Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Gun Forum Conventional Wisdom

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    101

    Gun Forum Conventional Wisdom

    There is a lot of “conventional wisdom” on gun message boards such as:
    1. OC must have a retention strap
    2. You need to have at least a 9mm or you may as well be unarmed.
    3. A CHP badge is "always" a bad idea.
    4. OCing is just asking for trouble.

    Personally I think that this wisdom is in error because:

    1. Retention
    Most people say that you should never OC with a tension only holster;
    I think that a lot of the people who make such claims have never actually been in a life threatening situation or had someone pointing a gun at them. They don’t know about the adrenaline spike they are going to have or that your mind will go on auto pilot for a few seconds as the flight or fight syndrome takes over. When this happens a lot of people will be unable to work their level 3 retention holsters, including LEO’s which is why they often disable at least one of those devices (i.e. the hood) on their holsters.

    2. Toy Guns
    In the macho rhetoric anything less than a 9mm is considered worthless; even 9mm is sometimes laughed at. Personally right now my mixture of OC/CC is about 50/50. Maybe one day I will turn into Peter Nap and laugh about all of you permit holders. Anyhow when I am carrying concealed I only have a pocket 380. Will it do the damage of a 45; of course not. But in most situations it will be far more effective as I am actually carrying it as opposed to the tough guy with the 45 who left it at home because he was just going down the street to the grocery store.

    3. CHP Badges
    Overall I think that they are a bad idea. For someone who open carries they are a horrible idea. However one of our poor concealed carry only brothers might one night find themselves being approached by ten thugs looking for justice for past inequality and that badge not their element of surprise might be the only thing that saves their lives.

    4. OCing is asking for trouble.
    It seems to me that most people don’t even take note of OC. Those that do tend to be criminals, cops and concealed carriers. Criminals tend to run like cock roaches, cops here in Virginia seem to be well aware of the law thanks to the past battles from our older VCDL brethren. And having to listen to some stupid arguments from a concealed only carrier for a minute or two is a small price to pay in the big scheme of things. I think I had one of them next to me at Walmart the other night, he stood a few feet away staring when I was looking at the depleted ammo supply and I guess I didn’t look like I was in a talkative mood as he never said anything.
    Last edited by Mongoose72; 03-23-2013 at 10:13 AM.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Stafford, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    341
    I guess I don't understand your point. Were there impied questions behind those 4 statements?

    I must be largely "unconventional".

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by jegoodin View Post
    I guess I don't understand your point. Were there impied questions behind those 4 statements?

    I must be largely "unconventional".
    Sorry if it was unclear. I added an additional statement to my original post to make my train of thought more clear. My purpose of the 4 rebuttal statements is that they stand in contrast to the general consensus of gun forum wisdom. For instance just because say 99% of people will argue that you must allows use a level II or higher holster to prevent gun grabs does not make their argument sound. All 4 of the points are challenging the conventional wisdom or general consensus of most forums by showing their logical errors or false assumptions.
    Last edited by Mongoose72; 03-23-2013 at 10:16 AM.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Stafford, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose72 View Post
    Sorry if it was unclear. I added an additional statement to my original post to make my train of thought more clear. My purpose of the 4 rebuttal statements is that they stand in contrast to the general consensus of gun forum wisdom. For instance just because say 99% of people will argue that you must allows use a level II or higher holster to prevent gun grabs does not make their argument sound. All 4 of the points are challenging the conventional wisdom or general consensus of most forums by showing their logical errors or false assumptions.
    We must read different gun forums...

    My casual observations:
    1) retention holsters are good, but doesn't necessarily mean retention strap
    2) control wins out over caliber
    3) badges are always a bad idea
    4) open carry is gaining in acceptance and at least on this forum is widely accepted.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by jegoodin View Post
    We must read different gun forums...

    My casual observations:
    1) retention holsters are good, but doesn't necessarily mean retention strap
    2) control wins out over caliber
    3) badges are always a bad idea
    4) open carry is gaining in acceptance and at least on this forum is widely accepted.
    1. Using percentages I would say that less than 10% on the forum would recommend OCing with a tension only holster. I think that Skidmark is the exception as he uses a Kydex/leather hybrid tension only. I personally have used both a tension only as well as a thumb break. I currently am looking into customizing a leather holster with a removable strap/ hood.

    2. Usually when the accuracy argument is given it is done to defend the usage of a 9mm instead of a higher caliber. Almost no one I have read would recommend a .380 pocket pistol as your everyday carry.

    3. I think in general badges are a bad idea and I have no intention of ever having one; however in the scenario I gave it could save someone’s life. I used to deliver pizzas and I once stopped an armed robber by pushing a 2 liter into his face. Another time I used my car’s headlights to blind the would be robber. Sometimes for self defense we need to think outside the box; especially if we are ever in an area or a job where we aren’t allowed to carry.

    4. I used to come to Virginia Beach 2 weeks per year and always saw at least 2 people OCing per week. I have now lived here 6 months and have seen no one doing it outside of gun related events except myself. I think at least in this area there has been a sharp decline; the number of places restricting it might be a cause. Or maybe the hot weather will cause more people not to cover up; I guess I will see in a couple of months.
    Last edited by Mongoose72; 03-23-2013 at 04:35 PM.

