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Thread: The reason Nevada does not recognise the Arizona CCW permit!

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    The reason Nevada does not recognise the Arizona CCW permit!

    In the response to my latest NORA request to DPS regarding the deletion of Arizona from the list of States CCW's recognized by Nevada, This Letter came to my attention.

    From: Home & Land Self Defense <homeandlandselfdefense@yahoo.com>
    Date: February 14,2013,8:47:47 PST
    To: "rroshaknvsca@cox.net" <rroshaknvsca@cox.net>
    Subject: Arizona CCW Reciprocity
    Reply- To: Home & Land Self Defense <homeandlandselfdefense@yahoo.com>

    Hello,
    We are writing you from Home & Land Self Defense in Las Vegas, Nevada. It has come to our
    attention that there are some Nevada residents that are getting Arizona CCW permits to avoid getting
    the Nevada Permit. The reason they are doing this is because there are instructors offering Arizona
    CCW Classes online that you can complete in 20 mins. Arizona is honoring these classes and issuing
    permits. We just were not sure if you are aware of that this is going on. So Nevada Resident are taking
    these online courses for 30 mins and getting Arizona CCW permits. There is no shooting requirement
    with those courses. Since Nevada recognizes the Arizona CCW permits they are using those instead of
    Nevada permits. Now we did call Arizona DPS and they confirmed they are aware of it and have been
    honoring them. They said they have no way to stop it as long as they certificates are signed by an
    NRA Instructors they accept them. Some links to these websites are below.

    http://WWW.onlineazccw.com!
    http://www.azccwonline.com!
    http://www.azccw.com/onlineccwcourse.htm

    Thank You for your time
    Home & Land Self Defense
    (702) 399-9332
    http://homeandlandselfdefense.com
    5495 Donna St
    North Las Vegas, NV 89081
    I contacted the Clark County shooting park, as Home and Land Now calls the Shooting park "HOME" Source:http://www.homeandlandselfdefense.com/home

    The Shooting park has started off in a defensive position, (no pun intended) I posed three records requests to them:


    • Any signed contracts between the shooting complex, and Home and land self defense.


    • The results of any fair value assessment, performed on the land, space or trailer leased by home and land self defense.


    • Any public notices, or other advertising by the shooting complex, announcing training space for lease.

    I received a email response back from Steve Carmichael


    Dear Mr. Stillwell,

    I have been forwarded your information in regards to requesting a copy of the contract between the Clark County Shooting Complex and Home & Land Self Defense, one of the Registered User Groups that utilizes our facility.

    We do not have a contract with them. They fill out a Registered User Group Application, provide us with a certificate of insurance, and copies of their Business license (they have both State and County). The District Attorney's Office has determined that any document for use of a county facility that includes name, addresses and phone numbers is not made available to the public.

    I could send you a copy of our Registered User Group information and application package if you like. This is the packet that is provided to all of our User Groups.

    Please let me know if I can be of any more help. You may also contact me by phone at (702) 455-2005. I am in the office Tuesday - Saturday from 8am-5pm.


    Steve Carmichael
    Program Administrator
    Clark County Shooting Complex

    It is on and popping!

    If anyone knows a moderator, this thread might do well to be shared in the Arizona link as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by a-holes
    Date: February 14,2013,8:47:47 PST
    To: "rroshaknvsca@cox.net" <rroshaknvsca@cox.net>
    Subject: Arizona CCW Reciprocity
    Reply- To: Home & Land Self Defense <homeandlandselfdefense@yahoo.com>

    Hello,
    We are writing you from Home & Land Self Defense in Las Vegas, Nevada. It has come to our
    attention that there are some Nevada residents that are getting Arizona CCW permits to avoid getting
    the Nevada Permit...
    I noticed two things immediately. Look at the date of the letter. Have you ever seen NSCA act that quickly on anything? Someone was put up to it.

    It has been illegal for several years already for a NV resident to conceal using a permit from another state, and the NSCA would know this, as should any organization in this industry.

    There is more going on here.

