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Thread: Courts, encounters with locking up pistols while visiting.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Courts, encounters with locking up pistols while visiting.

    This is a thread to inform our fellow open carriers about any positive or negative (legal/illegal) interactions with courts while carrying at all.

    In example, you are forced to show ID to store your pistols while visiting a court house, a court house does not have lock boxes, maybe a court house has zero hassle lock boxes.

    Please sticky this for our Washington domiciled individuals.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Okay, I'll kick this one off then.

    Kirkland municipal court did not have a lock box until I make a stink about it. That one cost me some cash...


    Evergreen District court required some education and they fixed their thing up real quickly.

    Snohomish county, superior court building, required a CPL + ID to get my guns locked up while visiting.

    Please share your stories, updates, heads up, etc here in this thread.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Last time I was at Bellingham municipal court (about two years ago) they required I.D and a cpl The Whatcom county court asks for just I.D and they write down your information in a notebook and issue you a key to a lock box.

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    Regular Member 509rifas's Avatar
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    I've had nothing but positive experience.
    When I was on jury duty, the first day I left the gun in my car and then brought it in on my lunch when I had plenty of time left to go through whatever motions there may have been, and told the deputies I was selected and wanted to know about the procedure for when I went in through the no-search area. (they only recently added the metal detectors in Yakima County due to a couple recent incidents.) They told me just come in like the rest of the jurors and turn it in.
    The next day when I came in I approached the deputy at the detectors (I was behind the search area) and told him I was a juror and I needed to check in a weapon. He asked what kind of weapon and I said "a sidearm," he looked at me surprised and said "how did you get it in here?!" I told him the deputy the day before told me to just bring it in like everyone else and turn it in. I asked if it was a problem or if in the coming week I should come in through the public door, he told me to standby, then said it was fine, just turn do what I did.

    I was initially concerned about the "restricted access" part of the RCW, but the signs posted were identical (and I took pictures) to the signs on the front public entrance, and I was told by different deputies that bringing it in through that door was not a problem. Also, during the deliberations, one of the jurors who was the wife of a retired deputy and friends with the county sheriff, she disagreed with my verdict and tried to get me arrested/taken off the jury ( and I know this for sure because I heard her talking about it braggingly about how I was about to be removed), and then when that didn't work she tried bringing that up in deliberations "why would you bring a gun in here!?" and all that nonsense. I did see the Sheriff in there that morning talking to her; i don't know what he said, but I was not contacted by anyone about the gun, and the next day I brought it in with no problems, deliberations proceeded as normal.

    Coincidentally, the county Sheriff is the only republican I have ever voted for in my life, for his views that I agree with, many of which are off topic, but include that he has publicly stated that he will not have his department enforcing any laws that he feels conflict with the Second Amendment (this was in the wake of the most recent push for an "Assault" Weapon Ban) and in my area has encouraged citizens to arm themselves in order to deal with crime around here.

    All in all, my experience with carrying guns at the courthouse was all positive. The deputies were very respectful and polite, did not treat me like a criminal for bearing arms or ask me stupid questions like "why do you carry" (to be fair I've never been asked that by any cop, even in less than positive encounters.) They did ask me for my CPL to keep with my pistol. I had my DL and CPL in separate places, and I asked and they said they only needed the CPL. I didn't do a PRA request so I don't know if they even ran it, but they did ask to keep it. I believe but am not sure that the CPL was just placed in the locker. I know after the first day it was, but I don't know if they ran it the first day. Either way, all went well.


    To answer questions from the original post:
    I was asked for my CPL, they kept my CPL with my weapon until I left. I was concealing. I was told I didn't need to unchamber it, just put it in the locker, so I assume they just locked it up and dealt with the real concerns of their job. Woo YSO!
    Last edited by 509rifas; 03-24-2013 at 05:28 AM. Reason: typo

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha View Post
    Last time I was at Bellingham municipal court (about two years ago) they required I.D and a cpl The Whatcom county court asks for just I.D and they write down your information in a notebook and issue you a key to a lock box.
    They shouldn't be doing that now. They don't even require ID that took me about a year of discussing with the city attorney and going in and saying no to ID. Then all of sudden walla, they moved the lock boxed to a locked hallway, they don't ask for ID and they give you the key. Which now complies with state law.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 509rifas View Post
    I was asked for my CPL, they kept my CPL with my weapon until I left. I was concealing. I was told I didn't need to unchamber it, just put it in the locker, so I assume they just locked it up and dealt with the real concerns of their job. Woo YSO!

    State law does not say they can ask for ID and states if they have lockers you get the key.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I have been in the Bellingham courthouse a half dozen times or more in the last six months. I walk straight in and go directly to the LEOs at the metal detector. I always ask for a key even if I am not going into the "restricted area. I tell them that I have a bit of "first floor business" to do before I go thru the metal detector. No ID request , when I am done , I give the key back. No worries.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I have been in the Bellingham courthouse a half dozen times or more in the last six months. I walk straight in and go directly to the LEOs at the metal detector. I always ask for a key even if I am not going into the "restricted area. I tell them that I have a bit of "first floor business" to do before I go thru the metal detector. No ID request , when I am done , I give the key back. No worries.

