Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 102

Thread: Texas troopers who cavity searched women to face charges

  1. #1
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763

    Texas troopers who cavity searched women to face charges

    http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/03/22/t...-of-two-women/

    CBS-11 has learned two state troopers involved in a controversial roadside cavity search of two North Texas women have been indicted on criminal charges by a Dallas County Grand Jury.
    CBS-11 has learned that one of the troopers, Kelley Helleson, who left the courthouse after testifying Friday, is charged with two counts of sexual assault and two counts of official oppression.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 03-24-2013 at 04:40 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    For throwing our a cig from a moving vehicle. Should not even be an infraction -- car manufacturers don't put in ashtrays anymore...out the window it goes

  3. #3
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    I'm glad the officers are charged, & look forward to hearing that they're doing time.
    As for it being the manufacturer's fault that you have no place to put the remnants of your toke...
    Buy yourself an ashtray. I remember seeing some made on a sandbag, which should sit pretty much anywhere in a car.
    It's not an excuse to litter. Smoke already pollutes. Don't add to it by throwing your trash on the ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    For throwing our a cig from a moving vehicle. Should not even be an infraction -- car manufacturers don't put in ashtrays anymore...out the window it goes
    Not that it has anything to do with the enormous violation of 4th Amendment rights, but tossing a cigarette out the window in Texas is a crime. http://www.blog4safety.com/2011/04/w...toll-on-texas/

    In Texas, the punishment for tossing a lit cigarette is only a littering ticket. However, Texas’ arson law includes felony punishment for anyone whose cigarette recklessly sets fire to a building or injures anyone. Arson is a second-degree felony in Texas, punishable by two to 20 years in prison, but if a person is hurt or killed or if the fire involves a church, arson is a first-degree felony, and the arsonist can face up to life in prison.
    Given the time, place, and prevailing conditions at the time of the incident, being stopped for tossing the cigarette does not bother me. A littering ticket ought to serve as a warning of the danger, given prevailing conditions. (It really does not bother me even if it was in the middle of a hurricane. Tobacco pollutes the groundwater and the soil. In urban areas one can see where driver after driver after driver has dumped cigarette butts along the median at intersections. It's nasty. And that is said as a former smoker who probably was guikty of everything just complained of.)

    two counts of sexual assault and two counts of official oppression.
    My hat is off to whoever placed the charges. I'm still struggling to figure out which offense is the more egregious. For the record, "official oppression" is leading by several lengths.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    I guess I'm a criminal then ..... can I still own a gun Masta?

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    SNIP the enormous violation of 4th Amendment rights,
    You know it will be an enormous violation of rights when the government "cleans it up" by using the words cavity search.

    They should just be called what they really are--vaginal and anal searches. And, called that all the time.

    Its kinda like the word checkpoint--government-speak for roadblock. You automatically know the government is up to something when they change the words ala Orwell.

    With the way things are deteriorating, its only a matter of time before cops start asking consent to search "cavities", and then claim its suspicious when a person refuses consent. No joke. I personally witnessed a cop ask the president of VCDL which pocket he kept his wallet in. This was during role play where cops were demonstrating procedure. The scenario was a report of a guy carrying a concealed gun. The scenario was a consensual encounter. And the freaking cop asked the citizen which pocket he kept his wallet in, fully intending to go in that pocket to see if the citizen had a CHP in his wallet!!!
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-24-2013 at 07:03 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,161

    Sheesh! First squirt-guns and now this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    They should just be called what they really are--vaginal and anal searches. And, called that all the time. !
    The words are paraphilia, sodomy and fisting - and extra-legal icky.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I'm glad the officers are charged, & look forward to hearing that they're doing time.
    As for it being the manufacturer's fault that you have no place to put the remnants of your toke...
    Buy yourself an ashtray. I remember seeing some made on a sandbag, which should sit pretty much anywhere in a car.
    It's not an excuse to litter. Smoke already pollutes. Don't add to it by throwing your trash on the ground.
    Not to mention the risk of brush fires or worse. Anyone who advocates for tossing cigarette butts out the window of a car is a moron for doing so.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Not to mention the risk of brush fires or worse. Anyone who advocates for tossing cigarette butts out the window of a car is a moron for doing so.
    you sound like a liberal .... you should learn more about the subject before opening mouth & putting foot into it


    this thread is getting off subject ....

    but I do agree that the term "cavity search" sounds like a dentist was performing a valuable service .... as opposed to what it really is
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 03-24-2013 at 07:58 PM.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I guess I'm a criminal then ..... can I still own a gun Masta?
    No.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The words are paraphilia, sodomy and fisting - and extra-legal icky.
    Good point. Inasmuch as these searches are often for malum prohibitum discovery related to the War on Some Drugs, I agree they should be treated as criminal.

    I can't imagine the British officer searching Dolly Madison's vagina and rectum for gold or jewels. The mores of the time didn't allow him to even search her luggage over her protest. So, just because police suddenly decide its not over-the-top to search vaginas and rectums, suddenly society has to go along with it.

