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Thread: Has open carry in Illinois been hidden in plain sight?

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    Has open carry in Illinois been hidden in plain sight?

    I have a Facebook page " Illinois Open Carry ". I received a private message that asked a question, that after reading our statute really cant answer. I posted the following question there, and am posting it here as well:

    Is open carry in Illinois hidden in plain sight? I received the following in a Private Message. It got me thinking. In a vehicle it seem the firearm must be unloaded and enclosed in a case, but the prohibition for carrying a firearm only seems to be if it's concealed. Can anyone find anywhere in the Illinois statutes that disputes or modifies this? From the message:

    " I was wondering did you ever get around to looking into Illinois statute 720 ILCS 5 24 a(4), that states... A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly: Carries or possesses in any vehicle or CONCEALED on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm.

    I was born ane raised in Illinois, before I moved to Virginia. I am an open carry advocate, a NRA firearms instructor, and I also run a small business that makes gun holsters. I have many friends that are FOID holders in Illinois, and are very qurious about the answer to this debate amongst us. Your response/ assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you "

    Obviously the NRA, ISRA, or the " Website that shall not be named " would not want this known because it would interfere with their giving away all our other 2A rights in trade for Concealed Carry. But, do we, and have we always had the right to OPEN CARRY?

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    Regular Member Alamo Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    Illinois statute 720 ILCS 5 24 a(4), that states... A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly: ...............................Carries or possesses in any vehicle or CONCEALED on or about his person............................... except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm.
    Reference the area I put in elipses. It would seem that it does, in fact, outlaw open carry. It says 'Carries or possesses in any vehicle OR concealed on or about his person'. It looks like you put the emphasis one word too late.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I believe the law you are looking for describes how a firearm may be transported. If not in the fashion described in the law it is illegal. Open carry does not fall into the details for transporting a firearm. Actually concealed carry has always been legal in Illinois as long as the law for transportation is followed. Not that a unloaded gun is any good whether open or concealed.

    How do I legally transport a firearm on my person or in my vehicle?

    In order to comply with the Criminal Code, the Wildlife Code, and the Firearm Owner’s Identification Act, when transporting a firearm, it must be:

    broken down in a non-functioning state; or
    not immediately accessible; or
    unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner’s Identification Card.


    Above is from ISP website http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 03-28-2013 at 05:59 PM.
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    Section 10 of the UUW law also prohibits open carrying a firearm unless it's " broken dow, in accessible, or un-loaded and enclosed in a case inside any city, town or village incorporated limits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I believe the law you are looking for describes how a firearm may be transported. If not in the fashion described in the law it is illegal. Open carry does not fall into the details for transporting a firearm. Actually concealed carry has always been legal in Illinois as long as the law for transportation is followed. Not that a unloaded gun is any good whether open or concealed.

    How do I legally transport a firearm on my person or in my vehicle?

    In order to comply with the Criminal Code, the Wildlife Code, and the Firearm Owner’s Identification Act, when transporting a firearm, it must be:

    broken down in a non-functioning state; or
    not immediately accessible; or
    unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner’s Identification Card.


    Above is from ISP website http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm
    Actually it has changed -> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...cs%2F1-154.pdf <- Lot's of changes actually. No more reference to persons with a FOID card. Legal non residents can transport the same. It also states you can have the case on or about your person, and that you can have loaded magazines in the same compartment of the case, just not in the well.
    Last edited by kurt555gs; 03-28-2013 at 07:46 PM.

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    One more Illinois issue. Even where it is legal to open carry, you will be arrested anyway. The actual law doesn't really matter much here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alamo Jack View Post
    Reference the area I put in elipses. It would seem that it does, in fact, outlaw open carry. It says 'Carries or possesses in any vehicle OR concealed on or about his person'. It looks like you put the emphasis one word too late.
    Actually, this part does not, on a surface reading, seem to prohibit open carry. The way the grammar is set up, there are 4 things that are prohibited: (1) carrying a weapon in any vehicle, (2) posessing a weapon in any vehicle, (3) carrying a concealed weapon, or (4) possessing a concealed weapon. This can be seen from the fact that "carries" and "possesses" are verbs, and "in any vehicle" and "concealed" are adverbs/adverbial phrases modifying the verbs.

    Of course, there is another section of the law that makes possession of a loaded firearm, concealed or not, illegal (subject to exceptions) inside any incorporated area, city, town, etc. Pretty much, open carry (absent local restrictions) would appear to be legal only in rural areas, much like California is now.

    DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer. None of the above information is, or should be construed as, legal advice. I accept no liability for any actions that a person may or may not take based upon this information. For legal advice, consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    Actually, this part does not, on a surface reading, seem to prohibit open carry. The way the grammar is set up, there are 4 things that are prohibited: (1) carrying a weapon in any vehicle, (2) posessing a weapon in any vehicle, (3) carrying a concealed weapon, or (4) possessing a concealed weapon. This can be seen from the fact that "carries" and "possesses" are verbs, and "in any vehicle" and "concealed" are adverbs/adverbial phrases modifying the verbs.

    Of course, there is another section of the law that makes possession of a loaded firearm, concealed or not, illegal (subject to exceptions) inside any incorporated area, city, town, etc. Pretty much, open carry (absent local restrictions) would appear to be legal only in rural areas, much like California is now.

    DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer. None of the above information is, or should be construed as, legal advice. I accept no liability for any actions that a person may or may not take based upon this information. For legal advice, consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction.
    I don't have the statutes handy, but firearms are covered in more than one area of law in Illinois. It is covered in criminal law, and conservation law. Even outside incorporated areas the transport laws must be followed unless hunting or fishing, so open carry is illegal. I tried last night to find the statutes and apparently I was not typing in the correct search. Violating the laws I believe is a misdemeanor, but they confiscate your gun.
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    I believe OC is legal on private property. My brother lives near Rockford and says the gun shop they frequent, the emloyees are all OCing. Plus they had an OC meetup at some gun store where the public was invited to attend and OC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wethepeople View Post
    I believe OC is legal on private property. My brother lives near Rockford and says the gun shop they frequent, the emloyees are all OCing. Plus they had an OC meetup at some gun store where the public was invited to attend and OC.
    Open or concealed carry is legal on private property with the owners permission, that law passed a couple years ago. Local ordinances could prohibit it. Chicago prohibits people from carrying on their porch, but that is Chicago.

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    Has open carry in Illinois been hidden in plain sight?

    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Open Carry is only allowed for people actively hunting. The reason for the 7th District Court's ruling last December is that only Illinois also bans Concealed Carry.

    That is expected to change on
    June 9th, 2013.

    That is when Judge Posner's injunction goes into effect, barring Illinois from enforcing the "unlawful use" statutes. If - repeat IF - there is no law on the books by then, Illinois will have "Constitutional Carry" for every person that has a FOID card.

    Unfortunately, that piece of "claptrap" is still valid.
    Open carry is legal while hunting, but if you cross over on someone else's property you don't have to permission to be, accidentally or not, you commit a felony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Open Carry is only allowed for people actively hunting. The reason for the 7th District Court's ruling last December is that only Illinois also bans Concealed Carry.

    That is expected to change on
    June 9th, 2013.

    That is when Judge Posner's injunction goes into effect, barring Illinois from enforcing the "unlawful use" statutes. If - repeat IF - there is no law on the books by then, Illinois will have "Constitutional Carry" for every person that has a FOID card.

    Unfortunately, that piece of "claptrap" is still valid.
    First I would like to say I am so glad I found this site, it seems that it would help me cope or figure out my problem. I have been burned by this ridiculous law a year ago. I've been sentenced to probation for 2 years with no jail time since I had my FOID card. Also now I'm a felon. I haven't been arrested in my whole life until that moment and I'm 28. I felt my lawyer gave up on my case and persuaded me to take the 2 year probation instead of fighting it and facing jail time. Yes I did have the loaded gun in my back pocket on an apartment complex where I live. But I feel this is so unfair and unconstitutional. I'm just now realizing and hoping that in some miraculous way I could get an appeal even though it's been a year. How the police found out i had the weapon.... I told them after I was arrested for a domestic dispute, but in now way shape or form that I intended to use it I actually forgot it was on me as I was sitting in my car when they came, I was also a little tipsy. I really regret I got the gun

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjm View Post
    First I would like to say I am so glad I found this site, it seems that it would help me cope or figure out my problem. I have been burned by this ridiculous law a year ago. I've been sentenced to probation for 2 years with no jail time since I had my FOID card. Also now I'm a felon. I haven't been arrested in my whole life until that moment and I'm 28. I felt my lawyer gave up on my case and persuaded me to take the 2 year probation instead of fighting it and facing jail time. Yes I did have the loaded gun in my back pocket on an apartment complex where I live. But I feel this is so unfair and unconstitutional. I'm just now realizing and hoping that in some miraculous way I could get an appeal even though it's been a year. How the police found out i had the weapon.... I told them after I was arrested for a domestic dispute, but in now way shape or form that I intended to use it I actually forgot it was on me as I was sitting in my car when they came, I was also a little tipsy. I really regret I got the gun
    Get another attorney, move from Illinois. Not sure how the current ruling would effect your standing, a lawyer would have to answer that. Don't ever get into domestic disputes anywhere with a weapon, bad news in any state. In fact as impossible as it sounds, never get into a argument in a domestic situation, just bad news legally. Marriage tiffs are pretty much illegal in this country, best to get away from someone who might get you time in the grey bar hotel. And if you must argue, RECORD! Just because your spouse might not call police, your nosy neighbor will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Get another attorney, move from Illinois. Not sure how the current ruling would effect your standing, a lawyer would have to answer that. Don't ever get into domestic disputes anywhere with a weapon, bad news in any state. In fact as impossible as it sounds, never get into a argument in a domestic situation, just bad news legally. Marriage tiffs are pretty much illegal in this country, best to get away from someone who might get you time in the grey bar hotel. And if you must argue, RECORD! Just because your spouse might not call police, your nosy neighbor will.
    how'd you know it was a marriage dispute, lol. but yea. Why do you say move from illinois

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    I have been pondering this for a while, but how is it even logically allowable for a law that has been found unconstitutional to still be used against state citizens? How is it that people who were previously convicted by this unconstitutional law still have to serve their time and still have a record of violating an unconstitutional law? Allowing the rights of citizens to continue to be violated until they come up with likely another way to violate people's rights is ridiculous.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    I have been pondering this for a while, but how is it even logically allowable for a law that has been found unconstitutional to still be used against state citizens? How is it that people who were previously convicted by this unconstitutional law still have to serve their time and still have a record of violating an unconstitutional law? Allowing the rights of citizens to continue to be violated until they come up with likely another way to violate people's rights is ridiculous.
    The ruling was stayed(delayed) for 180 days. This works in a similar way to a deferred judgement. If someone commits a crime and enters a conditional guilty plea with a deferred judgement then, after completing the conditions of their probation and paying the assigned fees, they are free to go, the record is sealed and it is as if it never happened(so long as they don't commit more crime). With this stay on the ruling, it's like the ruling was made 180 days later, thus allowing time for the legislature to construct new laws that aren't blatantly unconstitutional. At least that's how I think it goes. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    I have been pondering this for a while, but how is it even logically allowable for a law that has been found unconstitutional to still be used against state citizens? How is it that people who were previously convicted by this unconstitutional law still have to serve their time and still have a record of violating an unconstitutional law? Allowing the rights of citizens to continue to be violated until they come up with likely another way to violate people's rights is ridiculous.
    I hope there's something I can find or do. I don't have any money for a lawyer to even try for an appeal, so I was thinking of pursuing an appellate defender or do it on my own, because I just can't see this,happening I still feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wll,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by bjm View Post
    First I would like to say I am so glad I found this site, it seems that it would help me cope or figure out my problem. I have been burned by this ridiculous law a year ago. I've been sentenced to probation for 2 years with no jail time since I had my FOID card. Also now I'm a felon. I haven't been arrested in my whole life until that moment and I'm 28. I felt my lawyer gave up on my case and persuaded me to take the 2 year probation instead of fighting it and facing jail time. Yes I did have the loaded gun in my back pocket on an apartment complex where I live. But I feel this is so unfair and unconstitutional. I'm just now realizing and hoping that in some miraculous way I could get an appeal even though it's been a year. How the police found out i had the weapon.... I told them after I was arrested for a domestic dispute, but in now way shape or form that I intended to use it I actually forgot it was on me as I was sitting in my car when they came, I was also a little tipsy. I really regret I got the gun
    dont regret the gun,,, the gun is not what went wrong...

    regret being tipsy
    regret being tipsy then getting in your car
    regret being tipsy and arguing with your partner
    regret that being tipsy probaby lead to this and many other times you had these arguments with your partner
    regret that being tipsy probably lead this argument to being so loud and so long that somebody called he cops
    regret that being tipsy lead to a domestic dispute, called in to the cops, to find you in your motor vehicle,
    with your gun in you pocket, and a mad partner, and cops that had to interupt their real jobs to deal with you!

    some people should not have guns and drink
    some people should not drink and have guns
    some people should not have guns
    some people should not drink!!!

    Which one of these people are you??? Really?
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    I was negligent on handling the gun, due to 2 car robberies and a stolen vehicle within the same yr. I got me a gun. I wasn't tipsy to the point you would notice as the cops didn't i was calm, just forgot about the gun. If that the case I would've just through the gun in the trunk from the inside. But I was trying to stop someone from driving drunk really driving my car car home. but the cops let a drunk person leave and drive off, but detain me because I had my gun on me. that person driving drunk could've killed someone as Illinois has strict dui laws... but they let that person take possession of the keys and when they left the premises she left. I always loaded my gun when carrying it from my car to inside my home, I didn't know if I was going to get rob, stabbed, or shot since whoever loved breaking into my car. I had police reports to show why I got the gun. They even got the statements from the "drunk person" stating yes I was keeping them from driving and that they were drinking too much that night, but all that didn't matter.

    EDIT: I regret arguing, I should've just let that person drive off and not care about their well being or anyone else... last I heard friends don't let friends drive drunk.
    Last edited by bjm; 05-31-2013 at 02:35 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I said move from Illinois because the government of Illinois has a pronounced progressive lean. If they could get away with communism they would.

    In some if not many of the states you can still own a antique firearm which are very capable for self defense. Keep in mind if you get caught carrying one it may be treated as a firearm, and not antique. Illinois treats antique firearms as firearms, you are prohibited in Illinois.
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    I'm looking for some help to help other people in my situation here in Illinois. Would it be best to get a petition going or file a lawsuit against the state of Illinois, because anyone who held a FOID card and became a felon over an unconstitutional law is unjust and should be granted to have there case turned over or at the least an expungement instead of a pardon, which will then go against violent crimes not being able to be expungement but how the hell is an UUW a violent crime if all you did was have it on you (not in use). This situation really needs to be heard from higher power.

  22. #22
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjm View Post
    I'm looking for some help to help other people in my situation here in Illinois. Would it be best to get a petition going or file a lawsuit against the state of Illinois, because anyone who held a FOID card and became a felon over an unconstitutional law is unjust and should be granted to have there case turned over or at the least an expungement instead of a pardon, which will then go against violent crimes not being able to be expungement but how the hell is an UUW a violent crime if all you did was have it on you (not in use). This situation really needs to be heard from higher power.
    You had it on you in a domestic dispute. Even if it was a misdemeanor under federal laws you are disabled from your firearm rights. Contact a attorney, that is your best bet.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    You had it on you in a domestic dispute. Even if it was a misdemeanor under federal laws you are disabled from your firearm rights. Contact a attorney, that is your best bet.
    yea but even if I wasn't in a domestic dispute it's still classified as a violent crime. Yes, I do need to find a "good" lawyer not just any lawyer, I've learned my lesson.

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