Open carry story/discussion in Reston Patch

I've been active on this story's comments. Most of the anti- comments are about "comfort" or are mistaken. Some of the pro- comments are mistaken.

Take a look. It started out interesting and degenerated -- though not to the point of many other discussions.

Lots of disinformation there in the comments section. Lots of angst and anger, too. And a few, one in particular, like to resort to that left-loving cry of racism in all its forms and verbiage. Hard to have an intelligent dialogue with that sort of behavior.

Now my lady, you did yourself and us proud as far as I could see. Good job!

To explain what it's about, for those who don't like clicking on blind links...
A gal was at a coffee shop with friends, having a knitting circle.
A guy tried to buy one of them coffee, she refused, he followed her to the group (standing closer than was socially acceptable for a stranger), they talked, they noticed he was OCing a pistol, he said he was going to the range, he eventually left.

The comments are predictable, from sense to nonsense.

I'm sorry, but I quit reading comments after maybe the third time someone whinged about their "right" to not feel uncomfortable. No, I did not pay attention to names - I usually do not unless some real good back and forth develops.

As mentioned, the amount of ignorance and presumption about what the law might be was astounding - even for as short a dip into the cesspool as I took.

But moving along -

OC guy offers at the register to buy (pay for?) coffee of knitting circle lady. Follows her to knitting circle conclave after getting turned down at the register. NOBODY seems to have any problem with either of those two behaviors. I'm even going to throw yellow flags at Tess [strike]and MKEgal[/strike].

stay safe.

MKEgal said:

To explain what it's about, for those who don't like clicking on blind links...
A gal was at a coffee shop with friends, having a knitting circle.
A guy tried to buy one of them coffee, she refused, he followed her to the group (standing closer than was socially acceptable for a stranger), they talked, they noticed he was OCing a pistol, he said he was going to the range, he eventually left.

The comments are predictable, from sense to nonsense.

Click to expand...

The guy's behavior definitely was questionable and not something I would want a stranger to do with me or mine. He doesn't do a good job at all of representing those of us who wish to carry, open or concealed. The comments, on the other hand, were like you said.... predictable in that regardless of how this went down, you are going to get comments like this. There will be supporters, middle of the roaders, and those strongly opposed to the public carrying of arms. The guy could have just as easily been waiting in line for service and one of the ladies, seeing his sidearm, decided she felt very uncomfortable in his presence without him saying a word.

There are a few out there who are just not going to want to be around people carrying arms. When I encounter this, I generally ask how they feel about being around a group of police officers. This sometimes catches them off guard while they think of an answer that demonstrates to myself and others within earshot that they are lucid and rational people.

Tess did a darned good job in the mix of responders where some were clearly itching to make it go all emotional. I learned a long time ago that emotional responses in debates are the tools of losers of the subject matter. Some try to cloak their answers in text which they believe makes them appear astute, learned, and even authoritative but it doesn't take long to weed them out and make them fall over their own feet. I'm glad Tess corrected misinformation where it surfaced because otherwise, many would take what they read as gospel.

One thing which struck me from this story was people thinking that they were totally safe because they were in Reston. I used to live in a somewhat expensive area and heard some of the same fantasy about safety from its residents. I worked at a restaurant in this area which closed its carryout at 10 PM but stayed open until midnight for delivery. One of the customers asked why we did this and I told him for safety reasons. He responded in shock, and basically said there was no crime there as it was such a nice area. I walked him outside and started pointing out 3 businesses which had been robbed during the previous year; some of them multiple times.

I do however think that OCers need to be aware of the fact that their gun might be misinterpreted in certain situations. For instance today I was getting ready to use an ATM which was walk up only when 2 women pulled up quickly and used 1 of the 2 available ATMs. I could have gotten out and used the second one but I didn’t want to risk even the remote possibility that she might get nervous as I was armed and we were off in the corner of a parking lot. I actually might have done the same thing even if not open carrying. Its just like the common courtesy most people show that they will stand 10 feet back from you while you are using an ATM so that their actions aren’t misinterpreted; OCers need to do this even more so.

Mongoose72 said:

One thing which struck me from this story was people thinking that they were totally safe because they were in Reston. I used to live in a somewhat expensive area and heard some of the same fantasy about safety from its residents. I worked at a restaurant in this area which closed its carryout at 10 PM but stayed open until midnight for delivery. One of the customers asked why we did this and I told him for safety reasons. He responded in shock, and basically said there was no crime there as it was such a nice area. I walked him outside and started pointing out 3 businesses which had been robbed during the previous year; some of them multiple times.

