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Thread: Community (SnoCo) Transit policy: Have gun, will meet police

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Community (SnoCo) Transit policy: Have gun, will meet police

    Part of my job is to "inform and explain" company policies, so when I saw this in a training memo the other day I thought it bared mentioning, since it's completely different from the last time I heard about the subject (when drivers had more discretion about how to handle such situations). Notice they imply by omission that open carry is not actually legal, and any "known" firearm will get you contacted by SnoCo deputies. Might they be overstepping here by enabling the harassment of someone who's not breaking any laws, and is in fact exercising a protected right? As a driver I certainly wouldn't want to be a party to that, nor would I want to provoke an obviously armed criminal!



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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Part of my job is to "inform and explain" company policies, so when I saw this in a training memo the other day I thought it bared mentioning, since it's completely different from the last time I heard about the subject (when drivers had more discretion about how to handle such situations). Notice they imply by omission that open carry is not actually legal, and any "known" firearm will get you contacted by SnoCo deputies. Might they be overstepping here by enabling the harassment of someone who's not breaking any laws, and is in fact exercising a protected right? As a driver I certainly wouldn't want to be a party to that, nor would I want to provoke an obviously armed criminal!


    It will only take one law suit and that will change. I would hope that Snoco deputies would know the law if they were going to put in a possession to be sued.

    If I worked for Community Transit I would inform them that this policy will get them a civil rights law suit (section 1983) as OC of an unloaded handgun is legal without a CPL, and loaded OC of a handgun is legal with a CPL.

    I don't give a damn what Community transit's Policy is, I do care what state law says.

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    Last edited by hermannr; 03-23-2013 at 02:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    It will only take one law suit and that will change.
    COMMENT REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Inappropriate
    Last edited by John Pierce; 03-25-2013 at 10:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Part of my job is to "inform and explain" company policies, so when I saw this in a training memo the other day I thought it bared mentioning, since it's completely different from the last time I heard about the subject (when drivers had more discretion about how to handle such situations). Notice they imply by omission that open carry is not actually legal, and any "known" firearm will get you contacted by SnoCo deputies. Might they be overstepping here by enabling the harassment of someone who's not breaking any laws, and is in fact exercising a protected right? As a driver I certainly wouldn't want to be a party to that, nor would I want to provoke an obviously armed criminal!



    And the RAS to justify the LEO non-consensual interaction is ...?
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Community (SnoCo) Transit policy: Have gun, will meet police

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    And the RAS to justify the LEO non-consensual interaction is ...?
    That's what I'd like to know. Is this analogous to a citizen calling police for an MWAG or a govt agent asking police to "inspect" an armed citizen ala Oak Harbor?
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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Part of my job is to "inform and explain" company policies, so when I saw this in a training memo the other day I thought it bared mentioning, since it's completely different from the last time I heard about the subject (when drivers had more discretion about how to handle such situations). Notice they imply by omission that open carry is not actually legal, and any "known" firearm will get you contacted by SnoCo deputies. Might they be overstepping here by enabling the harassment of someone who's not breaking any laws, and is in fact exercising a protected right? As a driver I certainly wouldn't want to be a party to that, nor would I want to provoke an obviously armed criminal!



    Although there is a training opportunity here, and you seem to be the guy to deliver the mail, Item number 1: says no "illegal" firearms.....this is part of the serial "dis-information" that GoGo refers to...

    Technically speaking, I am not sure that there is an issue..... I think that with enough folks riding the bus "legally" OC'g, the bus drivers, SnoCo sherriff's and the bus line's route delay's are going to force the change...or at least clarification.... and a potential suit on the carrier and the LEO's....
    Last edited by jt59; 03-23-2013 at 05:53 PM.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Snohomish county, here I come.

    I guess it may be interesting to test this to see if it is followed. I have a week off, might be 'fun.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Snohomish county, here I come.

    I guess it may be interesting to test this to see if it is followed. I have a week off, might be 'fun.'


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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Sounds to me there needs to be an open carry get together, stop by Starbucks and then head for different buses and take a ride, guaranteed it would be an educational day!

    6 different buses with around 3+ riders armed openly at the same time, how would they handle that?
    Last edited by BigDave; 03-24-2013 at 01:13 AM.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Sounds to me there needs to be an open carry get together, stop by Starbucks and then head for different buses and take a ride, guaranteed it would be an educational day!

    6 different buses with around 3+ riders armed openly at the same time, how would they handle that?
    Everett would be the easiest city to make that work in.

    There is a major hub there.

    Lynnwood would be a close second.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    handguns which are concealed are legal
    How are they going to know about them in order to:
    inform dispatch
    and
    complete an event report
    At least it says to continue on the route unless there's a disturbance.
    Wanna bet they'll include a disturbance by another passenger who's getting her panties in a twist?

    ETA: And yes, it's annoying that yet another gov't agency is lying by not telling the whole truth.
    Sure, concealed pistols are legal. So are unconcealed pistols.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-24-2013 at 01:35 AM.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Everett would be the easiest city to make that work in.

    There is a major hub there.