    Bellingham or Whatcom County, they both are close and in Bellingham.

    I OC on my first floor business. I am proud of the fact that I got them to rearrange the ropes so you don't have to go through security for first floor business since all the courts are on the upper floors.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha View Post
    Last time I was at Bellingham municipal court (about two years ago) they required I.D and a cpl
    I wonder, if you walked into there open carrying sterile and wanted to check a firearm, would they arrest you for unlawful possession of a firearm?

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Bellingham or Whatcom County, they both are close and in Bellingham.

    I OC on my first floor business. I am proud of the fact that I got them to rearrange the ropes so you don't have to go through security for first floor business since all the courts are on the upper floors.
    Clallam County building is the same way...it's a little confusing from the street with the signage that says "no weapons in restricted areas" out side the entrance, but the court area's are upstairs....the inside signage prohibits you in the stairways going upstairs and (I think) the elevator.

    They have lockers down a little hallway to the right as you head toward the Sheriff's office, put in your sidearm and take the key...you don't need to talk to anyone at all. Jefferson is the same way.

    Here is my post on Tacoma, just to get it in this thread..


    I had business there, and decided to go early and "go" through the process for checking my sidearm....I intentionally did not argue, debate the law, or in any other way make a fuss with officer Friendly.

    I stood in the lower level entry and got the attention of security and said I needed to check a firearm....the security guy was friendly, and gave me directions to go to the second floor, back entrance (I knew this, but wanted to see how they handled the question).

    I then proceeded to the 2nd story back entrance and after entering, got the attention of another security guard and said "I need to check a firearm"... he was mildly confused by my request, but recovered and contacted Pierce County Sherriff's dept. for assistance.

    I had to exit and come back in, and just on the right of the right of the entry, was a door. The officer, came up and directed me into the room. The room had two types of lock boxes, some with key's like the airport, others were older style, but did not have individual keys. The officer had them on his ring....

    I decided, also to do this concealed carry, to see what kind of response or inquiry for my documents he may make...

    He was very professional, opened the locker, I took my (loaded, locked and cocked 1911) out of my holster, verified the safety on and placed in the locker. He suggested that I also put it in the holster, as it was likely the security folks wouldn't quite now what to do with the empty holster along with my belt and other stuff when I went through security. I took my belt off and stripped the holster, reached into the locker and withdrew my pistol and stuck in the holster and put the whole works back in the locker (I also positioned it so I could tell if it was moved)...

    He had me fill out a short form, locked the door and handed me a plastized "locker #6" retreival card and that was it. Didn't ask for my ID, CPL and let me handle the firearm loaded, twice...no worries.

    I pressed him for the key, but he said you get the card, not a key...I let it pass and went about my business...couple hours later, ready to leave, reversed the steps, he attended me while he opened the locker, I took the gun out, still in the holster, rebelted it, shook hands....thank you very much ...have a nice weekend, sir, says officer Friendly and I'm on my way....

    Except for the key thing, Really no tribble at all, the retrieval card was not an issue....and I am confident the gun stayed in the locker while I was conducting my business...

    So, there it is...
    Last edited by jt59; 03-24-2013 at 06:38 PM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    I wonder, if you walked into there open carrying sterile and wanted to check a firearm, would they arrest you for unlawful possession of a firearm?
    Why would they do that? It isn't unlawful.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Just went to visit a friend who is currently on "Vacation" in the Chelan County jail and was told the weapon lock boxes are for LE only

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad98801
    Just went to visit a friend who is currently on "Vacation" in the Chelan County jail and was told the weapon lock boxes are for LE only
    Well if the jail is accessible through the courthouse you should enter through there and the law requires that they keep a lockbox.

    and if the jail is detached and you have a CPL then these are the applicable laws

    RCW 9.41.300
    Weapons prohibited in certain places Local laws and ordinances Exceptions Penalty.

    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

    (a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;

    ..............................................
    (8) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises or checks his or her firearm. The person may reclaim the firearms upon leaving but must immediately and directly depart from the place or facility.
    ............................
    I would look into that. It seems they may not be in compliance with the law.
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    The jail is in the same building as the courthouse ill talk to a supervisor or someone higher up about it next time I go in

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad98801 View Post
    The jail is in the same building as the courthouse ill talk to a supervisor or someone higher up about it next time I go in


    Just got this email from whom I assume is a Sgt at the Chelan County Jail.

    "There are no weapons allowed inside the jail. Therefore there are no public weapon lockers in the jail, so if you are planning to visit an inmate please do not bring your weapon(s) with you.



    Sgt. McCallister"

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    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad98801 View Post
    Just got this email from whom I assume is a Sgt at the Chelan County Jail.

    "There are no weapons allowed inside the jail. Therefore there are no public weapon lockers in the jail, so if you are planning to visit an inmate please do not bring your weapon(s) with you.



    Sgt. McCallister"

    Sounds like you have some work ahead of you. EMN posted the reason why they should have a locker or designated official to keep your side-arm. Here at Geiger Correctional they have public lockers for whatever you want to store that is not allowed in the visitors area....

    Also a point you can bring up to the Sgt is there are no weapons allowed in areas of the court either, but they provide storage per state law....

    -Thor
    Last edited by Thor80; 03-26-2013 at 09:35 PM.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad98801 View Post
    Just got this email from whom I assume is a Sgt at the Chelan County Jail.

    "There are no weapons allowed inside the jail. Therefore there are no public weapon lockers in the jail, so if you are planning to visit an inmate please do not bring your weapon(s) with you.



    Sgt. McCallister"
    But do you access the jail by entering the court house? if so they must check your weapon as if you are going to watch a trial. in that case just check your gun. if they won't check it then I would go for a Writ of Mandamus against the county ordering them to recognize state law. if the jail is accessed through a different entrance, then this is what you can do

    passive: You go to the courthouse, check your gun, slip out and do your business at the jail. then come back to the court house and retrieve your pistol.

    Aggressive: Go to the jail entrance, with an audio recorder, and tell the security person "In accordance with RCW 9.41.0300 (8) I would like to proceed immediately to the administrator of this facility to check my lawful firearm for safekeeping while I do business at this jail"

    the one thing that I would ask a lawyer about, since the statute i just referenced says
    (8) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises or checks his or her firearm. The person may reclaim the firearms upon leaving but must immediately and directly depart from the place or facility.
    does that establish a duty on the part of the administrator to check your firearm? I think so, but hopefully the Mighty Rapgood can read this thread and provide his thoughts on the matter
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Why would they do that? It isn't unlawful.
    Since when did that stop a bad (whether due to corruption or ignorance) cop from making an arrest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    But do you access the jail by entering the court house? if so they must check your weapon as if you are going to watch a trial. in that case just check your gun. if they won't check it then I would go for a Writ of Mandamus against the county ordering them to recognize state law. if the jail is accessed through a different entrance, then this is what you can do

    passive: You go to the courthouse, check your gun, slip out and do your business at the jail. then come back to the court house and retrieve your pistol.

    Aggressive: Go to the jail entrance, with an audio recorder, and tell the security person "In accordance with RCW 9.41.0300 (8) I would like to proceed immediately to the administrator of this facility to check my lawful firearm for safekeeping while I do business at this jail"

    the one thing that I would ask a lawyer about, since the statute i just referenced says

    does that establish a duty on the part of the administrator to check your firearm? I think so, but hopefully the Mighty Rapgood can read this thread and provide his thoughts on the matter
    To sound more clearer the jail sheriffs office and courthouse is all in the same building just on different floors sheriffs office is in the basement jail is on the main floor and the actual courtrooms where the security check point is is up on the 5th floor im not too sure if the jail staff is the same as the security that's by the court rooms I have another visit to go see my friend in the jail on Monday so after I get done with that ill do some more poking around and see what I can come up with

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    Regular Member Munkey Butt's Avatar
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    Lewis County Courthouse

    Went to the Lewis County Courthouse with the Fiance to get paperwork for her concealed. Sheriffs Office is on the first floor just past the metal detectors.

    Went in and got the attention of the security guard, told him I'd like to secure my sidearm. He walked into his little windowed office and on the table in there was a small 6 drawer Rolodex type deal in which were tags with keys. He asked for a DL and for me to slide it under the glass, he then slid the key to me and pointed to a set of lock boxes and said, "Number One". Unholstered from my serpa slid my sidearm into the box and locked up. Continued with the normal security screening then walked to the SO window. Took care of business, leaving was a breeze. No issues, the security guard was friendly and handled everything professional.

    PJ
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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    While at the kitsap county courthouse the other day I asked if they had lock boxes for firearms. And the guy insisted on ID and then I placed the pistol along with my extra mag in the box he locked it I held my hand out for the key. He said they keep the key because if I lost it they would have to replace the locker. I reminded him of the state law and he told me If I didn't like the rules don't carry A gun.
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    Clay, I think my reply would have been, I do like the rules,for example RCW 9.41.300. If I have to play by the rules, you do as well.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munkey Butt View Post
    Went to the Lewis County Courthouse with the Fiance to get paperwork for her concealed. Sheriffs Office is on the first floor just past the metal detectors.

    Went in and got the attention of the security guard, told him I'd like to secure my sidearm. He walked into his little windowed office and on the table in there was a small 6 drawer Rolodex type deal in which were tags with keys. He asked for a DL and for me to slide it under the glass, he then slid the key to me and pointed to a set of lock boxes and said, "Number One". Unholstered from my serpa slid my sidearm into the box and locked up. Continued with the normal security screening then walked to the SO window. Took care of business, leaving was a breeze. No issues, the security guard was friendly and handled everything professional.

    PJ
    Why did you give them an ID card?

    There is no requirement for the demand of it.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  24. #24
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911er View Post
    I reminded him of the state law and he told me If I didn't like the rules don't carry A gun.
    If he doesn't like the rules, he should find another line of work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    State law does not say they can ask for ID and states if they have lockers you get the key.
    Do you have the RCW's for these? Snohomish Co. Court (Everett) requires ID and keeps the key to their new "lockers"

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