I do however think that OCers need to be aware of the fact that their gun might be misinterpreted in certain situations. For instance today I was getting ready to use an ATM which was walk up only when 2 women pulled up quickly and used 1 of the 2 available ATMs. I could have gotten out and used the second one but I didn’t want to risk even the remote possibility that she might get nervous as I was armed and we were off in the corner of a parking lot. I actually might have done the same thing even if not open carrying. Its just like the common courtesy most people show that they will stand 10 feet back from you while you are using an ATM so that their actions aren’t misinterpreted; OCers need to do this even more so.

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It's a dirty little secret that Reston has a relatively high crime rate with assaults and even murder up there. And you are right. Just because a specific area is affluent does not guarantee it is safe. In fact, affluence attracts criminal behavior.

It amazes me how many people have no idea what goes on around them, and when I start pointing out all the crime they ask where I get my info from... I guess they just use the internet for farmville and the news paper (beacon publishes thefts per week in the Sunday paper in VA beach) for the ads. I even had a manager of an apt complex say that the police hadn't been called out there in over a year and when I disagreed she wanted to know "where I had heard such a thing?" because it had to be untrue. Didn't know what to say when I answered that police incident records were public record and you could look them up on VA Beach city website.

Nice little peek outside the OC community, thanks Tess! It was not long ago that I was ignorant of VA laws about OC. But my interest in 2A was building. I got a CHP only to exercise my right and when I looked into CC laws I discovered OC and this site. I now feel so much more empowered with much more political hope. We are truly blessed to have so many Conservative Governors but we could use more. Think of the boat we would be in if there weren't so many...

How does the public learn about the laws? Schools don't so where? By default, US!

One observation that I see a lot is this notion that the government passes laws to allow us to do this or that. Same with the Federal government where many believe that they give us our rights.

We live in a dangerous world...

It's unfortunate that the pro gun community, mostly on the anti open carry side, legitimize this nonsense by suggesting that we must hide our guns from public view in order not to scare anyone. Even some of us on the pro open carry side legitimize this nonsense to a degree by caring what polls say "most Americans want".

My angle is that if someone is paranoid of guns and they feel scared of me as a result then that is their problem. They are not going to do to guns what they did to tobacco on my watch. That is shame gun owners into feeling they are diseased so that they hide their guns from public view so that nobody is offended.

This hiding of our guns in order not to scare the paranoid is not helpful.

Tess said:

I've been active on this story's comments. Most of the anti- comments are about "comfort" or are mistaken. Some of the pro- comments are mistaken.

Take a look. It started out interesting and degenerated -- though not to the point of many other discussions.

Click to expand...

Good job, Tess. Some of those people live in a vacuum.

Maybe you should host an OC session of your own at this coffee shop. If you don't knit, how about scrabble, or maybe work a jigsaw puzzle.

It would be especially significant if all the participants were women. After all, who knows when one of those "knitting nannies" will go off the deep end?

Keep up the good work.

richarcm said:

It's unfortunate that the pro gun community, mostly on the anti open carry side, legitimize this nonsense by suggesting that we must hide our guns from public view in order not to scare anyone. Even some of us on the pro open carry side legitimize this nonsense to a degree by caring what polls say "most Americans want".

My angle is that if someone is paranoid of guns and they feel scared of me as a result then that is their problem. They are not going to do to guns what they did to tobacco on my watch. That is shame gun owners into feeling they are diseased so that they hide their guns from public view so that nobody is offended.

This hiding of our guns in order not to scare the paranoid is not helpful.

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There is certain behavior which should be just common sense or common courtesy. For instance you have the right to order a pizza at 1AM and stand outside your house in an overcoat until the driver gets there. Common sense and common courtesy dictate that you shouldn’t; as it puts both you and the driver in a bad situation where your actions can be misunderstood. Nevertheless I used to deal with such idiots several times a week. Usually they were people who had spent their whole lives in the inner city and didn’t realize that hanging out in front of your house at 1 AM wearing a puffy jacket with your hands in your pockets isn’t normal suburban behavior.

As an open carrier you have the “right” to open carry almost anywhere that you want. But again if you choose to stand in front of your house at 1AM open carrying waiting for the pizza guy then there is a strong chance that your intentions might be misinterpreted and accidents and tragedies do happen. Personally I open carry to make myself more safe not less safe. In the example I cited in my original posting I noted that not getting out of your car until the previous customer is done is a courtesy which most people now follow who aren't armed; we should be at least as courteous as the unarmed public is.