    THANK YOU for getting to the bottom of this. Let me know what I can do to help.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-27-2013 at 08:38 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    In the response to my latest NORA request to DPS regarding the deletion of Arizona from the list of States CCW's recognized by Nevada, This Letter came to my attention.



    I contacted the Clark County shooting park, as Home and Land Now calls the Shooting park "HOME" Source:http://www.homeandlandselfdefense.com/home

    The Shooting park has started off in a defensive position, (no pun intended) I posed three records requests to them:


    • Any signed contracts between the shooting complex, and Home and land self defense.


    • The results of any fair value assessment, performed on the land, space or trailer leased by home and land self defense.


    • Any public notices, or other advertising by the shooting complex, announcing training space for lease.

    I received a email response back from Steve Carmichael





    It is on and popping!

    If anyone knows a moderator, this thread might do well to be shared in the Arizona link as well?
    Good work Tread.

    Let's see. They have a trailer/business office parked on our property (Clark County) and they pay no rent for this space that they run their business out of? Do I have that right? Maybe I should move my business out there and get free rent. What a deal!

    Wouldn't a registered user group be the same as a contract? Any contract with the county should be public record. Me thinks I smell a rat.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Update, I have a 1:30 Appt. with Steve Carmichael today will see what the outcome of that is.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    ...They have a trailer/business office parked on our property (Clark County) and they pay no rent for this space that they run their business out of? Do I have that right? ...
    I just read it again, and I didn't get that anywhere. Am I missing something?

    EDIT: I just looked at their website and see the trailer classroom, but you can't see where it is located. I Googled their address and they have a large lot property that could easily fit one. Maybe they only use the County facility as their "home range."
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-27-2013 at 04:13 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    And what exactly is "land self defense?"
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I just read it again, and I didn't get that anywhere. Am I missing something?

    EDIT: I just looked at their website and see the trailer classroom, but you can't see where it is located. I Googled their address and they have a large lot property that could easily fit one. Maybe they only use the County facility as their "home range."
    Check out their web site:

    http://homeandlandselfdefense.com/

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    The meeting went well, and the Home and Land website has already been changed from "we are Located at the CCSC" to "We utilize the facility's of the CCSC" I was assured that the Shooting Park had nothing to do with throwing AZ under the bus , Was thanked for open Carrying, and given a tour.

    The Shooting park was under the same impression from the Home and Land website as I was. They already had their comeuppance ready for Home and Land, He explained what he would do, and asked if I thought it would be sufficient. I agreed and am impressed with the speed of the website change.

    I still think they should hear our disapproval for getting AZ permits invalidated in Nevada. If you agree here is their face book page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Home-...ref=ts&fref=ts

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    ...I still think they should hear our disapproval for getting AZ permits invalidated in Nevada. If you agree here is their face book page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Home-...ref=ts&fref=ts
    It's my first real post as a Facebook entity (I made a page that I don't use), so we'll see how long this lasts on their page:
    Are you the guys that wrote to the Nevada Sheriffs' and Chiefs' Assn to tell them that NV residents were carrying on AZ permits without proper training? Didn't you know this was already illegal, and all you've effectively done is prevent AZ residents from carrying here on their permit? Nice going!
    Their Facebook page still says they are "located" at the County shooting park.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-27-2013 at 08:46 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    It's my first real post as a Facebook entity (I made a page that I don't use), so we'll see how long this lasts on their page:

    Their Facebook page still says they are "located" at the County shooting park.
    I posted the letter they wrote the sheriffs and Chiefs, and then this comment:
    this is why your AZ permit is now junk, in NV. Who is unable to protect themselves now! If you guys leave this up and own it, I will not post on every gun friendly site on facebook... Just own it!

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    Re: The reason Nevada does not recognise the Arizona CCW permit!

    You know the worst part of this? Those of us who have AZ CCW permits issued prior to the "no range time/no brick & mortar class time" change are being punished for nothing? You would think NV could have came up with some solution a little fairer? Maybe saying we will not honor the web based permits and leaving it upto us who took the full course to bring our certs. with us? I own property in NV. This will curb my trips and spending in NV. A heavy handed approach for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    You know the worst part of this? Those of us who have AZ CCW permits issued prior to the "no range time/no brick & mortar class time" change are being punished for nothing? You would think NV could have came up with some solution a little fairer? Maybe saying we will not honor the web based permits and leaving it upto us who took the full course to bring our certs. with us? I own property in NV. This will curb my trips and spending in NV. A heavy handed approach for sure.
    Please post on that Facebook page!

    Please write to these guys who compile such examples to present to the Legislators who wrongly gave such veto power to a non-governmental non-profit agency in the first place: http://www.nvfac.org/ContactUs.aspx
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Re: The reason Nevada does not recognise the Arizona CCW permit!

    Will do. Thank you for posting links.
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    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    I posted the letter they wrote the sheriffs and Chiefs, and then this comment:
    I posted as well.

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    I posted the letter on the Nevada Shooters forum as well. This needs to be known to whole carrying community.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    The NV Sheriffs and Chiefs are responsible for setting the standards for acceptence of the out of state permits. They review evey year for whose permits qualify and don't. Usually list comes out in June. In order for acceptence /validation the other permit system/state must be equal or exceed our training requirement for NV.
    AZ decided for whatever reason to lower the training standards of getting their permit. They were accepting the fact that you took a UT as well as the online classes. No range qualification required in either.

    SOMEONE brought it to the attention of the NVSCA, THEY decided to look into it and take action on the NV side as they have done in the past. WHY CAN"T WE CARRY IN FL? Because FL went to a 7 year permit. NV dropped them and because they have to have reciprocity they dropped us. Did all of NV scream and claim to be defensless in FL?
    How about UT? We all asked the question when all of a sudden UT showed up on the permit system for NV when they had no official length of time for class (8hrs NV) and no live fire requirement (at the time qualed on every gun) WHO went screaming about that?
    This is old news and regular business there may be some funny stuff going on with your range down in LV and that company but hell thats old news to us here in Washoe as we had 2 former cops running their company out of the sheriffs trailer for years at Washoe County Shooting Facility and they had access with keys and to the other ranges unlike the rest of the instructors. The public subsidized them for a decade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunrunner1911 View Post
    The NV Sheriffs and Chiefs are responsible for setting the standards for acceptence of the out of state permits. They review evey year for whose permits qualify and don't. Usually list comes out in June. In order for acceptence /validation the other permit system/state must be equal or exceed our training requirement for NV.
    AZ decided for whatever reason to lower the training standards of getting their permit. They were accepting the fact that you took a UT as well as the online classes. No range qualification required in either.

    SOMEONE brought it to the attention of the NVSCA, THEY decided to look into it and take action on the NV side as they have done in the past. WHY CAN"T WE CARRY IN FL? Because FL went to a 7 year permit. NV dropped them and because they have to have reciprocity they dropped us. Did all of NV scream and claim to be defensless in FL?
    How about UT? We all asked the question when all of a sudden UT showed up on the permit system for NV when they had no official length of time for class (8hrs NV) and no live fire requirement (at the time qualed on every gun) WHO went screaming about that?
    This is old news and regular business there may be some funny stuff going on with your range down in LV and that company but hell thats old news to us here in Washoe as we had 2 former cops running their company out of the sheriffs trailer for years at Washoe County Shooting Facility and they had access with keys and to the other ranges unlike the rest of the instructors. The public subsidized them for a decade.
    Reciprocity? What happened to full faith and credit? Do all other states have the same qualifications for a drivers license? DL are not even a defined right under the Constitution. Oh yeh I keep forgeting, POWER AND CONTROL.

    TBG
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunrunner1911 View Post
    The NV Sheriffs and Chiefs are responsible for setting the standards for acceptence of the out of state permits. They review evey year for whose permits qualify and don't. Usually list comes out in June. In order for acceptence /validation the other permit system/state must be equal or exceed our training requirement for NV.
    AZ decided for whatever reason to lower the training standards of getting their permit. They were accepting the fact that you took a UT as well as the online classes. No range qualification required in either.

