Need to kick room mates out ASAP! Question! (Washington State)

I insinuated no such thing. The risk is that if the stuff is found in your house, you could end up being a prohibited person. Please don't accuse me of stuff. If you think I am implying something, ask.

I'll rat them out to every agency I can. I'll ask the local cops to do a search to find their stash. If it is more than the magic ounce, I want THEM facing charges and being declared prohibited, not me. I would not tolerate criminal activity in my house. If I did, I would be a criminal too. And, regardless of the willingness of the feds to act, it still is a crime, and one in which I'd be an accomplice. No thanks. They get ratted out so that I am not an accomplice.

That'll probably also get them running from the house, no eviction needed! What stoner wants to live with someone who will drop a dime on him?

eye95 said:

I insinuated no such thing. The risk is that if the stuff is found in your house, you could end up being a prohibited person. Please don't accuse me of stuff. If you think I am implying something, ask.

I'll rat them out to every agency I can. I'll ask the local cops to do a search to find their stash. If it is more than the magic ounce, I want THEM facing charges and being declared prohibited, not me. I would not tolerate criminal activity in my house. If I did, I would be a criminal too. And, regardless of the willingness of the feds to act, it still is a crime, and one in which I'd be an accomplice. No thanks. They get ratted out so that I am not an accomplice.

That'll probably also get them running from the house, no eviction needed! What stoner wants to live with someone who will drop a dime on him?

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Hopefully, maybe make a complaint for CYA purposes for yourself, but I wouldn't expect LE to do anything about it unless there's a grow op in the house.....

Maybe they'll run, but possibly not, and now they have incentive to break your stuff while you're not home then deny it.... I'm just saying, I think the OP needs to consult some attorneys before taking any action.... I'd hate for them to have to move and still pay rent due to them taking some premature action that gets a judgement lodged against him.... tenancy laws in this state DO NOT favor landlords.....

Out on the lawn, and if you are concerned about damage or theft of their things, build a secure box. Have the sheriff present if you like, but they are not on the lease and were your guests. They asked for help, you provided help. You now simply want to withdraw further help. If the law doesn't allow this, you live in the wrong place.

If you owned the property, I might think differently, but your lease probably doesn't give you the right to allow them to "live" there, only to visit.

You feel that you are no longer safe and that your property and lives could be in jeopardy if they were allowed to stay even one more day. While you cannot show that they have committed any crime other than weed, you do have reasonably fear. By allowing them to stay one more night, you would be demonstrating a lack of that same fear.

If the court doesn't agree, move to Texas. If they show up, we will just put their corpses in the desert for eternity.

nonameisgood said:

Out on the lawn, and if you are concerned about damage or theft of their things, build a secure box. Have the sheriff present if you like, but they are not on the lease and were your guests. They asked for help, you provided help. You now simply want to withdraw further help. If the law doesn't allow this, you live in the wrong place.

If you owned the property, I might think differently, but your lease probably doesn't give you the right to allow them to "live" there, only to visit.

You feel that you are no longer safe and that your property and lives could be in jeopardy if they were allowed to stay even one more day. While you cannot show that they have committed any crime other than weed, you do have reasonably fear. By allowing them to stay one more night, you would be demonstrating a lack of that same fear.

If the court doesn't agree, move to Texas. If they show up, we will just put their corpses in the desert for eternity.

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Talk about why you shouldn't take legal advice on the internet....

How about an OC BBQ/Pot luck meet-up at your place while they are there?

eye95 said:

I insinuated no such thing. The risk is that if the stuff is found in your house, you could end up being a prohibited person. Please don't accuse me of stuff. If you think I am implying something, ask.

I'll rat them out to every agency I can. I'll ask the local cops to do a search to find their stash. If it is more than the magic ounce, I want THEM facing charges and being declared prohibited, not me. I would not tolerate criminal activity in my house. If I did, I would be a criminal too. And, regardless of the willingness of the feds to act, it still is a crime, and one in which I'd be an accomplice. No thanks. They get ratted out so that I am not an accomplice.

That'll probably also get them running from the house, no eviction needed! What stoner wants to live with someone who will drop a dime on him?

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They would just RICO your house to pay for the investigation.

I wonder how much they payed in legal fees before they won their case? Is calling the DEA reasonable or would evicting them with force be?

http://reason.com/archives/2013/01/28/drug-dealing-and-legal-stealing

Under federal law, property used to “facilitate” a drug crime is subject to forfeiture. In 2000 Congress added a safeguard aimed at preventing just the sort of injustice Caswell faces: An owner can stop a forfeiture if he shows, by “a preponderance of the evidence,” that he did not know about the illegal activity or that, once he discovered it, he “did all that reasonably could be expected under the circumstances to terminate such use of the property.”

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You should have your landlord evict them.

Most leases don't allow guests staying more than X days. The downside is if I'm right you're in violation of your lease and can be evicted too.

sharkey said:

You should have your landlord evict them.

Most leases don't allow guests staying more than X days. The downside is if I'm right you're in violation of your lease and can be evicted too.

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Presuming that the laws are similar to other states in which I have lived and worked, the landlord's claim/action for default of lease terms would be against the lessor - not the visitor/guest/sub-tenant. Having gotten a judgement the L/L would then move for possession of the property = eviction, total. The L/L recovers an empty house.

Grapeshot said:

Presuming that the laws are similar to other states in which I have lived and worked, the landlord's claim/action for default of lease terms would be against the lessor - not the visitor/guest/sub-tenant. Having gotten a judgement the L/L would then move for possession of the property = eviction, total. The L/L recovers an empty house.

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Again because of the complicated circumstances the OP should contact a attorney ASAP to cover his backside.

sharkey said:

You should have your landlord evict them.

Most leases don't allow guests staying more than X days. The downside is if I'm right you're in violation of your lease and can be evicted too.

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Besides a lawyer... This is you're second best avenue. Hoping the landlord will understand the situation and not have any retributions against you. He will also have experience that is free.

Are they receiving mail there?


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Thanks for all of the responses. I'll add more detail.

This whole situation was intended to be a "play it by ear" situation. I told them that they didn't have to pay rent, because I encouraged them to find work, and save up for their own place. After a couple of month, they decided to go ahead and put some utilities in their name, so they could at least help out with that. Well, I let them put Comcast and PSE in their name, and sure enough, they still failed to get a job, so I was stuck paying that bill as well, to avoid any service disconnection. A month of paying their bill, I had switched it back to my name, because they failed to even pay those.

We never had any written or lease agreement. My landlord is a private party, and I had his permission to allow them to stay here as long as I kept him informed, and as long as I didn't charge them rent, considering he didn't want any subleasing, so I'm not in any sort of violation of my own either.

They do have mail here, and they do have utility bills that have come here in their name. I went down to the county court yesterday to inquire about this situation, and came in contact with a few different attorneys. While most of the attorneys were criminal defense attorneys and admitted not to be too familiar with landlord/tenant laws, they all said that from their understanding, if they can show evidence that they have been "staying" there, then they can also show they are residents, and I must take legal action to remove them, if they don't leave on their own. I even contacted the police, and the officer said as much as he'd love to be able to come out and throw them out, there's nothing he can do if they tell them that they live there. Challenging their residency would be a court hearing all on it's own, and would probably take longer than the actual eviction process.

I even inquired about a harassment or protection order. I was told that despite her criminal charges of domestic violence, and current ongoing investigation, that unless she has done something directly to endanger myself or my family, then I don't have any grounds to get such an order -- and if I filed for a restraining order for harassment, and they prove that my reason for filing is to remove them from the property, then I can also be sued.

It seems like this state really favors people like them, unfortunately. I did, however, type up and print out a "termination of tenancy", which is a 20 day notice that their tenancy is expiring, and that they must be out no later than April 15th, or legal action will be taken. They did sign that and consent to it last night.

Take pictures of everything in the house, have your landlord inspect the appartment and write down any serial numbers.

If they decide to kick some holes in the walls this will prove that it was done after the eviction notice. If you need to put a current newspaper in some of the pictures.

Aaron1124 said:

They do have mail here, and they do have utility bills that have come here in their name. .

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Sorry but your story doesnt make sense OR you used some HORRIBLE judgement.

Its impossible to get utilities in your name unless you have the permission of the orginal person. How did they possibly get utilities in THEIR name ?

Ca Patriot said:

Sorry but your story doesnt make sense OR you used some HORRIBLE judgement.

Its impossible to get utilities in your name unless you have the permission of the orginal person. How did they possibly get utilities in THEIR name ?

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Does strech the limits of crediblity doesn't it. Especially considering the utility transfer thing.

Wonder why there has been no reported follow through mentioning an attorney contact.

Consider that the OP has been a registered user in good standing with over two thousand posts; therefore not likely to be spinning a yarn.

Ca Patriot said:

Sorry but your story doesnt make sense OR you used some HORRIBLE judgement.

Its impossible to get utilities in your name unless you have the permission of the orginal person. How did they possibly get utilities in THEIR name ?

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Grapeshot said:

Does strech the limits of crediblity doesn't it. Especially considering the utility transfer thing.

Wonder why there has been no reported follow through mentioning an attorney contact.

Consider that the OP has been a registered user in good standing with over two thousand posts; therefore not likely to be spinning a yarn.

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The OP clearly stated that the OP allowed two utilities to be changed over from being in the OP's name to being in the temporary guests' name because the temporary guests wanted to "help out". The OP then changed those utilities back into the OP's name because the temporary guests had not paid the bills and the OP did not want those utilities cut off.

Really rather linear and easy to follow.

stay safe.

golddigger14s said:

Just want to point out again this OP is in WA state, which just passed a law that anybody over 21 can smoke and possess up to one OZ of weed.

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You are correct, and I apologize for missing that.

HOWEVER - the fact that less than 1 ounce of marijuana for personal consumption is no longer a crininal offense does not mean that exposing a child(ren) to marijuana's second hand smoke or even to the use of marijuana (legally or not) will not be seen by the guardians of "child welfare" as either abusive (usually a misdemeanor) or neglectful (usually a felony) as wellk as grounds to seek either to remove the child(ren) from the home for their protection or al least a court order to terminate tyhe abusive/neglectful behavior and the right to unannounced searches to ensure compliance with the court order.

And even if it turns out that the juvenile courts will agree that because possession and use of less than one counce of marijuana is legal, it therefore is neither abusive nor neglectful to expose a child(ren) to that use, it will be extremely costly to get there. My professional (yes, I used to be a CPS worker and policy wonk) opinion is that since the courts have upheld exposure to tobacco smoke is abusive/neglectful even though use is legal, I do not see marijuana use getting any better reception from the courts in this setting.

stay safe.

Ca Patriot said:

Sorry but your story doesnt make sense OR you used some HORRIBLE judgement.

Its impossible to get utilities in your name unless you have the permission of the orginal person. How did they possibly get utilities in THEIR name ?

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Yes you can. All you need to do is call PSE and ask to transfer service in your name, and provide them with your information. And we did this so I wasn't stuck paying electricity for ALL parties of the house, considering I am the only one with any income. We figured we'd do it out of fairness, so they can help out with electricity while they are here, but even so, I was still the one paying the bill, because they never made payments on it. And things were OK in the beginning. I had given them the benefit of the doubt, and didn't take them to be mooches until they were here for a significant period of time.

skidmark said:

The OP clearly stated that the OP allowed two utilities to be changed over from being in the OP's name to being in the temporary guests' name because the temporary guests wanted to "help out". The OP then changed those utilities back into the OP's name because the temporary guests had not paid the bills and the OP did not want those utilities cut off.

Really rather linear and easy to follow.

stay safe.

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Thank you for understanding. This is exactly the reason. If they were going to stay here for a bit, we agreed it would be fair if they had some responsibility of helping out with at least something.

I just received an email from my wife's dad. He works in an upper managerial position for a well known apartment rental industry. This is what he said:

"Actually the law has changed now, it no longer matters if they receive mail they are not on the lease and don’t pay rent they are considered squatters and can be removed by the police. the law just changed to help landlords with people that are squatting illegally on their properties tell them to get out if they don’t call the cops if they think they can stay because of their rights, tell them to get a lawyer and sue you. I don’t see them having the resources to do so, nor will any lawyer take the case.

Call me if you need to. trust m.e I know the law, its what I do for a living.

I checked with our legal dept today, and they said “tell her they must leave, as the lease holder you can tell them GET OUT. if they don’t call and have them arrested for trespassing, just because they get mail means nothing, you can have mail sent anywhere it doesn’t mean anything, I can have my mail sent to the white house that doesn’t mean I’m the president”

That is a direct quote from her.

Your name is on the lease that is the only thing that matters their names are not on it, and they pay no rent and have no proof that they are entitled to be there, and remain only at your sufferance.

That is all there is to it

Tell them to get out then call the cops and have your lease ready to show them tell them they were hous guests and have been asked to leave and are refusing and you want them arrested for trespass if they refuse to leave.



They have to live there over 10 years to invoke any kind of adverse possession laws and that has been amended as follows

Parties to a lawsuit over adverse possession of real property will have some new provisions to take into account as a result of a law passed by the Washington State Legislature and signed by the governor. Engrossed Substitute House Bill 1026 (“ESHB 1026”) changed the Washington adverse possession statute, RCW 7.28, to allow for a prevailing party to recover attorneys’ fees. It also permits a court to order a successful adverse possessor to reimburse taxes and assessments paid by the title holder during the time that the plaintiff was in possession of the property and for taxes that accrued during the lawsuit. Before the amendments, Washington’s adverse possession statute did not provide for any recovery of attorneys’ fees and made no mention of taxes and assessments. The changes to the law, particularly the allowance for attorneys’ fees, could result in more settlements of adverse possession cases to avoid the potential high costs of trial and risk of loss.

Adverse possession allows a person, after openly occupying someone else’s land for a minimum of 10 years, to bring a lawsuit to gain record ownership of that property. The bill signed into law will allow the winning party to request costs and reasonable attorneys’ fees, which a court would have discretion to award all or a part of as it deems just and equitable. Similarly, the reimbursement of taxes would be left to the court’s discretion. A court also could order the winning party to pay the county any taxes or assessments that were not paid during the time the adverse possession lawsuit was pending.

The new law went through several significant revisions during its travels through the Legislature. An earlier version of the bill that passed out of the state House of Representatives committee would have required that a person who asserted an adverse possession claim pay the attorneys’ fees of the defending party. This “winner-pays” scheme is different from most fee award provisions that typically provide for the prevailing party to recover attorneys’ fees and costs. That particular provision, however, did not make it out of the full House, as floor amendments changed the fee recovery language to a more standard prevailing party provision.

Also, in the original version of the bill was a requirement that a plaintiff prove adverse possession by “clear, cogent and convincing” evidence. That standard would have been much higher than the typical preponderance of evidence burden of proof in civil cases, including many adverse possession cases. Although the full House retained that higher standard of proof in the version of the bill it passed, the state Senate struck the burden of proof language entirely from the final bill.

The changes to the law will not affect current adverse possession cases; it will only apply to adverse possession actions filed on or after July 1, 2012."

Aaron1124 said:

Thank you for understanding. This is exactly the reason. If they were going to stay here for a bit, we agreed it would be fair if they had some responsibility of helping out with at least something.

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Why didnt you just have them pay you with cash or check and then you pay the bill like you normally do ?