911) out of my holster, verified the safety on and placed in the locker. He suggested that I also put it in the holster, as it was likely the security folks wouldn't quite now what to do with the empty holster along with my belt and other stuff when I went through security. I took my belt off and stripped the holster, reached into the locker and withdrew my pistol and stuck in the holster and put the whole works back in the locker (I also positioned it so I could tell if it was moved)...

    He had me fill out a short form, locked the door and handed me a plastized "locker #6" retreival card and that was it. Didn't ask for my ID, CPL and let me handle the firearm loaded, twice...no worries.

    I pressed him for the key, but he said you get the card, not a key...I let it pass and went about my business...couple hours later, ready to leave, reversed the steps, he attended me while he opened the locker, I took the gun out, still in the holster, rebelted it, shook hands....thank you very much ...have a nice weekend, sir, says officer Friendly and I'm on my way....

    Except for the key thing, Really no tribble at all, the retrieval card was not an issue....and I am confident the gun stayed in the locker while I was conducting my business...

    So, there it is...
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Thanks JT, excellent report.
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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Re: Courthouse- downtown Tacoma

    Wow, very much not the reaction that I got about a year ago during the middle of the day. I'm glad that they fixed the issues. Well done!

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    This was not my experience this last fall. Glad it went well for you.
    WA Guns
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
    This was not my experience this last fall. Glad it went well for you.
    Correct, some things have changed since last fall, the entire room and lock boxes are new.


    Care to share your experience last fall?
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    All court houses?

    Not to hijack this thread but could we make this about ALL the court houses?

    Or would everyone like a separate thread for that? It would be a good thing to track the happenings at the different court houses.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Correct, some things have changed since last fall, the entire room and lock boxes are new.


    Care to share your experience last fall?
    Sure, here is the email I sent.
    Mr. Dorman,

    Today I had business at the Pierce County City Building. I went to the main entrance and was denied the ability to have my weapon secured. They explained(which is not posted on any sign nor on the PC Web Site) that I needed to go to another entrance. I arrived 10 minutes early to handle any security concerns, this was apparently not enough time because the walk to the other side cause me to hit high traffic time and it took 15 minutes for the Pierce County Sheriff Deputy to come out and secure my weapon. This made me late to my appointment and it didn’t seem to be a concern to your security staff nor the PC Deputy.

    Upon my leaving, your security staff told me to wait in the “corridor” between the outside and inside doors. Then they commenced to discuss loudly how carrying a gun is not the right thing to do and how they think people are idiots who do. Specifically a larger black employee. This was before he went to break. Then, the PC Deputy’s(more than one this time) took over 30 minutes to come out and take my driver’s license and locker ticket.

    This is just unacceptable. What should have been a minor but routine situation was not only handled poorly it was unprofessional. It is sad to know that not only was I treated unfairly because I chose to carry a legal firearm and also ridiculed for it. I feel this needs direct attention and I hope you are the person who can address these concerns.

    Thank You,
    Response
    Mr. XXXXXXX,

    Thank you for your email of October 24, 2012 in which you expressed concern regarding your ability to check in your firearm when you visited the County City Building. I have completed the review I indicated I would in my recent email response to you and want to share the outcome of the review with you as promised.

    In your email you stated “I went to the main entrance and was denied the ability to have my weapon secured” when you arrived at the 1st floor entrance of the County City Building. Security officers assigned to the screening checkpoints are trained to direct visitors who legally possess firearms to the 2nd floor entrance where they may check in their firearm with Pierce County Sheriff’s Department Court Security Unit deputies. The review indicates security staff directed you to the 2nd floor entrance of the courthouse to secure your weapon in accordance with procedure and did not deny you the ability to store your weapon while in the courthouse.

    Regarding your concerns with sheriff’s deputies; I do not supervise deputies assigned to the sheriff’s department Court Security Unit and therefore do not investigate allegations of misconduct involving sheriff’s deputies. If you wish to make a complaint against a deputy you will need to contact the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department.

    The County City Building does experience a high volume of traffic at the screening checkpoints which may result in delays periodically. Please allow adequate time for the screening process and firearm check in when you visit the County City Building.

    Again, thank you for contacting me with your concerns and allowing me the opportunity to review and respond.

    Respectfully,

    Mike Dorman
    Security Manager
    Pierce County
    My response
    Thank you Mr. Dorman for your response.

    Regarding the entrance; Is it possible to post on the door and on your web site so non-frequent visitors will know ahead of time to go to the second entrance? I arrived early but having this information would have prepared me(and anyone else with a legal weapon) to avoid the confusion.

    Regarding the unprofessional comments; This was made by the contract staff and not the sheriff deputies. I believe this is in your authority of supervision.
    No response since 11/13/2012
    WA Guns
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  8. #8
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Not to hijack this thread but could we make this about ALL the court houses?

    Or would everyone like a separate thread for that? It would be a good thing to track the happenings at the different court houses.
    It may be worth while, but if so, a revised thread and new header...and made a sticky...you guys decide.

    This court house has gotten a lot of attention over time, just because it has been so problematic.....and I'm not saying that it isn't still. Maybe I just got a good guy today.....

    I've been to Jefferson, Clallam, Mason and some east siders where it just isn't an issue at all. Jefferson and Clallam have unattended lock boxes down a hall and outside of the courthouse access. Once you know where they are, you don't even need to talk to an officer at all! Just put them in the box and take the key...

    anyway,
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    It may be worth while, but if so, a revised thread and new header...and made a sticky...you guys decide.

    This court house has gotten a lot of attention over time, just because it has been so problematic.....and I'm not saying that it isn't still. Maybe I just got a good guy today.....

    I've been to Jefferson, Clallam, Mason and some east siders where it just isn't an issue at all. Jefferson and Clallam have unattended lock boxes down a hall and outside of the courthouse access. Once you know where they are, you don't even need to talk to an officer at all! Just put them in the box and take the key...

    anyway,
    The Snohomish County Court house in Everett demands ID + CPL for pistol storage.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Not to hijack this thread but could we make this about ALL the court houses?

    Or would everyone like a separate thread for that? It would be a good thing to track the happenings at the different court houses.
    If you want a thread about all court houses feel free to start one.

  11. #11
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    And if you do start one you should ask to sticky it.....
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  12. #12
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    What information did they request on the form you filled out?
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    What information did they request on the form you filled out?
    Birth Certificate, photo ID, Passport #, current address, two previous address', phone number, next of kin not living with me, credit report, credit score, explanation letter, current bank account number and average daily balance, two years of Tax forms, employement status, employment verification notice....

    Oh, wait...I'm sorry that was for my re-finance package with BOA for a reduction in interest rate on a my mortgage that I've made every payment on for, ON TIME, for the last 10 years.

    The Sherriff just needed my printed name (legible) and signature that they recieved my pistol and locked it up....nothing else....didn't ask for ID at all.
    Last edited by jt59; 03-27-2013 at 02:10 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sempercarry View Post
    Things are better now, no?
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    Dunno. Uncle Sam has kept me pretty busy the last couple years so I haven't been back. I turned the camera off and walked out. The officer followed me and asked if it was recording. I told him it was. He asked to see the camera and I asked if I was being detained. He said get out of here and don't come back....or something like that. I hope it has gotten better.

  17. #17
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sempercarry View Post
    Dunno. Uncle Sam has kept me pretty busy the last couple years so I haven't been back. I turned the camera off and walked out. The officer followed me and asked if it was recording. I told him it was. He asked to see the camera and I asked if I was being detained. He said get out of here and don't come back....or something like that. I hope it has gotten better.
    Well, I've only done it once, and it was much different than your video. Directly behind where you were standing is now a door and room with the lockers that hold your sidearm...the officer I dealt with was professional, straight forward and left my Kimber untouched in the locker, chambered safety on in its holster....but I would say yes, it has gotten better.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Quote Originally Posted by sempercarry View Post
    Dunno. Uncle Sam has kept me pretty busy the last couple years so I haven't been back. I turned the camera off and walked out. The officer followed me and asked if it was recording. I told him it was. He asked to see the camera and I asked if I was being detained. He said get out of here and don't come back....or something like that. I hope it has gotten better.
    Armchair QB here, but I was thinking that after his last comment there, you should have stuck around and greeted a few people. After all it's public property and you have every right to be there. Good work on refusing him access to the camera though, he would have obviously deleted your recording.
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