    SOMEONE brought it to the attention of the NVSCA, THEY decided to look into it and take action on the NV side as they have done in the past. WHY CAN"T WE CARRY IN FL? Because FL went to a 7 year permit. NV dropped them and because they have to have reciprocity they dropped us. Did all of NV scream and claim to be defensless in FL?
    How about UT? We all asked the question when all of a sudden UT showed up on the permit system for NV when they had no official length of time for class (8hrs NV) and no live fire requirement (at the time qualed on every gun) WHO went screaming about that?
    This is old news and regular business there may be some funny stuff going on with your range down in LV and that company but hell thats old news to us here in Washoe as we had 2 former cops running their company out of the sheriffs trailer for years at Washoe County Shooting Facility and they had access with keys and to the other ranges unlike the rest of the instructors. The public subsidized them for a decade.
    You are correct in some ways, but not in others, The law sets the standards for the CCW recognition in Nevada, DPS reviews 49 states every year for significant Changes.DPS then suggests to NVSAC the states they believe fit the law, NVSAC then arbitrarily decide who makes the cut.

    We do need public outrage, we need to be writing DPS and asking them why Florida does not meet our standards, I am going to study NLETS and see if we cannot utilize that as a pry-bar to getting the CCW stuff shook loose. As far as the co0ps using the range for their personal benefit, tolerate it if you want, I wont.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    You are correct in some ways, but not in others, The law sets the standards for the CCW recognition in Nevada, DPS reviews 49 states every year for significant Changes.DPS then suggests to NVSAC the states they believe fit the law, NVSAC then arbitrarily decide who makes the cut.

    We do need public outrage, we need to be writing DPS and asking them why Florida does not meet our standards, I am going to study NLETS and see if we cannot utilize that as a pry-bar to getting the CCW stuff shook loose. As far as the co0ps using the range for their personal benefit, tolerate it if you want, I wont.
    Yes you are right on the finer points The law sets the standards DPS reviews then presents to NVSAC and NVSAC makes changes. I was tryin gt be brief. The fact is NVSAC has way too much power TRUE. Thy hold the key as the Legislature has granted power to them.
    I already explained FL. The standard of a 7 yr permit verses OUR 5 yr was one reason there may be those "finer" details however IIRC that was the reason from NVSAC/DPS.
    No I don't approve of people abusing public property and it was taken care of EVENTUALLY by Washoe Parks who then took most of the "public" comment of the perpetrators and worked it out so it once again favored them. Now the smaller guys can no longer walk up and pay for the number of students at $7ea and use the side of the public range obeying all the commands of the rangemaster for hot and cold sessions which can be hard enough but now have to schedule a side range up front pay $35 ahead with no refund and go through parks which is open 9-5 Mon - Fri. That means small guy cannot afford to schedule out 3 months in advance, cannot schedule a range on Mon for a private class that was booked on Sat. Who would pay $35 to use it when that private class is 1 or 2 people and such a large percentage of your profit anyways? Now our anti gun sheriff here is having deputies patrol the local shooting pits to shut them down because we have a 5000' requirement. Last thing they did was go to a popular shooting area for "dog training" and while there started tossing people out and citing those across the valley who were shooting. He has been finding every house, outhouse, barn and chicken coup in the county to put a 5000' circle around on the firearms map to close down shooting. I live in a valley where it's large parcels and the map now looks like a 15 year old kids face who suffers from horrendous acne.
    Good luck to you in getting things done but what I learned form all this is it's just doesn't matter. I gained nothing and lost the ability to use the range facility as did others. The anger was then directed at the Parks and others who questioned and directed away from those that caused the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    Good work Tread.

    Let's see. They have a trailer/business office parked on our property (Clark County) and they pay no rent for this space that they run their business out of? Do I have that right? Maybe I should move my business out there and get free rent. What a deal!

    Wouldn't a registered user group be the same as a contract? Any contract with the county should be public record. Me thinks I smell a rat.

