carracer
Regular Member
In my advanced class we were taught: "everybody gets one before anyone gets two" for multiple assailant situations. Not saying if this is right or wrong. Just what we were taught.
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self defense in a mob situation?
- Thread starter skidmark
- Start date
eye95
Well-known member
My theory would be that the most imminent threat gets shot repeatedly until he is no longer an imminent mortal threat or no longer the most imminent mortal threat. I would then move on to the new most imminent mortal threat.
I suspect that once the not-as-imminent mortal threats see what is happening to the most imminent mortal threats, they will start choosing not to be the most imminent mortal threat.
My hope is that they figure out that the guy in front gets shot and start scrambling not to be in front. Kinda like "I don't have to outrun the lion. I only have to outrun you."
I suspect that once the not-as-imminent mortal threats see what is happening to the most imminent mortal threats, they will start choosing not to be the most imminent mortal threat.
My hope is that they figure out that the guy in front gets shot and start scrambling not to be in front. Kinda like "I don't have to outrun the lion. I only have to outrun you."
A firm believer that thugs, like ninjas, wait patiently to take their turn.
For my money, unless they are separated by at least 100 yards, they are all equally simultaneous imminent threats. (100 yard dash takes how long?)
Bunch up together? Good manners says everybody gets some before anybody gets seconds. Also keeps you from running out of some to give to BGs #2, #3, because you shot BG #1 to the ground.
I blame Gaston Glock and all the other manufacturers of firearms that use magazines with capacities above 7 for this dangerous behavior. And that includes John Moses Browning (PBUH) who at least realized that the High Power, using 9mm, needed twice as many + 3 as a handgun chambered in .45acp.:uhoh:
Of course, YMMV.
stay safe.
eye95
Well-known member
100 yard dash takes 10 seconds for world-class sprinters, properly outfitted and not carrying weapons.
If one had that much time (and the capability to be selective at targets 100 yards away), he would have lots of time to drop one, select another, drop him, select another, drop him, select another drop him. That likely would not be necessary. Drop the first one, and just the sound of the shot would give several pause. Dropping the second would stop almost all, probably all. Any fools still going would be so few as to provide clear target selection. By the third, there would be a race for last place. A race for last place in an approaching mob is called a full retreat.
So, realistically, I don't want a mob within about 3 or 4 seconds of me. Considering that they are not world-class sprinters, are not appropriately clad, are cowards individually, are carrying something, may be moving deliberately, but are not sprinting, I calculate that that is about 25 feet. (Yeah, I know. Folks can close 25 feet in a lot less than 3-4 seconds. My point about the individual cowardice of mob members is that they are slowed by their need to remain in a mob.) Anyway, if I've let a mob get within 25 feet of me, I have already made a mistake.
If a mob is moving deliberately toward me, with apparent evil intent, I am going to assume a defensive posture at 25 yards, and will fire within a second or two after that, having selected the likely only member with individual courage, the one on point.
Remember, I don't have to defeat the mob. I need only motivate that herd in a different direction long enough for me to leave. A person from whom no bullets are emanating will be a herd magnet.
Mobs are not like you see them on TV. The do not move with unswerving purpose in a coordinated way. Their courage only comes from the mistaken belief that they cannot be singled out for action and that, as long as the mob survives, they do. Their motion is dictated by the motion of those around them. Break that notion and that motion, and the courage goes away. The purpose swerves. The mob swerves.
In the LA riots, the shop owner who defended his store from rioters needed only motivate the mob to swerve to an undefended store to save his.
I guess that means that folks who choose to go about unarmed and defenseless do, in fact, serve a defensive purpose. They help us who are armed by providing a softer target, an alternative that the BGs would rather attack. Thank God for those particular hoplophobes. I have no qualms about using them in this way to defend me and mine.
Again, my goal is not to win a battle with the mob, just to motivate them elsewhere while I move to a safer location. Like running away from a lion, I don't have to outrun him. I just have to outrun you. While he is lunching on you, I can calmly proceed to safety.
