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Thread: Super Group

  1. #1
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Super Group

    Can MGO, MOC and MCRGO come together and make one powerful 2nd amendment group?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Super Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Can MGO, MOC and MCRGO come together and make one powerful 2nd amendment group?
    I say no. Each group has a different and focus different operating methodology. What's more is one of the groups doesn't even have Popular elections from a membership. Their Board of Directors chooses their successors, kind of like a "good old boy club".

    One group has paid staff, the other two are 100% volunteer.

    It's group has a different purpose and the contraption. Oftentimes when we talk to legislators, I am the bad cop and Brady is the good cop.
    Last edited by TheQ; 03-22-2013 at 07:24 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I say no. Each group has a different and focus different operating methodology. What's more is one of the groups doesn't even have Popular elections from a membership. Their Board of Directors chooses their successors, kind of like a "good old boy club".

    One group has paid staff, the other two are 100% volunteer.

    It's group has a different purpose and the contraption. Oftentimes when we talk to legislators, I am the bad cop and Brady is the good cop.
    It seems to me that this way we are also splintered.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Super Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    It seems to me that this way we are also splintered.
    If we work together and coordinate, we are united.

    What you saw earlier this week and what you saw during the last legislative session was a united front. We need more of that.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Here's an observation- if you have a paid membership in more than one organization, your 'presence' is multiplied.

    Example; we have three organizations with paid membership of 100 each, when combined, the press releases say that the 'combined membership of x, y and z (300 paid members) demand that their legislators strike the letter 'Q' from the alphabet.'

    Yeah, its just 100 people, but they all have paid membership in all three groups.

    Modern math meets political science.

    I encourage EVERYONE to become a paid member of EVERY legitimate pro 2A group in Michigan; in numbers, there is strength. (You can skip the impotent ones.)
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Super Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Here's an observation- if you have a paid membership in more than one organization, your 'presence' is multiplied.

    Example; we have three organizations with paid membership of 100 each, when combined, the press releases say that the 'combined membership of x, y and z (300 paid members) demand that their legislators strike the letter 'Q' from the alphabet.'

    Yeah, its just 100 people, but they all have paid membership in all three groups.

    Modern math meets political science.

    I encourage EVERYONE to become a paid member of EVERY legitimate pro 2A group in Michigan; in numbers, there is strength. (You can skip the impotent ones.)
    This is an absolutely awesome point! The more the merrier so long as everyone is working towards the same goal. Different approaches are not always a bad thing.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  7. #7
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    I encourage EVERYONE to become a paid member of EVERY legitimate pro 2A group in Michigan; in numbers, there is strength. (You can skip the impotent ones.)
    The problem with having a political voice to get things done on a wider scale isn't so much money for memberships, as a lack of unified participation. It is both a blessing and a curse to have the midwest work ethic on our side. Everyone wants to jump on board and get things done, yet many want to do it their own "better" way. Others turn it into a pyramid scheme and destroy organizations.

    For those reasons, we have accomplished a lot, yet we lack the united front enjoyed in states like Arizona and Virginia.

    What is needed is an agreement of goals and desires in terms of gun rights, and emails going to all in these different org's, and anyone else who wants them, in order to call people to action, be it writing emails, calling in, showing up places or sending money as the case may be. Specialized legal or political moves can already be done by leadership of the different orgs as it exists now, and doesn't really require too much more thought apart from what already exists. All that is needed is simple agreed upon goals, and coordinated communication which really shouldn't be all that hard with the internet.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    The problem with having a political voice to get things done on a wider scale isn't so much money for memberships, as a lack of unified participation. It is both a blessing and a curse to have the midwest work ethic on our side. Everyone wants to jump on board and get things done, yet many want to do it their own "better" way. Others turn it into a pyramid scheme and destroy organizations.

    For those reasons, we have accomplished a lot, yet we lack the united front enjoyed in states like Arizona and Virginia.

    What is needed is an agreement of goals and desires in terms of gun rights, and emails going to all in these different org's, and anyone else who wants them, in order to call people to action, be it writing emails, calling in, showing up places or sending money as the case may be. Specialized legal or political moves can already be done by leadership of the different orgs as it exists now, and doesn't really require too much more thought apart from what already exists. All that is needed is simple agreed upon goals, and coordinated communication which really shouldn't be all that hard with the internet.

    I don't know that even this is possible.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    The problem with having a political voice to get things done on a wider scale isn't so much money for memberships, as a lack of unified participation. It is both a blessing and a curse to have the midwest work ethic on our side. Everyone wants to jump on board and get things done, yet many want to do it their own "better" way. Others turn it into a pyramid scheme and destroy organizations.

    For those reasons, we have accomplished a lot, yet we lack the united front enjoyed in states like Arizona and Virginia.

    What is needed is an agreement of goals and desires in terms of gun rights, and emails going to all in these different org's, and anyone else who wants them, in order to call people to action, be it writing emails, calling in, showing up places or sending money as the case may be. Specialized legal or political moves can already be done by leadership of the different orgs as it exists now, and doesn't really require too much more thought apart from what already exists. All that is needed is simple agreed upon goals, and coordinated communication which really shouldn't be all that hard with the internet.
    Much like the various 'Christian' denominations, we have 98% in common, yet the 2% divides us well out of proportion. For example, baptism- sprinkle or dunk, adult or infant. In the grand scheme of things, only small minds make this a big issue.

    I have no doubt that we can articulate the 98% we all agree on, and develop a cohesive front against those who would oppose us.

    It is possible, with open minds.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  10. #10
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    I don't know that even this is possible.
    I think shadow bear is correct in the 2% assessment. The 98% of us who are in agreement can do as we please.

    The issue is simple. Apart from hard liner fudds and Ted Nugent acolytes, we all agree that we want people to be able to safely and responsibly carry what they want where they want how they want. The sheer number of CPL holders in this state should be something of an indication that people value the right to carry weapons. I don't even think there would be much disagreement on special interest issues such as legalizing switch blades, or issues related to carrying while hunting, etc. We all pretty much will say yes, that would be best, so let's remove those restrictions...

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    I hereby call upon the leadership of MOC, MGO, MCRGO, et al, to convene a congress to develop a joint document outlining the common objectives of the the participating organizations, with a plan to publish this document to all parties, public or private, that have sway over our basic human rights regarding life, and the preservation of life.

    I stand ready to assist in any way that I may.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  12. #12
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Super Group

    To comment on Michiganders post AZCDL now has 8,000 paying members & is a 100% volunteer org. It can be done in MI too, if we can get past the rifts to become a serious force. As it stands now some things are getting done, this is great news. Now, imagine this super group with 10,000 paying members & a annual budget of $500,000. Such a group could move Mountains in Lansing. What most in Lansing won't admit is this: even a small active group can cause them considerable pain. Hell I forced a state rep. to take out a large loan to maintain the seat in the house they had. My staff & budget? Two volunteers and two hundred dollars worth of fliers. They narrowly won their re-election bid (500+) votes. My point: well organized, well funded groups are enough to make folks in Lansing wake up in the middle of the night with "cold sweats".

    In short - in Lansing money speaks volumes. with it a group is respected/feared. Without it they are a bunch of zealots to be blown off and ignored. Not right, but that's the cold hard truth.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 03-23-2013 at 02:32 PM.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  13. #13
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    I would just like to add one more point to the pot. Multiple organizations = multiple amicus briefs.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    I hereby call upon the leadership of MOC, MGO, MCRGO..................
    Another factor for success is getting CPL class instructors on board. Simply put, we need everyone who wants freedom from oppression in regards to arming themselves to stand up and demand it. And we need a system where it's easy, convenient and organized to do so.

  15. #15
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    To comment on Michiganders post AZCDL now has 8,000 paying members & is a 100% volunteer org. It can be done in MI too, if we can get past the rifts to become a serious force. As it stands now some things are getting done, this is great news. Now, imagne this super group with 10,000 paying members & a annual budget of $500,000. Such a group could move Mountains in Lansing. What most in Lansing won't admit is this: even a small active group can cause them considerable pain. Hell I forced a state rep. to take out a large loan to maintain the seat in the house they had. My staff & budget? Two volunteers and two hundred dollars worth of fliers. They narrowly won their re-election bid (500+) votes. My point: well organized, well funded groups are enough to make folks in Lansing wake up in the middle of the night with "cold sweats".

    In short - in Lansing money speaks volumes. with it a group is respected/feared. Without it they are a bunch of zealots to be blown off and ignored. Not right, but that's the cold hard truth.
    There are 2 100% volunteer organizations in Michigan. Pick one, join it...or start your own.

    I noticed you did the former already
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  16. #16
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Super Group

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    There are 2 100% volunteer organizations in Michigan. Pick one, join it...or start your own.

    I noticed you did the former already
    Yep - even though I may not always agree with the current president, I am smart enough to see the value in such a group. If not for anything else other than "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". There are lots of enemies in Lansing people. We should focus on them first! Once they have been dealt with we can work out our issues with each other, one way or another. . Q has suggested airsoft duels in the past, I say if it stops the pi$$ing and moaning let's rumble! :thumbup:
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 03-23-2013 at 07:30 PM.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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