    TBG
    They don't run their business out of the shooting park. Like many other CCW and firearm instructors, they just use the range for their training. If you read the email, their mailing address is 5495 Donna St in North Las Vegas. A Clark County Assessor record search shows the owner's name as Chad Christensen.

    GENERAL INFORMATION
    PARCEL NO. 124-35-104-002
    OWNER AND MAILING ADDRESS

    CHRISTENSEN CHAD D & VERA L
    5495 DONNA ST
    NO LAS VEGAS NV 89081-2933


    LOCATION ADDRESS CITY/UNINCORPORATED TOWN

    5495 DONNA ST
    UNINCORP. COUNTY
    ASSESSOR DESCRIPTION

    PARCEL MAP FILE 63 PAGE 82
    LOT 1

    SEC 35 TWP 19 RNG 61

    RECORDED DOCUMENT NO.

    * 20040109:00593
    RECORDED DATE

    01/09/2004
    VESTING

    JOINT TENANCY
    Then a business license search for Home & Land Self Defense on the county web site yields the following result.

    Business License Detail Information

    License Number: 2000442.810
    Business: Home & Land SelfDefense Training
    5495 Donna St
    Las Vegas, NV 89081
    Business Telephone: (702) 399-9766
    License Category: Educational Instructor
    Status: Licensed
    Date of License: 02/10/2010
    Out of Business Date:

    Business Owner(s)
    Christensen, Chad
    Christensen, Vera L
    Sanchez, Juan M
    Sanchez, Michelle
    So basically they believe Nevada residents are exploiting a loophole that is costing them business. Of course this action will probably cost them more business in the long run now that their identity has come to light.
    Last edited by jpa; 03-30-2013 at 07:35 PM.

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    Here's the NRS that makes their assertion/claim irrelevant. If someone has a permit from another state and becomes a resident, they have to get a Nevada permit within 60 days of their becoming a resident.

    NRS 202.3688  Circumstances in which holder of permit issued by another state may carry concealed firearm in this State; holder of permit issued by another state subject to same restrictions and requirements as holder of permit issued in this State.
    1.  Except as otherwise provided in subsection 2, a person who possesses a permit to carry a concealed firearm that was issued by a state included in the list prepared pursuant to NRS 202.3689 may carry a concealed firearm in this State in accordance with the requirements set forth in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive.
    2.  A person who possesses a permit to carry a concealed firearm that was issued by a state included in the list prepared pursuant to NRS 202.3689 may not carry a concealed firearm in this State if the person:
    (a) Becomes a resident of this State; and
    (b) Has not been issued a permit from the sheriff of the county in which he or she resides within 60 days after becoming a resident of this State.
    3.  A person who carries a concealed firearm pursuant to this section is subject to the same legal restrictions and requirements imposed upon a person who has been issued a permit by a sheriff in this State.
    (Added to NRS by 2007, 3150)

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Looks like they finally deleted most of the comments (including their BS replies) from their Facebook page. Oddly, they left up my comment asking if they were the impetus for the change (it had received no replies).
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpa View Post
    ...owner's name as Chad Christensen. Yup, as in former Assemblyman. ...
    Any way to verify this?

    A Google search of the Sanchez owners have the first hits as a 36-year-old Hispanic felon and a Filipina lingerie model (and I hate when those pop up on a Google search unexpectedly...)
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Unless he divorced and remarried, I highly doubt it is the former Assemblyman Chad Christiansen. See his biography from the 2009 legislative session: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/7...hristensen.pdf His wife at that time was "Ashley." And, see http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/7...mbly/alist.cfm - although its possible he moved, his address at that time was listed on West Sahara Avenue. So it appears it is a different person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post
    Unless he divorced and remarried, I highly doubt it is the former Assemblyman Chad Christiansen. See his biography from the 2009 legislative session: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/7...hristensen.pdf His wife at that time was "Ashley." And, see http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/7...mbly/alist.cfm - although its possible he moved, his address at that time was listed on West Sahara Avenue. So it appears it is a different person.
    I think you're right. I edited my comments in my post accordingly.

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