    Lynnwood would be a close second.
    Note that Everett Transit (red & grey busses in Everett city limits) is a separate entity with their own policies & procedures...

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Snohomish county, here I come.

    I guess it may be interesting to test this to see if it is followed. I have a week off, might be 'fun.'
    If someone does decide to do this *please* drop me a line first so you don't end up on my bus, as I really do not want to be in the position created by this policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Although there is a training opportunity here, and you seem to be the guy to deliver the mail
    I will try to make some inroads where I can, but I'm concerned I'd either make myself a target or (most likely) simply be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Technically speaking, I am not sure that there is an issue..... I think that with enough folks riding the bus "legally" OC'g, the bus drivers, SnoCo sherriff's and the bus line's route delay's are going to force the change...or at least clarification.... and a potential suit on the carrier and the LEO's....
    Trouble is, so few do. Over a decade of driving and I've NEVER seen anyone open carry on a bus (even back in PHX where "everyone" OC's), well except that one time I did a shuttle for 30 fully kitted out SWAT guys with submachine guns & body armor, but anyways...

    Would like to get my ducks in a row before I start rocking the boat here (so I have something to grab at when it tips over ). To me, this seems akin to requiring police contact because someone is wearing an Arabic head scarf or turban, but is it actually crossing the line, legally speaking?
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    How are they going to know about them in order to: inform dispatch
    IIRC there was an incident a few years ago, from a poster on this forum, who had a cased Ruger rifle and was hassled & MWAG'ed by an ignorant driver. That led to the last training bulletin on the subject, which implied that it was the driver's discretion whether to actually call in or not.
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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    If someone does decide to do this *please* drop me a line first so you don't end up on my bus, as I really do not want to be in the position created by this policy.
    So, wouldn't any negative repercussions from a driver following state law instead of the policies of a municipal corporation come under the heading of unlawful discrimination, harassment or wrongful termination of employment?

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Sure, concealed pistols are legal. So are unconcealed pistols.
    Some people believe (incorrectly, obviously) that if there is no law granting permission, it must be illegal. They are somehow wholly unaware that that is completely opposite the way that laws actually work. There aren't any laws saying it's legal to wear underwear or possess a cellphone either, but oddly enough people who freak out over a lack of laws "authorizing" open carry don't freak out over their own underwear...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post

    6 different buses with around 3+ riders armed openly at the same time, how would they handle that?
    Depends on the area. If it was in the White Center or Rainier Beach area of Seattle, the Driver would probably stop the bus and run
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    SNIP

    Some people believe (incorrectly, obviously) that if there is no law granting permission, it must be illegal. They are somehow wholly unaware that that is completely opposite the way that laws actually work. There aren't any laws saying it's legal to wear underwear or possess a cellphone either, but oddly enough people who freak out over a lack of laws "authorizing" open carry don't freak out over their own underwear...
    But guns are scary. Underwear is 'normal' who in their rite {yes I know how I switched spellings} mind would not wear underwear?
    The law says that we cannot expose ourselves.... [/libtard rant]
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Note that Everett Transit (red & grey busses in Everett city limits) is a separate entity with their own policies & procedures...



    If someone does decide to do this *please* drop me a line first so you don't end up on my bus, as I really do not want to be in the position created by this policy.
    Let me know what routes you ride.

    I was talking about Everett because that is a hub there. Many buses come in and out of there. I might want to go to Sultan...
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    I rode community transit 2 months ago open carrying, and nothing happened.

    The 511 from Lynnwood, Ash way park n ride, big hub, to downtown Seattle.

    I have ridden it 3 times total, open carrying and never had a problem.

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Re: Community (SnoCo) Transit policy: Have gun, will meet police

    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    I rode community transit 2 months ago open carrying, and nothing happened.

    The 511 from Lynnwood, Ash way park n ride, big hub, to downtown Seattle.

    I have ridden it 3 times total, open carrying and never had a problem.
    Isn't the 511 sound transit? Different organization from community transit...
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    Isn't the 511 sound transit? Different organization from community transit...

    Correct. Sound Transit is a separate entity, the 510, 511, 513, 512, 535, & 532 are subcontracted for operations to CT, who then again subcontracts them to First Transit, a third private entity. So different policies all around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    Isn't the 511 sound transit? Different organization from community transit...
    You might be right, I'll have to check.

    The cops do have a right to stop you and check your cpl.

    They checked mine when I was at the Stadium Link Station a couple of years ago.

    But they were cool about it.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    The 511/510 are sound transit.

    I've ridden the 510 more than 5 times and have NEVER had a problem.

    The 275 though I was asked for my CPL once.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    I just sent community transit an email with a copy of Metro's Policy and asked them to change to that, because it will be easier on their drivers and transit police.

    I'm waiting for a reply.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    I just sent community transit an email with a copy of Metro's Policy and asked them to change to that, because it will be easier on their drivers and transit police.

    I'm waiting for a reply.
    Change to what?

    We have no legal requirement to display our CPL to anyone but a cop/LEO/police officer.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Anyone want to go on a bus ride with me?
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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