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Thread: What do the "liberals" really want?

  1. #1
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    What do the "liberals" really want?

    http://americasfuture.org/doublethin...th-the-effort/

    The article talks about the Democrats spending political capital unwisely. Why would a Cuomo in NY or a Hicklenlooper in CO shoot themselves in the foot politically? Both of those guys would love to be Dear Leader on Pennsylvania Ave and now they will never get the chance. They can't be this dumb. Is their lust to see us in cattle cars that great? I don't get it.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member Samopal's Avatar
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    Liberals want everyone to be able to enjoy their rights to the fullest extent. "Liberal", from "liberty".

    You mean what do Democrats want? I don't know, they're a strange bunch.
    You can never be too rich, too good-looking, or too well-armed.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I was asking myself this very question the other day, being the Liberal that I am.

    Beretta92fslady, what do you really want?

    Just a bit of what I want:

    -Criminals, first, not committing crimes (then that would mean they aren't criminals!), and if they do, not committing crimes with firearms.--generally, I just want criminals to not commit crimes, though.
    -People not to die at the business end of firearms.
    -World peace.

    What I would like as well: I would like to stop reading, and hearing people on the 'Right' blame everything on Liberals. Social issues are complex, and they go beyond politics, and span across all political affiliations.

    What do Liberals want in Colorado, in passing laws regarding firearms. They want the same thing most (assuming) people want, irrespective of political affiliation: Less people being killed by the hand of a criminal wielding a firearm.


    Being a firearm owner, a Liberal, and OC'r, a frequenter of pro-Second Amendment pages (for many years), I have come to realize that firearm owners who bark about everything negative being Liberal, are more about the argument, and very little about pro-Second Amendment, and firearm ownership. 'They' would rather blame Liberals for all issues, sit back like a bunch of cowards, and not get their hands dirty in actually doing something about the reason there's a need for firearms, and there's a call to ban or restrict them.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 03-30-2013 at 12:49 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samopal View Post
    Liberals want everyone to be able to enjoy their rights to the fullest extent. "Liberal", from "liberty".

    You mean what do Democrats want? I don't know, they're a strange bunch.
    Liberal no longer means liberty, it means excess(liberal) of government, some conservatives, and libertarians are those who support liberty. Liberals now are deeply imbedded in progressive government.
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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Liberal no longer means liberty, it means excess(liberal) of government, some conservatives, and libertarians are those who support liberty. Liberals now are deeply imbedded in progressive government.
    Progressive Government may be the answer to issues that Conservative Government always failed at. It appears Progressive Government is doing a better job at dealing with issues.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Progressive Government may be the answer to issues that Conservative Government always failed at. It appears Progressive Government is doing a better job at dealing with issues.
    And it appears the magician uses magic to pull a rabbit out of a hat.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Progressive Government may be the answer to issues that Conservative Government always failed at. It appears Progressive Government is doing a better job at dealing with issues.
    I'm a liberal.

    A liberal believes that a boss is a boss is a boss, and that calling yourself a "socialist" doesn't cleanse you of original sin.

    A "progressive" is somebody who thinks that there are "no enemies to the left" and that we shouldn't overlook all of the "good" that Stalin did.

    A real liberal is wary of government while accepting that only government can effectively do some things. A progressive worships government, glories in every exercise of government power (under THEIR control) and is willing to break an infinite number of eggs in order to make the "omelet" du jour.

    Progressives have always reminded me far more of Vladimir Putin than Hubert Humphrey. Nothing has changed in forty years.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    I think that they have drank too much of the NYC Koolaid....they are not human anymore but zombies...

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post

    What do Liberals want in Colorado, in passing laws regarding firearms. They want the same thing most (assuming) people want, irrespective of political affiliation: Less people being killed by the hand of a criminal wielding a firearm.

    I don't agree. The more people killed by private criminals, the more license politicians get to "protect public safety". As Rahm Emanuel said, "you never let a crisis go to waste." Are you telling me Hickenlooper is smart enough to go from regular joe to governor, but he honestly thinks limiting magazine capacity to 15 rounds or requiring "universal back ground checks" will have a measurable impact on violence utilizing a firearm? No, if we're being honest every reasonable, deliberate person knows it will have no effect. He signed the bills for political reasons, which reasons, if dropped by the DNC, would maybe give them super-majorities in every state legislature and Congress.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  10. #10
    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    What do the "liberals" really want?

    CONTROL
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

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  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I was asking myself this very question the other day, being the Liberal that I am.

    Beretta92fslady, what do you really want?