If one had that much time (and the capability to be selective at targets 100 yards away), he would have lots of time to drop one, select another, drop him, select another, drop him, select another drop him. That likely would not be necessary. Drop the first one, and just the sound of the shot would give several pause. Dropping the second would stop almost all, probably all. Any fools still going would be so few as to provide clear target selection. By the third, there would be a race for last place. A race for last place in an approaching mob is called a full retreat.
So, realistically, I don't want a mob within about 3 or 4 seconds of me. Considering that they are not world-class sprinters, are not appropriately clad, are cowards individually, are carrying something, may be moving deliberately, but are not sprinting, I calculate that that is about 25 feet. (Yeah, I know. Folks can close 25 feet in a lot less than 3-4 seconds. My point about the individual cowardice of mob members is that they are slowed by their need to remain in a mob.) Anyway, if I've let a mob get within 25 feet of me, I have already made a mistake.
If a mob is moving deliberately toward me, with apparent evil intent, I am going to assume a defensive posture at 25 yards, and will fire within a second or two after that, having selected the likely only member with individual courage, the one on point.
Remember, I don't have to defeat the mob. I need only motivate that herd in a different direction long enough for me to leave. A person from whom no bullets are emanating will be a herd magnet.
Mobs are not like you see them on TV. The do not move with unswerving purpose in a coordinated way. Their courage only comes from the mistaken belief that they cannot be singled out for action and that, as long as the mob survives, they do. Their motion is dictated by the motion of those around them. Break that notion and that motion, and the courage goes away. The purpose swerves. The mob swerves.
In the LA riots, the shop owner who defended his store from rioters needed only motivate the mob to swerve to an undefended store to save his.
I guess that means that folks who choose to go about unarmed and defenseless do, in fact, serve a defensive purpose. They help us who are armed by providing a softer target, an alternative that the BGs would rather attack. Thank God for those particular hoplophobes. I have no qualms about using them in this way to defend me and mine.
Again, my goal is not to win a battle with the mob, just to motivate them elsewhere while I move to a safer location. Like running away from a lion, I don't have to outrun him. I just have to outrun you. While he is lunching on you, I can calmly proceed to safety.
Firearms Iinstuctor
Regular Member
eye95
Well-known member
Greenvilles are almost as ubiquitous as Springfields, so I was about to ask you which Greenfield this was. I read the comments, and one of them mentioned "SC," so I assume that this is Greenville, SC.
Most of the comments were about the degree to which the media tried not to identify a certain characteristic of the members of the mob. Jokes abounded blaming the Amish and the Swedes. Funny stuff.
What if the restaurant owner had a gun? I don't know about SC law, but after the way they behaved on the patio, had any come back inside, a reasonable person may have believed that he was in mortal danger. I think a "stopped" teen or two would demotivate these mobs in the future. They do what they do because they believe that, as part of a mob, they are protected from the consequences of their actions. We need to dispel this notion. I recommend lawfully carried, deployed, and implemented firearms.
Most of the comments were about the degree to which the media tried not to identify a certain characteristic of the members of the mob. Jokes abounded blaming the Amish and the Swedes. Funny stuff.
What if the restaurant owner had a gun? I don't know about SC law, but after the way they behaved on the patio, had any come back inside, a reasonable person may have believed that he was in mortal danger. I think a "stopped" teen or two would demotivate these mobs in the future. They do what they do because they believe that, as part of a mob, they are protected from the consequences of their actions. We need to dispel this notion. I recommend lawfully carried, deployed, and implemented firearms.
Red Dawg
Regular Member
Well, great another group of people being stupid. Please, please, don't even allude, pretend that you are going to pull and shoot people because they are obnoxious and rude, and have no manners. While what they did is against the law, and pisses you off, people please don't be interweb tough guys and say you'd shoot them. If being an arse was grounds for being killed, we'd have a lonely planet.
The OP wanted thought as to a genuine, no BS threat to life and limb by a group of thugs. If I can avoid them at all, I will. When it comes to taking a life, I'd rather be scared and move away before I absolutley have to take last resort action. Conflict avoidance is a great offensive tool for a good defense..
eye95
Well-known member
Mobs are dangerous and unpredictable. They can turn violent without notice. If they reenter the restaurant from the patio, a reasonable person could fear for life and limb.
This is why many States have changed their laws back to the erstwhile common law concept of the Castle Doctrine. Illegal entry is, in and of itself, good reason to fear for one's safety. Make no mistake about it, is State law allowed, if a mob entered my place of business after having demonstrated a willful lack of regard for the rights of others, I would not wait to find out for 100% certain that they meant me bodily harm. I would, again, if the law allowed, assume that they meant me and mine harm, and exercise lawful self-defense.
This is not Internet puffery. If the law allowed, I'd shoot. Period. Not because they were rude, but because they ARE dangerous.
This is why many States have changed their laws back to the erstwhile common law concept of the Castle Doctrine. Illegal entry is, in and of itself, good reason to fear for one's safety. Make no mistake about it, is State law allowed, if a mob entered my place of business after having demonstrated a willful lack of regard for the rights of others, I would not wait to find out for 100% certain that they meant me bodily harm. I would, again, if the law allowed, assume that they meant me and mine harm, and exercise lawful self-defense.
This is not Internet puffery. If the law allowed, I'd shoot. Period. Not because they were rude, but because they ARE dangerous.
carolina guy
Regular Member
Or better...don't live in a place like Chicago.
carolina guy
Regular Member
Got any cites for this??
carolina guy
Regular Member
The loudest and most annoying in the crowd gets it first...
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
For me and many disabled a mob attack is a deadly threat. I don't have to advertise my disabilities, it is just their bad luck if they encounter an armed disabled citizen.
DamonK
Regular Member
Or suppose you have young children with you. When I'm on my own I'm pretty flexible. When I have my little (3.5 years old) girl with me, I'll do anything I deem nessicary to keep her safe. As far as I'm concerned, a dumbass's life is not worth a scratch on her perfect little head.
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carolina guy
Regular Member
OldCurlyWolf
Regular Member
#1. Most of us are fairly bright enough to know where such mobs are likely. (Not to mention the places where self defense is "illegal.")
#2. Most of us are, therefore, smart enough to know it's not likely a good place to go and will stay away.
#3. If, for some unavoidable reason, one were to find themselves confronted with a dangerous situation like this, I'd think situational awareness would allow us to notice problems from the very start and make tracks to leave or find cover.
#4. If one could not leave, and a potentially lethal attack began (remember, you don't have any obligation to read their minds), one would have to take whatever steps were necessary to stop as many of the attackers as possible. Unless there were hundreds of them, whipped to an insane rage, sight of the first few to fall would probably end the encounter.
Ultimately, there are no guarantees. We just do the best we can with what we have to work with.
The best gunfight is the one that never happened... so just don't go there. Anyway, that's my plan.
Those last two really work. I have been "carrying" in one form or another for 35 years. So far, so good.
I am also an adherent to the basic rule of protecting yourself and family -- "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"
eye95
Well-known member
He is probably not the one in front and will also be the first to the rear. However, a stray round in his retreating rear would be poetic.
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<o>
davidmcbeth
Banned
North shore socialites ... I found it a little bit funny ...
Now it was the first warm day .. so you know that in Chgo murders would be up to about 10-20...
One time when I was entertaining some out of town business guests and we were on walbash ... they pointed out a kid running on the sidewalk ... I said "keep on watching, a cop will be right behind him....2 sec later there's the cop".
"There's a Harold's Chicken sign! Roll up with windows kids!"
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Firearms Iinstuctor
Regular Member
SouthernBoy
Regular Member
While I don't have a disability to the extent that I am confined to a wheelchair or walker (though there are times when I could use one of those), I do have medical ailments that are serious enough to put me at a distinct disadvantage against even one nasty kid who wants to play knockout games with me. I have osteoarthritis in both knees, though thank God I had a total knee replacement of my right knee six months ago. I also have LSS (Lumbar Spinal Stenosis) which not only further impairs my ability to escape or fight, but makes it pretty easy to knock me to the ground and kick the crap out of me.
So like you, pretty much any attack is far more dangerous to me than to other who are in normal shape. I have little choice but to resort to my sidearm should such an attack occur.