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose72 View Post

    4. I used to come to Virginia Beach 2 weeks per year and always saw at least 2 people OCing per week. I have now lived here 6 months and have seen no one doing it outside of gun related events except myself..
    Maybe one of the guys OCing was dating the other OCer's wife and ... you get the picture

    Keep on carrying ....

  7. #7
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    172
    I'm in VA beach today. I have seen 3 OC'ers. Including me makes 4. Last time I was here saw at least 20-24 between moms kitchen and all around pizza

    All the places restricting OC now? Which ones?

    The businesses offering a discount for OCing make up for it
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by HearseGuy View Post
    I'm in VA beach today. I have seen 3 OC'ers. Including me makes 4. Last time I was here saw at least 20-24 between moms kitchen and all around pizza

    All the places restricting OC now? Which ones?

    The businesses offering a discount for OCing make up for it
    I would consider such places as Momís and All Around Pizza to be part of the OC events as they are actively encouraging OC with their discounts. I used to see OC in Pembrooke and Lynnhaven mall even though I think they have been posted for years. Wawa and Walmart are 2 other places that I have seen it in the past. I go to BJs, Walmart, Food lion, Wawa, etc.(all the gun friendly places) and havenít seen anyone in 6 months. I have a friend who moved here a 2 years ago and he works for one of the delivery services so he is visiting dozens of businesses a day and he was in shock when I told him that I had started to OCed; he didnít even know that it was legal as he had never seen it done.

  9. #9
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    172
    Make that 5. Just saw another a Lynhavenn Walmart
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    43

    Gun Forum Conventional Wisdom

    I'm in virginia beach and I open carry everywhere and yes it is posted at lynnhaven mall no firearms. Other than that and ricks diner I have not found anywhere that I visit that restricts carry.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, WY
    Posts
    234
    I live in VA Beach, and I OC everywhere. On the rare occasion I CC it's usually just because it's cold and my jacket is covering. Other than the mall, I haven't seen anywhere that's unfriendly toward OCers. Yes, Mom's Kitchen and All Around Pizza are offering a discount so they tend to get more attention, but I try to support ALL businesses that are either pro-2nd amendment or neutral regardless of discounts or not.

    Also, I imagine we all have differing work schedules, so maybe the hours you're out and about are conflicting with others' out and about times. Either way, I don't believe numbers have diminished, probably just circumstances (less money to spend out in town = more time at home).

  12. #12
    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Eastern VA, with too many people
    Posts
    404
    Windy/chilly so jackets cover. Like most, except Mr Nap, people got their CHPs so they don't worry about whether the gun is covered or not. I carry the same gun in same holster whenever I carry...Sometimes I'm tucked, sometimes I'm not. You may see me OC, or maybe not...I'm sure alot of people ar like that right about now..
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    No opinion as to number four.

    Badges: why would anyone want or feel the need for a badge? What's up with that? I know a process server who has a badge that says "process server", but then it's a class-one misdemeanor for anyone to interfere with a process server in Virginia, so that's his way of putting people on actual notice. But a "I carry a gun" badge? I really don't get that at all.

    Itty-bitty guns: I've got some, but they're all 9mm or .38 spc. Agree that the .380, or even a .22LR is "better than nothing", particularly close-up and if the shooter has a good knowledge of human anatomy and physiology, and can shoot accurately. I think a bullet wider than a 9mm or .38 out of a handgun is excess flash, bang, and recoil without any increase in effectiveness, but less firepower than that is too unlikely to hit something vital with sufficient impact. There are people who cannot tolerate the recoil of a .38 and lack the grip strength to operate the slide on a 9mm, so a .22LR S&W model 63 revolver is going to have to do. But it is a sub-optimal choice.

    Retention mechanisms: When I open carry, I generally have a holster with a snap-flap on it. That's because I want early warning if someone's trying to grab the gun, not to actually "retain" the gun. But I also don't think about the need to get the gun out super quick, as if I were Marshall Matt Dillon standing in the middle of the road. First thing in a confrontational situation is to stay alive, not to kill; drop, find cover, or at least concealment, and THEN think about pulling out the gun. Anyone who thinks personal defense is a "High Noon" kind of event is not likely to live long. The premium bonus is for surviving, not for being fastest.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  14. #14
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    But I also don't think about the need to get the gun out super quick, as if I were Marshall Matt Dillon standing in the middle of the road. First thing in a confrontational situation is to stay alive, not to kill; drop, find cover, or at least concealment, and THEN think about pulling out the gun. Anyone who thinks personal defense is a "High Noon" kind of event is not likely to live long. The premium bonus is for surviving, not for being fastest.
    Well put. I have heard a lot of people, mostly CCers (no offence to our friendly CC/OC members) who are just chomping at the bit for someone to try and rob a store they are in so they can go all Wyatt Earp on that SOB.I have to question if a person like that is carrying for the right reasons...
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •