Traffic stop

Marco · Mar 26, 2013

Sometimes there's no fun in easy.
Warning Sick Humor Alert:
It's funny to watch folks (idiots) look down the barrel to see if it's loaded.

I tried the carry case but it didn't fit in all my consoles/glove boxes, no longer an issue.
That got me started in a search for something that wouldn't really increase the size of the firearm. I also like the fact that there is a metal version for those times when I have to leave a firearm in my vehicle unattended.
I'm going to have one bolted inside the trunk/cargo area out of sight.

davidmcbeth · Mar 26, 2013

how about a trash bag? hilbilly solution

skidmark · Mar 26, 2013

peter nap said:
Shucks....I just ordered one. It's a lot better system.

Not that I am really worried about some cop running the serial number of my carry gun (one is none, two is one, etc.) but keeping one from playing authoitay games does have much to recommend it.

One for the car and another for elsewhere (LJ-2 because Bigger Guns Save Lives). I like the keyed-alike option and will await finding out if there is a key sent with each as opposed to just one key.

Thanks for getting me to actually think about this.

stay safe.

WalkingWolf · Mar 26, 2013

How about a locking shotgun rack for OC. A)It can be seen easily. B)It is not coming out without a key. Or if it has a solenoid and the switch is hidden well. Shame no one makes one for a handgun, or that I know of.

Citizen · Mar 26, 2013

XDS45 said:
I seem to recall this being discussed but cannot seem to locate the thread. If someone is pulled over for a traffic violation can the officer take your firearm. Whether you tell him or he finds out. I have read where some people say yes and others say no. I am just looking for a point in the right direction as I am willing to do the footwork on the issue. Thank you and any cites are appreciated.

Yes, the cop can temporarily seize the weapon for officer safety.

PA vs Mimms

US vs Baker (4th Circuit which covers VA)

Michigan vs Long

See the case links here:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-Your-4th-and-5th-Amendment-Resources-Here!!&

optiksguy · Mar 27, 2013

SouthernBoy said:
... If they want your firearm object by telling them that you do not consent to them taking your sidearm but will not resist. Repeat this several times (good idea to record this). ...

Any reason for saying more than what is bolded? It seems by adding the "but I will not resist" you are basically inviting them to take it anyway. Now before anyone jumps at me I am not advocating resisting, just wondering why you should say more than the minimum necessary.

skidmark · Mar 27, 2013

optiksguy said:
Any reason for saying more than what is bolded? It seems by adding the "but I will not resist" you are basically inviting them to take it anyway. Now before anyone jumps at me I am not advocating resisting, just wondering why you should say more than the minimum necessary.

Pretty much because a simple "I do not consent" will be responded to as a refusal to comply with the nice ossifer's instructions, and may be the "excuse" needed to apply a little something to persuade you to comply.

SAupposedly the "but I will not resist" signals that you are not going to impede the officer in any way when he goes to remove your hamdgun.

stay safe.

davidmcbeth · Mar 27, 2013

skidmark said:
Pretty much because a simple "I do not consent" will be responded to as a refusal to comply with the nice ossifer's instructions, and may be the "excuse" needed to apply a little something to persuade you to comply.

SAupposedly the "but I will not resist" signals that you are not going to impede the officer in any way when he goes to remove your hamdgun.

stay safe.

So "you and what army?" is NOT an appropriate response ... got it

wrearick · Mar 27, 2013

As far as handing the weapon over, gives me a thought. I have a bank deposit bag from a prior life that I could place the weapon in, lock it and give it to the nice officer to hold. No chance of running a serial number or even knowing what kind of gun it is.....

HearseGuy · Mar 27, 2013

I'm still curious tho, if you are pulled over and disarmed, when the Leo runs your serial number, and he will, is there a way that that gun can now be tied to you or no?

If it solely checks a stolen weapon database that's one thing, if they can now tag your name to that gun, that's BS.

For instance, I get pulled over and disarmed. Cop runs the SN. 2 months later I sell that firearm. Its used in a crime. Will my friendly local PD come looking for me because of that traffic stop?

scouser · Mar 27, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
So "you and what army?" is NOT an appropriate response ... got it

oh please go ahead and say that, be sure to video when you do as I'd love to see what happens

peter nap · Mar 27, 2013

HearseGuy said:
I'm still curious tho, if you are pulled over and disarmed, when the Leo runs your serial number, and he will, is there a way that that gun can now be tied to you or no?

If it solely checks a stolen weapon database that's one thing, if they can now tag your name to that gun, that's BS.

For instance, I get pulled over and disarmed. Cop runs the SN. 2 months later I sell that firearm. Its used in a crime. Will my friendly local PD come looking for me because of that traffic stop?

Yes it can!
Every department I know of keeps it's own little database. They keep a lot of things in it like firearms ad attitude.
They may mark someone as dangerous so more than one officer will respond any time your name pops up.

One of my favorite examples of abuse is in Hanover. A somewhat timid Deputy shot a drunk driver in his driveway because he was aggressively crawling toward him.
His family came running out including his mother. All were cuffed and made to lie in the driveway while the Deputies that responded searched the house.

They were known to have firearms and they wanted to seize them for officer safety. That information was in their database.

Each officer also keeps his own contact database which they often share between each other.

They aren't supposed to. Virginia has a database statute and it has to be shown as absolutely necessary to maintain one. Unfortunately, that's another of those laws with no teeth. There is no penalty for disregarding it.

scouser · Mar 27, 2013

HearseGuy said:
I'm still curious tho, if you are pulled over and disarmed, when the Leo runs your serial number, and he will, is there a way that that gun can now be tied to you or no?

If it solely checks a stolen weapon database that's one thing, if they can now tag your name to that gun, that's BS.

For instance, I get pulled over and disarmed. Cop runs the SN. 2 months later I sell that firearm. Its used in a crime. Will my friendly local PD come looking for me because of that traffic stop?

Regardless of whether it's legal or not, if you believe that serial number won't be linked to you then you need to wake up to reality. Wouldn't surprise me if they couldn't link it to the person who originally purchased it from a dealer anyway. They go to manufacturer, manufacturer has database of where each serial number went to a dealer, go to dealer, dealer records serial number on sales receipt and keeps copy of receipt stapled to the background check forms for his records. It requires some trawling through databases and paperwork but if the crime is great enough I'm sure they'd put in the effort.

skidmark · Mar 27, 2013

HearseGuy said:
I'm still curious tho, if you are pulled over and disarmed, when the Leo runs your serial number, and he will, is there a way that that gun can now be tied to you or no?

If it solely checks a stolen weapon database that's one thing, if they can now tag your name to that gun, that's BS.

For instance, I get pulled over and disarmed. Cop runs the SN. 2 months later I sell that firearm. Its used in a crime. Will my friendly local PD come looking for me because of that traffic stop?

I disremember the technical term for "field notes" and "incident cards" but those are two ways that LEA collect, collate, and cross-reference information that is not legally allowed to be entered into a database. It's sort of like a large information dump with multiple tags - every contact regarding a firearm is entered on a card, but the card is stored without being mae part of any formal database. Your former gun's serial number might be a tag, or it may be tagged by make/model. Someone then has to sift through and winnow out all the guns that do not have that serial number. Viola!* There is your former gun, your name, and a knock on the door from someone who "just wants to talk with you - no, you are not in trouble (yet)."

Unfortunately, I cannot guarantee all this will happen. Some podunk PDs have very sophisticated systems while some of the biggest cities/counties have almost nothing.

stay safe.

* Yes, I know that is either a musical instrument or a girl's name. Gimme a break - I'm too lazy to go to the alt character that has the tilde.

scouser · Mar 27, 2013

peter nap said:
Yes it can!
Every department I know of keeps it's own little database. They keep a lot of things in it like firearms ad attitude.
They may mark someone as dangerous so more than one officer will respond any time your name pops up.

Each officer also keeps his own contact database which they often share between each other.

They aren't supposed to. Virginia has a database statute and it has to be shown as absolutely necessary to maintain one. Unfortunately, that's another of those laws with no teeth. There is no penalty for disregarding it.

which is why I try to be nice when stopped, especially if I've done nothing wrong.

I've lost count of the number of times Commercial Vehicle Enforcement have pulled me for a check, but the last time the trooper took my licence and the truck's paperwork back to his vehicle and when he returned he said he wanted to perform a level 2 check on the vehicle, which is basically just him walking around, checking the tires and making sure the lights work. Compared to the level 1 it takes a heck of a lot less time, level 1 is when they open the hood and start crawling under the entire vehicle looking for absolutely anything wrong. L2 means about 15 minutes on the side of the road, L1 means about 90 (and that's if they don't find anything).

I'd like to think my previous attitude had been noted and taken into account when this trooper was deciding how long to spend with the vehicle I was driving.

peter nap · Mar 27, 2013

scouser said:
which is why I try to be nice when stopped, especially if I've done nothing wrong.

I've lost count of the number of times Commercial Vehicle Enforcement have pulled me for a check, but the last time the trooper took my licence and the truck's paperwork back to his vehicle and when he returned he said he wanted to perform a level 2 check on the vehicle, which is basically just him walking around, checking the tires and making sure the lights work. Compared to the level 1 it takes a heck of a lot less time, level 1 is when they open the hood and start crawling under the entire vehicle looking for absolutely anything wrong. L2 means about 15 minutes on the side of the road, L1 means about 90 (and that's if they don't find anything).

I'd like to think my previous attitude had been noted and taken into account when this trooper was deciding how long to spend with the vehicle I was driving.

I think I have an F for attitude:uhoh:

Maybe Ed could get a few of them to give me a hug and improve my rating

WalkingWolf · Mar 27, 2013

I am polite within reason, sometimes that means politely keeping my big mouth shut.

user · Mar 28, 2013

SouthernBoy said:
Technically, they are not suppose to do this since the carry of a firearm is not probable cause in and of itself. However, it does happen on occasion. Unless they see your sidearm, they are not going to know you're armed unless you tell them, which is something that is entirely up to you since it is not required to inform an officer that you are armed. If they want your firearm object by telling them that you do not consent to them taking your sidearm but will not resist. Repeat this several times (good idea to record this). If they run the serial number and you know they did this, report this to their superior as well as reporting the fact that they disarmed you. Do not get nasty, obscene, or belligerent. Be respectful but also rather firm in your stance that you do not consent to their actions.

Now for the members on this site who really know about this topic, please correct any of what I just wrote since I am by no means an expert on this. I hope I got it pretty much right.

Yup. Especially the part about how you don't need to say anything in response to questions like, "have you got a weapon in the car?". My response to such things is to repeatedly ask, "Why am I being detained? Am I free to leave?".

Arma1911 · Mar 28, 2013

The LEO will likely respond with a "Yes, you are being detained. I caught you speeding (changing lanes w/o signalling, running a red light, etc.)." WHEN he asks us again, "Do you have any weapons in the car?" how then should we respond?

Marco · Mar 28, 2013

Arma1911 said:
The LEO will likely respond with a "Yes, you are being detained. I caught you speeding (changing lanes w/o signalling, running a red light, etc.)." WHEN he asks us again, "Do you have any weapons in the car?" how then should we respond?

I just hand over my info and sit quietly most of the .. but I never anwser any questions... the ticket is a given...

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