Mongoose72 said:

There is certain behavior which should be just common sense or common courtesy. For instance you have the right to order a pizza at 1AM and stand outside your house in an overcoat until the driver gets there. Common sense and common courtesy dictate that you shouldn’t; as it puts both you and the driver in a bad situation where your actions can be misunderstood. Nevertheless I used to deal with such idiots several times a week. Usually they were people who had spent their whole lives in the inner city and didn’t realize that hanging out in front of your house at 1 AM wearing a puffy jacket with your hands in your pockets isn’t normal suburban behavior.

As an open carrier you have the “right” to open carry almost anywhere that you want. But again if you choose to stand in front of your house at 1AM open carrying waiting for the pizza guy then there is a strong chance that your intentions might be misinterpreted and accidents and tragedies do happen. Personally I open carry to make myself more safe not less safe. In the example I cited in my original posting I noted that not getting out of your car until the previous customer is done is a courtesy which most people now follow who aren't armed; we should be at least as courteous as the unarmed public is.

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I agree but I am referring to open carry in general. Many in the pro gun movement add momentum to this silliness by feeding the suggestion that gun owners should hide their guns. This only advances the myth that only bad guys carry guns. And it reinforces the intentions of the gun grabbers which is that your rights are dependent on what other people think or feel. There is an must be discretion. I'm not going to openly carry a gun while wearing camo and a rebel flag. Not that I find camo or rebel flags bad. Some people are scared of both and by this nonsensical definition means that one should never wear or display them. But open carrying in and of itself...if it scares someone. Oh well. That is not my problem. That is their problem.

Discretion yes. Sure. Never ending retreat into a dark corner because someone is "scared"....no.

richarcm said:

I agree but I am referring to open carry in general. Many in the pro gun movement add momentum to this silliness by feeding the suggestion that gun owners should hide their guns. This only advances the myth that only bad guys carry guns. And it reinforces the intentions of the gun grabbers which is that your rights are dependent on what other people think or feel. There is an must be discretion. I'm not going to openly carry a gun while wearing camo and a rebel flag. Not that I find camo or rebel flags bad. Some people are scared of both and by this nonsensical definition means that one should never wear or display them. But open carrying in and of itself...if it scares someone. Oh well. That is not my problem. That is their problem.

Discretion yes. Sure. Never ending retreat into a dark corner because someone is "scared"....no.

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If you live somewhere where 1 in 10 people open carry like some rural areas out west then you don’t have to use much discretion. If it is just 1 in 1,000 then your discretion needs to be a bit more. Yes I hope that as normal people see us open carrying that they will get the idea to do the same then seeing a man with a gun will be just like seeing a man with an I-Phone. And if 1 in 10 were to open carry I am positive that there would be a dramatic reduction in crime.

Mongoose72 said:

If you live somewhere where 1 in 10 people open carry like some rural areas out west then you don’t have to use much discretion. If it is just 1 in 1,000 then your discretion needs to be a bit more. Yes I hope that as normal people see us open carrying that they will get the idea to do the same then seeing a man with a gun will be just like seeing a man with an I-Phone. And if 1 in 10 were to open carry I am positive that there would be a dramatic reduction in crime.

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I live in downtown Richmond and I open carry every single place that I go. Do some people not like that I do so? Probably. Just like some don't like my DTOM plates on my car. But so what?

Nobody says anything to me. If they are scared then that's something they need to deal with just like if I'm scared of burkas or other races

SouthernBoy said:

In fact, affluence attracts criminal behavior.

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ding ding ding! my friends always ask me if i feel safe leaving the doors off my jeep in my neighborhood(not the nicest part of fairfax city) and i just laugh at em and say "you dont go to the ghetto to rob somebody, you go to the nice part of town and rob those people". i also remind them my neighbors see my taking the guns in and oout of the jeep 2-3 times a week so they know better then to mess with my house.

Crime can also be motivated by ease of opportunity. It has been said that locks keep honest people honest.

Honest people are honest for a reason, they are honest. I doubt that the presence or absence of locks has anything to do with honest people staying honest.

Well done Tess. As on this forum, your comments on this story were well thought out, accurate, articulate, and for many of the other misinformed posters, educational. OCDO should be proud of you. Thanks

Some serous idiots in the comments.. I posted a few replies... but the derp is strong over there.