    Bullsnit.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,005
    Morally, these women could have used lethal force against these molesters. If memory serves, Texas is also one of the few states where they could have done so legally as well.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No.
    bummer ....

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Arent the officers covered by qualified immunity ?
    Per St. John v. McColley (not controlling in Texas, but certainly compelling), immunity can be pierced if the officers knew or should have known that their actions would violate the rights of the victims.

    BTW, St. John was cited by the 4th Circuit in Black, so it looks like it will gain wide acceptance as the law of the land.

  15. #15
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Arent the officers covered by qualified immunity ?
    Not while committing a crime, immunity usually only covers negligence.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  16. #16
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Criminal negligence also?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  17. #17
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Criminal negligence also?
    IMO this is not a case of negligence, it is a clear case of sexual assault for the trooper penetrating the girls, possibly criminal negligence for the other trooper who did not stop it. If he knew before the illegal search that there was going to a sexual assault he should be charged with the same crime as the female trooper.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Per St. John v. McColley (not controlling in Texas, but certainly compelling), immunity can be pierced if the officers knew or should have known that their actions would violate the rights of the victims.

    BTW, St. John was cited by the 4th Circuit in Black, so it looks like it will gain wide acceptance as the law of the land.
    If the facts I read are correct, piecing this should be no problem.

    If the cops personally lose $$$ is another question. It will not be until cops lose the cushion of the governments paying for their mistakes as opposed to them losing financially personally then these issues will never go away.

    If you clunk someone over the head at your employer's ya think your employer would pony up the cash if you lose your civil case? Not a chance.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    The officers in the St. John case had to personally cough up the money. The city could not. Likely the officers had insurance, and it paid. However, the city itself was immune from this action by the ruling of the court.

    Read the case. It is interesting and will inform your opinion.

  20. #20
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    If the facts I read are correct, piecing this should be no problem.

    If the cops personally lose $$$ is another question. It will not be until cops lose the cushion of the governments paying for their mistakes as opposed to them losing financially personally then these issues will never go away.

    If you clunk someone over the head at your employer's ya think your employer would pony up the cash if you lose your civil case? Not a chance.
    Working in a law enforcement role is not the same thing as working private sector, your argument is a logical fallacy.

    and for that matter, yes your private employer can be held liable for your screw-ups in many cases. Why do you think most companies fire employees who bring guns to work?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  21. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Working in a law enforcement role is not the same thing as working private sector, your argument is a logical fallacy.

    and for that matter, yes your private employer can be held liable for your screw-ups in many cases. Why do you think most companies fire employees who bring guns to work?
    See, you think that they are special employees ... special ... when they lose this specialness then instances like this would go to zero.

  22. #22
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    See, you think that they are special employees ... special ... when they lose this specialness then instances like this would go to zero.
    No, incidents like that will never be zero, ever. you're starting the think like an anti-gunner living in fantasy land.

    what it will do is cause deaths and injuries because officers will never contact people or make arrests due to fear they'll be subject to a civil witch hunt for any action they take. if anyone wants to be an officer after that.

    Of course, this may be a boon to people who illegally traffick pistols to Illinios, but not so good for the majority of the public.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  23. #23
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Concord, NC
    Posts
    1,790
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    If the facts I read are correct, piecing this should be no problem.

    If the cops personally lose $$$ is another question. It will not be until cops lose the cushion of the governments paying for their mistakes as opposed to them losing financially personally then these issues will never go away.

    If you clunk someone over the head at your employer's ya think your employer would pony up the cash if you lose your civil case? Not a chance.
    I think that far better than them losing $$$ is that they lose their FREEDOM as befits criminals. But, them losing their $$ is just frosting on the cake...and if the departments have to chip in to make up the difference in what $$ the officers are worth, then HOPEFULLY they will do a better job vetting, training and managing their officers.
    Last edited by carolina guy; 03-25-2013 at 06:04 PM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  24. #24
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    I think that far better than them losing $$$ is that they lose their FREEDOM as befits criminals. But, them losing their $$ is just frosting on the cake...and if the departments have to chip in to make up the difference in what $$ the officers are worth, then HOPEFULLY they will do a better job vetting, training and managing their officers.
    Well these officers are being charged on felonies and one has already been fired.... what more are you asking for? anything that happens to them at this point is at the mercy of the DA, Judge, and Jury. Departments do pay out most of the time their officers screw up. what more do you want in the hiring process? they throroughly analyze someone's background. I got a call from a police department just the other day asking questions about a guy from high school I barely even knew, it was obviously a background investigator. the system is already strict as it is, there comes a point where you have to spend more and more resources for a smaller and smaller benefit, law of diminishing returns.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  25. #25
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Just think how much more Freedom, and Liberty people will have when Texas secedes from the Union.

    The police raped these women; hopefully they will be convicted of rape. Who knows though, in a backward state like Texas.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •