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Thread: All progun bills only towards Concealed?

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    All progun bills only towards Concealed?

    I notice alot of pro concealed carry bills in the NC senate and house. However, I don't see anything improving on open carry? Is open carry going the way of the dinosaur? Has anyone questioned why so little is being done to promote more open carry? Seems like alot of the bills are only beneficial to those who conceal.

    Thoughts?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csaunders View Post
    I notice alot of pro concealed carry bills in the NC senate and house. However, I don't see anything improving on open carry? Is open carry going the way of the dinosaur? Has anyone questioned why so little is being done to promote more open carry? Seems like alot of the bills are only beneficial to those who conceal.

    Thoughts?
    Yes, if some people have their way, OC will be tied to a privilege card. The person who claims to write this legislation has proven he is rabidly anti OC.
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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    If you don't understand why a privilege is being given higher priority than a right, you must be a drunk biker trying to impress/scare people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by csaunders View Post
    I notice alot of pro concealed carry bills in the NC senate and house. However, I don't see anything improving on open carry? Is open carry going the way of the dinosaur? Has anyone questioned why so little is being done to promote more open carry? Seems like alot of the bills are only beneficial to those who conceal.

    Thoughts?
    What pro open carry bills would you like to see? Figure it out then find a Senator to sponsor it. It is all GRNC can do to find a Senator that will sponsor a concealed carry bill. Complaining about the abundance of cc bills and the lack of oc bills shows that you are ignorant to how the legislative process works in NC. You need a Senator that will back a bill. You have all kinds of groups competing for those Senators for various causes. They try to pick what they think they can get passed.

    I have Walking Wolf blocked but I am sure he immediately bashed Paul Valone and GRNC. Guess he missed today's alert about SB 410.

    Quote Originally Posted by GRNC

    SB 410: "Enabling Heroes Act of 2013"

    In a bid to join Vermont, Alaska, Arizona and Montana by bringing "constitutional carry" to North Carolina, GRNC has worked with Sen. Jeff Tarte to draft SB 410, the "Enabling Heroes Act of 2013." The bill would remove the current blanket prohibition on carrying concealed weapons, instead making it illegal to carry deadly weapons for illegal purposes. SB 410 would leave the concealed handgun permit system intact, however, for the purpose of carrying firearms in more "sensitive" areas such as educational properties.

    Along with eliminating the requirement to obtain a CHP to carry concealed in the state, SB 410 also provides for CHP permit holders -- not just faculty members or marshals, as other proposals have -- to carry concealed firearms in educational properties, as well as preventing prosecution for inadvertent carry onto an off-campus extracurricular school event.

    GRNC applauds SB 410's sponsors, Sens. Tarte, Andrew Brock (R-Davie, Iredell, Rowan, GRNC ****), Shirley Randleman (R-Stokes, Surry, Wilkes, GRNC ****) and Ron Rabin (R-Harnett, Johnston, Lee, GRNC ****), for boldly stepping up for the rights of all of North Carolina's gun owners. We must all do our part by letting our voices be heard and showing our support for this bill. We urge you to contact the NC Senate Leadership and your State Senator and let them know that you expect their full support in passing SB 410 in short order.
    What how can that be? GRNC working on a bill that would do away with the permission card and welcoming Constitutional carry. That would put CC and OC following the exact same laws. Small baby steps is how you change things in government. Trying to cram it all down their throats at one time is how you end up with nothing. Come on Walking Wolf tell us why you don't like this.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 03-28-2013 at 12:44 AM.
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    Regular Member WTFOVER's Avatar
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    I've said it once and I will say it again. There are 400k people in NC (more now but stats haven't been updated) that have CHP's. there might be 10k at the most that OC. Who do you think the GA is going to write bills towards?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFOVER View Post
    I've said it once and I will say it again. There are 400k people in NC (more now but stats haven't been updated) that have CHP's. there might be 10k at the most that OC. Who do you think the GA is going to write bills towards?
    Who cares how many CHP holders are in NC, numbers have nothing to do with rights, but I don't expect a elitist to understand that. But there are way more gun owners without a permit than there are with one. NOT to mention all the liberals and progressives who are against this insane bullpoopoo that some greedy lobbyists are pushing for their own agenda.

    May I remind the above member that this is not a site dedicated to concealed carry but open carry and his remarks are offensive to the membership.

    BTW cough up the cite to back your hairball there are only 10k OC at the most?
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 03-28-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post

    I have Walking Wolf blocked but I am sure he immediately bashed Paul Valone and GRNC. Guess he missed today's alert about SB 410.


    Another reason the above member is not credible. Clearly admits to not reading a post, then makes a accusation that he has no knowledge of whether it actually exists or not. Just more of his personal attacks of members that do not bow to his agenda.

    Also constitutional carry is not constitutional carry if those without a permission card are barred from entering specific businesses or parks. In the long run the bill is a smoke bomb to conceal laws prohibiting carry without a permit, in the form of restrictions.

    The answer is simple, just remove the restrictions, like many others I have no concern over concealed carry and do not believe it is what was meant by 2A, or even the NC Constitution. There should be no restrictions to OC other than private property rights.

    Open Carry is the Constitutional, Sane, Honest, Safest way to carry.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 03-28-2013 at 11:02 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member WTFOVER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Who cares how many CHP holders are in NC, numbers have nothing to do with rights, but I don't expect a elitist to understand that. But there are way more gun owners without a permit than there are with one. NOT to mention all the liberals and progressives who are against this insane bullpoopoo that some greedy lobbyists are pushing for their own agenda.
    Numbers has nothing to do with rights? How do you think things get passed? With numbers. If a person is approached to start a bill or support a bill by two different people. One with small numbers and one with large numbers who do you think they are going to appeal to? The largest group. Come on even a 5th grader knows that.

    May I remind the above member that this is not a site dedicated to concealed carry but open carry and his remarks are offensive to the membership.
    Offensive to whom? Didn't bother me? I can only guess it means it bothers you

    BTW cough up the cite to back your hairball there are only 10k OC at the most?
    Answer

    Open Carry is the Constitutional, Sane, Honest, Safest way to carry.
    Really? Nothing I've found via the internet or from talking to people see it that way. In fact when you search Google the 2nd link that pops up is a news article about a guy being robbed while open carrying a firearm. How did they know he had a firearm? Hmmmmmm
    Last edited by WTFOVER; 03-28-2013 at 12:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFOVER View Post
    Numbers has nothing to do with rights? How do you think things get passed? With numbers. If a person is approached to start a bill or support a bill by two different people. One with small numbers and one with large numbers who do you think they are going to appeal to? The largest group. Come on even a 5th grader knows that.



    Offensive to whom? Didn't bother me? I can only guess it means it bothers you



    Answer



    Really? Nothing I've found via the internet or from talking to people see it that way. In fact when you search Google the 2nd link that pops up is a news article about a guy being robbed while open carrying a firearm. How did they know he had a firearm? Hmmmmmm
    If I remember correctly it has been mentioned that that incident was phony. Besides the recent incidents of CC permit holders being arrested, one just recently firing wildly in the air. Incident after incident seems to keep happening with these card carrying buffoons. Then there is the permit holder that went nuts at a McDonalds, maybe it is time for required mental health examination for permission cards.

    Funny with your supposed numbers(miniscule) GRNC has problems getting its bills passed? And when they are passed it is the right that is infringed upon such as the state park legislation. I find incredibly ignorant, and funny that concealed carry pushers come to a OC site to beg for support and money and then insult the open carriers.

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    Another nut case with a permission slip~~http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/l...200227051.html

    Drag racing nut case arrested with a permission slip~~http://blog.bradycampaign.org/2008/0...cing-incident/

    " Mr. Simons, his 4-year-old son strapped in behind him, slowed to a halt. The driver, Charles Diez, an Asheville firefighter, stopped as well. When Mr. Simons walked over, he found himself staring down the barrel of a gun.

    “Go ahead, I’ll shoot you,” Mr. Diez said, according to Mr. Simons. “I’ll kill you.”

    Mr. Simons turned to leave but heard a deafening bang. A bullet had passed through his bike helmet just above his left ear, barely missing him.

    Mr. Diez, as it turned out, was one of more than 240,000 people in North Carolina with a permit to carry a concealed handgun. If not for that gun, Mr. Simons is convinced, the confrontation would have ended harmlessly. “I bet it would have been a bunch of mouthing,” he said. "


    " To assess that claim, The New York Times examined the permit program in North Carolina, one of a dwindling number of states where the identities of permit holders remain public. The review, encompassing the last five years, offers a rare, detailed look at how a liberalized concealed weapons law has played out in one state. And while it does not provide answers, it does raise questions.

    More than 2,400 permit holders were convicted of felonies or misdemeanors, excluding traffic-related crimes, over the five-year period, The Times found when it compared databases of recent criminal court cases and licensees. While the figure represents a small percentage of those with permits, more than 200 were convicted of felonies, including at least 10 who committed murder or manslaughter. All but two of the killers used a gun. "


    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/27/us...anted=all&_r=0

    "Although Ohio’s controversial guns in bars law — the piece of legislation that allows conceal-carry permit owners to wear their firearms in establishments that serve alcohol — has only been on the books for a couple weeks, already an Ohioan has been arrested for waving his piece around at the local watering hole while intoxicated. "

    http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-...ing-gun-in-bar

    "The order for the hearing before the alcohol commission also alleges that [Jim] Gradishar was intoxicated and carrying a concealed handgun at the club on May 2. He had a permit to carry the weapon, but it’s a misdemeanor to be intoxicated while doing so. He has a court date set for July 15 on the charge."

    http://blog.bradycampaign.org/2008/0...to-strip-club/

    "… [Councilmember J.R.] Lawrence submitted to a series of alcohol tests including a Breathalyzer test, which resulted in a 0.179 percent blood alcohol test result, almost twice Ohio’s 0.08 limit. [Ohio State Trooper J.W.] Hunter said Lawrence was not given any other field sobriety tests due to claims of difficulty with his back and cancer-related issues. Lawrence also mentioned to the trooper several times that he was on prescription medication due to health problems.

    After failing a Breathalyzer test, Lawrence was arrested. Lawrence’s vehicle was released to a sober adult on the scene and his handgun was unloaded and seized by Hunter."


    http://blog.bradycampaign.org/2008/0...dling-firearm/

    "Guns-in-Bars Advocate Busted for Alleged Drunken Driving With Loaded Gun" Permit holder

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...th-loaded-gun/
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 03-28-2013 at 03:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFOVER View Post
    SNIP

    Really? Nothing I've found via the internet or from talking to people see it that way. In fact when you search Google the 2nd link that pops up is a news article about a guy being robbed while open carrying a firearm. How did they know he had a firearm? Hmmmmmm
    Because if it's on the internet it must be true!

    As for actual incidents these are the ones that I often hear

    1) Man who OCed gets robbed of gun while trying to get into his apartment. FALSE. Someone from this forum actually contacted the PD where the case happened and found out that the person who filed the charge was now being charged with "filing a false police report."
    2) Man gets held up at gunpoint and gun taken. Somewhat true. While yes the man was held up at gunpoint, from what I remember the criminal had simply targeted him for crime and only saw the gun AFTER the crime had started. The crime wasn't because of the OCed gun like people like to claim.
    3) Man victim of gun grab and killed with own gun. True. Though after the man had his gun taken he chased after the perp who then shot him. Last I heard it was unclear if he was killed by his gun or a different gun, but it was highly likely his. This possibility is also why it is "highly recommended" to have retention training and/or some type of retention holster (don't know if the man had retention training, but he didn't have a retention holster).

    I've heard of a few others, but most people don't even know of them and none of them were successful. But the thing to remember is that almost nothing in this world is 100% and that CCers aren't immune to having their guns taken. One has to weigh the risk/reward of both CC and OC and choose which one they think has the better risk/reward ratio. Oh and they need to be comfortable with that choice, as I know my parents are willing to agree in that they see how OC has a(n IMO) better risk/reward than CC, but they aren't comfortable with OCing even when accepting it to likely be the better overall option for protection.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    NC_HEEL take my word for it. taking away the need for a card is just to make it easier to CC. OC is already protected by constitutional carry.

    i think carrying is far better ( in any form) than not carrying at all. i just prefer to OC.

    one of the reasons we can't get carry in restaurants, is the misconception that people who carry will be drinking. if they carried open the there would be no problem in that. the server would just not serve them
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    NC_HEEL take my word for it. taking away the need for a card is just to make it easier to CC. OC is already protected by constitutional carry.

    i think carrying is far better ( in any form) than not carrying at all. i just prefer to OC.

    one of the reasons we can't get carry in restaurants, is the misconception that people who carry will be drinking. if they carried open the there would be no problem in that. the server would just not serve them
    Bear you are absolutely correct, we already have constitutional carry, open carry. While I have nothing wrong with including CC into the constitution as a right. I have a lot against the laws that make special privileges for permits, that would eventually tightening OC, and CC without a permit to pretty much the home. There are states that have pretty much outlawed OC without a permit, by restricting carry into any business that sells alcohol without a permit. Figure it out, that is almost every business on the highway anymore. What we need is to remove all restrictions on OC by court or GA. If CC is made the same as OC I have no problem with that, I will still open carry.

    God forbid we end up like Florida...
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Bear you are absolutely correct, we already have constitutional carry, open carry. While I have nothing wrong with including CC into the constitution as a right. I have a lot against the laws that make special privileges for permits, that would eventually tightening OC, and CC without a permit to pretty much the home. There are states that have pretty much outlawed OC without a permit, by restricting carry into any business that sells alcohol without a permit. Figure it out, that is almost every business on the highway anymore. What we need is to remove all restrictions on OC by court or GA. If CC is made the same as OC I have no problem with that, I will still open carry.

    God forbid we end up like Florida...
    Uggh I was just there last week. Couldn't stand it.

    Texas is like that too. Yes, we definitely do not want to end up like one of those states.

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    Re: All progun bills only towards Concealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by WTFOVER View Post
    Numbers has nothing to do with rights? How do you think things get passed? With numbers. If a person is approached to start a bill or support a bill by two different people. One with small numbers and one with large numbers who do you think they are going to appeal to? The largest group. Come on even a 5th grader knows that.



    Offensive to whom? Didn't bother me? I can only guess it means it bothers you



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    Really? Nothing I've found via the internet or from talking to people see it that way. In fact when you search Google the 2nd link that pops up is a news article about a guy being robbed while open carrying a firearm. How did they know he had a firearm? Hmmmmmm
    Government shouldn't tell you how to dress period. Wear the gun how you please. I don't understand how two sides with a common goal be so divided.

    There are many paths to a designation. How you walk it, is your choice I guess. If you have a fellow companion with you, it makes the journey that much more enjoyable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    NC_HEEL take my word for it. taking away the need for a card is just to make it easier to CC. OC is already protected by constitutional carry.
    If it is already easy to oc then why do you not see more of it? Why do so many people have a permit? It is because it is not easier to oc. It may be for you. It is harder to oc for a lot of people as evidenced by the posts that show up here every day. I hope you are not like others here that want no part of it unless there is something in it for them. How many people come on here scared to oc till they get their permit? How many people ask you how do you get a permit to open carry? How many people get harrassed, threatened with arrest or detained because they are oc'ing by a LEO that is against it or ignorant of the laws? If you don't think SB 410 will benefit all gun owners then you are not seeing the bigger picture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    If it is already easy to oc then why do you not see more of it? Why do so many people have a permit? It is because it is not easier to oc. It may be for you. It is harder to oc for a lot of people as evidenced by the posts that show up here every day. I hope you are not like others here that want no part of it unless there is something in it for them. How many people come on here scared to oc till they get their permit? How many people ask you how do you get a permit to open carry? How many people get harrassed, threatened with arrest or detained because they are oc'ing by a LEO that is against it or ignorant of the laws? If you don't think SB 410 will benefit all gun owners then you are not seeing the bigger picture.
    It never occurred to me that it was legal, until I found OCDO, and I think most people don't know.

    Apparently neither do some LEO's although reading through various threads, that appears to be getting better.

    Personally, I have a strong distrust when I hear this is only a little, we'll get more later, especially when the leader of the group seems openly condesending towards the idea of OC. I also have a hard time with the thought process that puts a privilege ahead of a right.

    If I don't want a card, why should I have to get one to enjoy dinner at a place that serves alcohol when I don't need one to go shopping or anything else?
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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Bear you are absolutely correct, we already have constitutional carry, open carry. While I have nothing wrong with including CC into the constitution as a right. I have a lot against the laws that make special privileges for permits, that would eventually tightening OC, and CC without a permit to pretty much the home. There are states that have pretty much outlawed OC without a permit, by restricting carry into any business that sells alcohol without a permit. Figure it out, that is almost every business on the highway anymore. What we need is to remove all restrictions on OC by court or GA. If CC is made the same as OC I have no problem with that, I will still open carry.

    God forbid we end up like Florida...
    Agreed
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  18. #18
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    Government shouldn't tell you how to dress period. Wear the gun how you please. I don't understand how two sides with a common goal be so divided.

    There are many paths to a designation. How you walk it, is your choice I guess. If you have a fellow companion with you, it makes the journey that much more enjoyable.

    Advocate both sides, not just one or the other.


    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    most OCers never have a problem with people that are ashamed they are armed. most Ocers want everyone to carry , no matter which way they do it. we do have a problem with people trying to force us to carry the way they want to

    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    If it is already easy to oc then why do you not see more of it? Why do so many people have a permit? It is because it is not easier to oc. It may be for you. It is harder to oc for a lot of people as evidenced by the posts that show up here every day. I hope you are not like others here that want no part of it unless there is something in it for them. How many people come on here scared to oc till they get their permit? How many people ask you how do you get a permit to open carry? How many people get harrassed, threatened with arrest or detained because they are oc'ing by a LEO that is against it or ignorant of the laws? If you don't think SB 410 will benefit all gun owners then you are not seeing the bigger picture.
    the problem with people is that don't know the laws and a lot of people that bias the information to that only CC is good. i personally feel that hiding your gun is a bad thing. as far as harassment by LEO. the more we carry the less that will happen, unless of course they get there way and outlaw OC

    Quote Originally Posted by WTFOVER View Post
    Numbers has nothing to do with rights? How do you think things get passed? With numbers. If a person is approached to start a bill or support a bill by two different people. One with small numbers and one with large numbers who do you think they are going to appeal to? The largest group. Come on even a 5th grader knows that.



    Offensive to whom? Didn't bother me? I can only guess it means it bothers you



    Answer



    Really? Nothing I've found via the internet or from talking to people see it that way. In fact when you search Google the 2nd link that pops up is a news article about a guy being robbed while open carrying a firearm. How did they know he had a firearm? Hmmmmmm
    according to statistics, if there are 10,000 CC carriers (of course this is based on permission issued, while a lot of these card holders OC) and only 4,000 OC. then there are 8,300,000+ people that don't carry at all in NC, so do you want them to outlaw carry period. lets go with basic rights instead of majority rules, as in a democracy

    BTW, people get their wallets stolen. do you want them to stop carrying wallets?
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  19. #19
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    sorry another thought

    by making CC not a permission any more, only makes it harder to OC. if you don't have to have a card anymore then you will be expected to CC.

    like i have said before, i grew up with hiding your gun is a bad thing. it plays to the ignorance of the people that CC is better. they think if they don't see the gun everything is unicorns and rainbows.

    i carry to protect myself and i carry open so no one will be tempted
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    No it wont Papa Bear. A lot of people will conceal but at that point it becomes personal choice. Conceal if you want or open carry if you want. The big deal now is the cops harassing someone if they have a permit but open carry. You have a permit so how about concealing it attitude we have heard about here. Without a permit needed all you have to tell them is I prefer open when given an option. When people look up the laws and we have Constitutional Carry they will see it is open or concealed, their option. When you google "carrying a gun in NC" you get permit this, conceal carry that, etc. This leads today's generation to believe that is the only way to legally arm yourself in NC. With Constitutional Carry all that will change.

    To everyone that wants to complain about putting a privilege before a right, in an ideal world we wouldn't have to. Unfortunately we are not in a perfect world. In NC, gun owners may or may not be a slight majority but when it comes to carrying a firearm we are the minority. There are many firearm owners out there that do not think people should be allowed carry outside of our homes. I have met many of them. So the problem we have is all anti's are against us. Putting us immediately at 50/50. Then you add in firearm owners that think personal carry is wrong. Now we are down to cc'ers and oc'ers. But we have oc'ers that fight against bills because it does not address oc or they feel cc'ers are getting too many privileges. In today's society privileges are going to have to come first. There is no way anything will get done without concessions. That is the way our government works. I do not understand the attitude of "if I can't do it because I do not wish to participate then no one should be able to do it". The way you affect change with this particular subject is you ask for the privilege then later do away with asking for permission. Just like permits. We asked for permits to conceal and now we are trying to get rid of asking for permission. Then we ask for the privilege of concealing in certain areas. It is easier to get permission that way because in the politicians mind they think they are still in control of the situation. They are making people get certifications for the privilege and it is not the general populace but a select few in their eyes. Once that happens to no seen detriment gun owners ask for everyone to be included with no government documentation.

    The other way is to demand it is everyone or no one. That mentality will not get any of us very far.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 03-29-2013 at 02:59 PM.
    "I'm kinda high (or maybe low) profile around here, to hate on me is just sour grapes." - NCHeel

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  21. #21
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Because concessions has worked so well in the past, and in the states that lost OC...

    Bull Hockey, the problem is lobbyists, and those fooled by them, or hire them to create a elite they can milk for money.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    sorry another thought

    by making CC not a permission any more, only makes it harder to OC. if you don't have to have a card anymore then you will be expected to CC.

    like i have said before, i grew up with hiding your gun is a bad thing. it plays to the ignorance of the people that CC is better. they think if they don't see the gun everything is unicorns and rainbows.

    i carry to protect myself and i carry open so no one will be tempted
    Expected to cc by who?

    All it really does is take away the illegality of carrying concealed in the state, and leaves the permit in place for people who want to get one for whatever reason. I see is as the beginning of the end of the need for a CHP, although any law or program is always subject to abuse. When you look at the big picture, it's being done the way it was designed: Get the ability to cc in the state, build up a history to stand on in terms of erasing the false fear created around all gun owners, and then begin to slowly eliminate the need for the permit while slipping in laws which erase prior restrictions where possible for all gun owners.

    I understand the pure frustration of how slow the process is, but you have to remember, the climate in Raleigh for any kind of change has only been viable for a few years now. Prior to that, it was virtually impossible to get anything passed. When the full-on assault failed and left a bunch of supporting Republican politicians looking elsewhere for work due to being skinned by the voters and the political leaders, a slower method was adopted until such time when the climate had changed in Raleigh.

    Now, for the first time in 100 years, it's changed and the hopes are that progress can be made for all gun owners. Now it's time to chip away at some of this stuff. I'm all for crashing the gates in Raleigh and demanding they pass what we want them too, but the sad fact is that you won't get very far like that.

    If anyone has a better plan that can be proven effective, I'm all ears. I'll follow, simply lead on and I'm behind you or beside you.

  23. #23
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    Expected to cc by who?

    All it really does is take away the illegality of carrying concealed in the state, and leaves the permit in place for people who want to get one for whatever reason. I see is as the beginning of the end of the need for a CHP, although any law or program is always subject to abuse. When you look at the big picture, it's being done the way it was designed: Get the ability to cc in the state, build up a history to stand on in terms of erasing the false fear created around all gun owners, and then begin to slowly eliminate the need for the permit while slipping in laws which erase prior restrictions where possible for all gun owners.

    I understand the pure frustration of how slow the process is, but you have to remember, the climate in Raleigh for any kind of change has only been viable for a few years now. Prior to that, it was virtually impossible to get anything passed. When the full-on assault failed and left a bunch of supporting Republican politicians looking elsewhere for work due to being skinned by the voters and the political leaders, a slower method was adopted until such time when the climate had changed in Raleigh.

    Now, for the first time in 100 years, it's changed and the hopes are that progress can be made for all gun owners. Now it's time to chip away at some of this stuff. I'm all for crashing the gates in Raleigh and demanding they pass what we want them too, but the sad fact is that you won't get very far like that.

    If anyone has a better plan that can be proven effective, I'm all ears. I'll follow, simply lead on and I'm behind you or beside you.
    Like getting dinner at a restaurant, buying gas at a gas station that sells alcohol, or at the grocery store. Or entering a state park(this is a good one for showing the lobbyists for the tyrants they are).

    It is not much of a right if GRNC gets it's way and puts more restrictions on where a NON permit holder can carry. Nothing like fancy foot work by political hacks.

    NO THANKS! I would much prefer that constitutional open carry remain as it is without GRNC pushing for laws that only permit permission card holders to carry.

    COMMENT REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Bashing other gun rights group.
    Last edited by John Pierce; 04-02-2013 at 10:18 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  24. #24
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Like getting dinner at a restaurant, buying gas at a gas station that sells alcohol, or at the grocery store. Or entering a state park(this is a good one for showing the lobbyists for the tyrants they are).

    It is not much of a right if GRNC gets it's way and puts more restrictions on where a NON permit holder can carry. Nothing like fancy foot work by political hacks.

    NO THANKS! I would much prefer that constitutional open carry remain as it is without GRNC pushing for laws that only permit permission card holders to carry.

    Until GRNC changes it's agenda to eliminate OC I will fight every single bill they put up.
    Noooo problem.

    But your false assessment of GRNC seeking to "eliminate OC" is obviously built upon a flat out lie. Your lie, that is.

    I understand your sentiment and agree with many of your views concerning OC. I don't have a permit either for many of the same reasons you do, although you stated you once did have one in the past.

    I never have had one.

    But what you won't get away with is spreading flat out lies unchecked. You spreading around the lie that GRNC is anti OC is one of the more ridiculous things I've seen out there on forums.

    That said, let's talk about another distortion of the truth. This one may be a simple mistake on your part and not a flat out lie. We'll see here in a minute.:

    It is not much of a right if GRNC gets it's way and puts more restrictions on where a NON permit holder can carry
    Exactly what additional restrictions are they (GRNC) putting on where a NON permit holder can carry? Be specific and give a reference, please.

    Because I've seen where both CC and OC were already restricted and then they helped change laws which affected where OC and CC can carry in just the past few years. What I haven't seen is where GRNC has been responsible for adding additional restrictions to places were we can OC. I'd like to see your references for those claims.

    The examples you provided here...:

    Like getting dinner at a restaurant, buying gas at a gas station that sells alcohol, or at the grocery store.
    ...are not restricted in any way by state law. They are restricted only by virtue of the business owner's discretion. I OC'd today at a gas station that sells alcohol, in fact. I went to the grocery store last night, too (Food Lion on Reaford Rd), and have spent many a times in restaurants eating while OCing. According to state law, you may not carry no matter the method in places that both sell and serve alcohol, so as of right now, that's a non-issue. To say that they will all suddenly decide that we can no longer carry there openly would be their decision, not the law or GRNC's.

    If that turns out to be the case, I'll continue to do what I do already: refuse to give those businesses any of my money.

    But again, exactly what additional restrictions has GRNC added that have resulted in more places where we cannot OC.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by rotorhead; 03-29-2013 at 06:28 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    It is not much of a right if GRNC gets it's way and puts more restrictions on where a NON permit holder can carry.
    Wabbit hit me up on facebook and wants to know if you can cite this statement? A statement that is an obvious violation of forum rule #12. How about one example of where an additional restriction has been added to non permit holders since 1994 when GRNC was formed that concealed carriers can go? Opening an additional place for permit holders to carry that no one was allowed to carry in the first place is not adding restrictions to non permit holders. You can't call something an additional restriction if it was never allowed in the first place.
    "I'm kinda high (or maybe low) profile around here, to hate on me is just sour grapes." - NCHeel

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