    Just a bit of what I want:

    -Criminals, first, not committing crimes (then that would mean they aren't criminals!), and if they do, not committing crimes with firearms.--generally, I just want criminals to not commit crimes, though.
    -People not to die at the business end of firearms.
    -World peace.

    What I would like as well: I would like to stop reading, and hearing people on the 'Right' blame everything on Liberals. Social issues are complex, and they go beyond politics, and span across all political affiliations.

    What do Liberals want in Colorado, in passing laws regarding firearms. They want the same thing most (assuming) people want, irrespective of political affiliation: Less people being killed by the hand of a criminal wielding a firearm.


    Being a firearm owner, a Liberal, and OC'r, a frequenter of pro-Second Amendment pages (for many years), I have come to realize that firearm owners who bark about everything negative being Liberal, are more about the argument, and very little about pro-Second Amendment, and firearm ownership. 'They' would rather blame Liberals for all issues, sit back like a bunch of cowards, and not get their hands dirty in actually doing something about the reason there's a need for firearms, and there's a call to ban or restrict them.
    If you would like to stop reading and hearing people on the right.....do not read or listen. You can start with this post.

    I do blame all liberals, regardless of political affiliation, for all issues that liberals advance that restrict liberty. You desire liberty to be restricted to that which liberals think are reasonable. What is apparent to all is that you are not interested in liberty but tyranny with state sanctioned latitude. Liberals, such as yourself, fear the free exercise of our enumerated rights by your fellow citizen because that free exercise is a threat to liberals and their anti-liberty agenda.

    Liberals fear the consequences of too much liberty.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson (Letter to Archibald Stuart, December 23, 1791)
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    What do the "liberals" really want?

    CONTROL
    As most people use the term today, that is true. As the term would have been used 250 years ago, that is not true.

    To make that distinction and to make sure that discussions don't degrade into arguments, it is best to refer to those two vastly different kinds of liberals as "progressives" and as "classical liberals." I am a conservative and a classical liberal.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If you would like to stop reading and hearing people on the right.....do not read or listen. You can start with this post.

    I do blame all liberals, regardless of political affiliation, for all issues that liberals advance that restrict liberty. You desire liberty to be restricted to that which liberals think are reasonable. What is apparent to all is that you are not interested in liberty but tyranny with state sanctioned latitude. Liberals, such as yourself, fear the free exercise of our enumerated rights by your fellow citizen because that free exercise is a threat to liberals and their anti-liberty agenda.

    Liberals fear the consequences of too much liberty.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson (Letter to Archibald Stuart, December 23, 1791)
    There you have it, everything is the fault of a Liberal. Enjoy your loss; you will lose because you're too busy knee deep in your Dogma. It's unfortunate, I expected more from a letterman.

    I have never felt a tyranny like your posts...they are an albatross hanging over me, and it feels so good
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  14. #14
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Enjoy your loss; you will lose because you're too busy knee deep in your Dogma.
    I'm knee deep in my "dogma" that government is not my friend, never mind my god. Progressives are eye deep in nihilistic worship of government power for its own sake.
    Last edited by Deanimator; 03-31-2013 at 02:15 PM.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    I'm knee deep in my "dogma" that government is not my friend, never mind my god. Progressives are eye deep in nihilistic worship of government power for its own sake.
    Clam down! Don't make me call you Probee-officer!!

    I appreciate your openness regarding your personal Dogma. This is therapeutic for both of us.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  16. #16
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    There you have it, everything is the fault of a Liberal. Enjoy your loss; you will lose because you're too busy knee deep in your Dogma. It's unfortunate, I expected more from a letterman.

    I have never felt a tyranny like your posts...they are an albatross hanging over me, and it feels so good
    Yes, everything is the fault of the liberal when the liberal votes to restrict liberty. Liberalism and its toxic effects on our country would not exist without liberals such as yourself.

    Liberals have many valid concerns and hold some views that are without question to be respected. However, when the liberal votes to have their views that restrict liberty forced upon the citizenry via the power of the state then the liberal and their ideology must be defeated. You consistently espouse the natural right to self-defense for all citizens yet vote to deny them that right.

    I have, in the past, agreed with you on some minor issues. You are a thoughtful thinker yet waste your intellect as a proponent of the liberal ideology. You could be a valuable ally in the restoration of our country's founding principals, another voice to sway those around you to vote for liberty. Unfortunately your liberalness prevents you from being a partner in the quest to restore this country to that which our Founders envisioned.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    As most people use the term today, that is true. As the term would have been used 250 years ago, that is not true.

    To make that distinction and to make sure that discussions don't degrade into arguments, it is best to refer to those two vastly different kinds of liberals as "progressives" and as "classical liberals." I am a conservative and a classical liberal.
    I would also fall under the heading of a classic liberal, and I would add to that a constitutionalist. Most of our Founders were classic liberals and it is quite easy to see why. Look what they went through and what they used as their template for designing this nation.

    Present day liberal thought does not coincide with that of classic liberal thought. Having been one in the 60's and early 70's, I have had the opportunity to travel in both camps. They believe what they do for reasons they feel are best for all, which could also describe conservative beliefs. A well-grounded conservative belief structure has to be wrapped around the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and specifically the original intent of the documents.
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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    What do liberals want?

    It is more about what liberals THINK - liberals think that government is benevolent and government is capable of doing good. I have no doubt the intentions of such things as income taxes, social security, medicare, "public safety" were indeed good things. But, liberals have a hard time understanding that government is not benevolent and forget human nature that people in power have a natural impulse to assume greater control and twist the intentions of their benevolently good programs to things for which they were never intended. Bloomberg, Cuomo, and Hickenlooper think that their latest schemes for "public safety" will do good things because government is good - and they think they are doing things in the name of the same. Only they don't realize that in the real world, their efforts will not work at best and will be twisted into a scheme of greater control over basic liberties at worst.

    It is incredibly dangerous to think that government is benevolent - "that the atrocities that happen elsewhere cannot happen here." Liberals are blind to this fact. Believing government is inherently good will always lead to a condition where government acts to gain greater control - and usurp the liberties of those they govern.

    Liberals believe their intentions are good - and they may very well be - but are blind to the inherent nature of government.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Liberals are not blind to the inherent nature of government, they count of the inherent nature of government to advance their agenda. Liberals use the power of government to restrict liberties, that is their intention.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  20. #20
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Liberal AKA progressives, what do they want?

    They want your paycheck without having to work for it.
    They (the average peons) want the government to be their mommies, daddies, preachers, and care takers.
    They (the ones pulling the strings) want total control of your life.
    They want to make you a permanent victim.
    They want their children to live not knowing what a spanking is.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Liberals/Progressives could not survive without conservatives to fuel their expenditures. That is they neither manufacture nor grow anything (except government) substantive.
    On the other hand, the conservative, who produce the majority of food and products, can survive quite well without the Liberals/Progressives.
    What are you talking about? Have you ever heard of Farm Subsidies? Get a freaking clue. Those subsidies come from Liberal companies like Microsoft, Starbucks, etc.

    You have to be joking around...it is April Fools today.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  22. #22
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Liberals are not blind to the inherent nature of government, they count of the inherent nature of government to advance their agenda. Liberals use the power of government to restrict liberties, that is their intention.
    LOL, you crack me up. Name one politician--they span all political ideologies--that isn't out to use the Government to advance their agenda. Please, give us one example.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    LOL, you crack me up. Name one politician--they span all political ideologies--that isn't out to use the Government to advance their agenda. Please, give us one example.
    Rand Paul and Ted Cruze (splell check) just to name a couple. Oh and Barry, LOL!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wethepeople View Post
    Rand Paul and Ted Cruze (splell check) just to name a couple. Oh and Barry, LOL!
    Wrong! They have both run for Government positions, are elected, and are using the Government to advance their agenda. Nice try though. Anyone else you have in mind?

    I love the Googler...Rand Paul, just one of his agendas:
    Last week, Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) introduced “The Life at Conception Act,” a personhood measure that would outlaw abortions by declaring that “human life begins at the moment of conception, and therefore is entitled to legal protection from that point forward.” “The right to life is guaranteed to all Americans in the Declaration of Independence and ensuring this is upheld is the Constitutional duty of all Members of Congress,” Paul said in a statement. Anti-abortion activists have tried to advance similar measures across the nation. ... http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013...nda/?mobile=nc
    That's funny, Mr. Paul...according to Wethepeople, you don't have an agenda that requires you to utilize an arm of the Government.

    Let me guess, Mr. Paul, you're against Government only when it conflicts with your agenda.

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    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 04-01-2013 at 09:56 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    What are you talking about? Have you ever heard of Farm Subsidies? Get a freaking clue. Those subsidies come from Liberal companies like Microsoft, Starbucks, etc.

    You have to be joking around...it is April Fools today.
    Farm subsidies are wrong. And it's not just the large corporations that pay for them we all do. Subsidizing=keeping prices high, who pays for that? It hurts the poorer the hardest, increasing the number who can't afford food so the governments answer is hand out more EBT.

    Subsidizing also raises food prices because it allows inefficient bad farmers to continue farming, keeping the prices high.

    The government creates more problems than it solves.....the best answer is the free market.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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