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Thread: Breach of Peace/ Disorderly

  1. #1
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    Breach of Peace/ Disorderly

    Just wondering.

    Say I were to strap on my handgun, throw a rifle over my shoulder, and hold a political sign on a public sidewalk.

    Someone calls the popo because they get freaked out.

    Cops show up and tell me to leave. I say no. They slap me with disorderly and breach of peace.

    Or say they ask for ID. I refuse. They slap me with Obstruction.

    Just a hypothetical, but I think about it all the time. I mean, what is stopping them from doing that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CE310QT View Post
    Just wondering.

    Say I were to strap on my handgun, throw a rifle over my shoulder, and hold a political sign on a public sidewalk.

    Someone calls the popo because they get freaked out.

    Cops show up and tell me to leave. I say no. They slap me with disorderly and breach of peace.

    Or say they ask for ID. I refuse. They slap me with Obstruction.

    Just a hypothetical, but I think about it all the time. I mean, what is stopping them from doing that?
    First, cops can do pretty much anything they want; it may not hold up in court, but that comes later, and assumes the cop tells the lily-white truth in court. All you can really do safely during a police encounter is verbally invoke your rights.

    Second, there is a big problem for detainees when it comes to things like identifying oneself. It has to do with cops and something called RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion)--the OCer has almost no way to know for sure whether the cop does or does not have genuine RAS that will stand up in court as legal justification to temporarily seize him. What the OCer is actually doing may matter less than what the cop is told by the dispatcher when relaying/distorting/summarizing the 911 call. See the link below for more information on this.

    Also, Nevada helped get stop-and-identify laws cemented in this country. There is a court case called Hiibel vs 6th Judicial District Court that basically says stop-and-identify statutes like Nevada's are constitutional if they meet certain criteria. See the other link below.


    How do you know whether the cop has genuine RAS: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...e-Cop-has-RAS&

    Hiibel (scroll down the page): http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ources-Here!!&
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Old quote...

    Citizen is corret on what he said.. so in the Reader's Digest Condensed Version....

    You may beat the rap....

    But you rarely beat the ride...


    So basically... you may beat the charges in a court of law...

    But you rarely beat the ride to the police station...

  4. #4
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    On the other hand, 'taking the ride' can sometimes be rather lucrative.
    I made about 6-grand one month because a security guard called the cops to report I was walking in a public park with a firearm. And that was just to drop the security guard from the lawsuit.

    Nevada does not have a "Disorderly Conduct" code section as far as I can tell.

    203.010 - Breach of peace.
    203.010 Breach of peace.
    Every person who shall maliciously and willfully disturb the peace or quiet of any neighborhood or person or family by loud or unusual noises, or by tumultuous and offensive conduct, threatening, traducing, quarreling, challenging to fight, or fighting, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

    NRS 199.280 Resisting public officer.
    A person who, in any case or under any circumstances not otherwise specially provided for, willfully resists, delays or obstructs a public officer in discharging or attempting to discharge any legal duty of his or her office shall be punished:

    1. Where a firearm is used in the course of such resistance, obstruction or delay, or the person intentionally removes, takes or attempts to remove or take a firearm from the person of, or the immediate presence of, the public officer in the course of such resistance, obstruction or delay, for a category C felony as provided in NRS 193.130.

    2. Where a dangerous weapon, other than a firearm, is used in the course of such resistance, obstruction or delay, or the person intentionally removes, takes or attempts to remove or take a weapon, other than a firearm, from the person of, or the immediate presence of, the public officer in the course of such resistance, obstruction or delay, for a category D felony as provided in NRS 193.130.

    3. Where no dangerous weapon is used in the course of such resistance, obstruction or delay, for a misdemeanor.



    Note that obstruction requires a deliberate, physical act. If you are demonstrating for World Peas and simply lay on the ground, limply when the officers arrest you are not 'resisting.'
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 04-02-2013 at 03:09 PM.

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    I guess that depends on your local political climate.

    Here in Arizona it's fine.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/...protest.rifle/

    Phoenix police said authorities monitored about a dozen people carrying weapons while peacefully demonstrating.

    "It was a group interested in exercising the right to bear arms," police spokesman Sgt. Andy Hill said.
    "Public opinion and votes have nothing to do with this. The challenge of the Court is not what they're going to do with votes. The challenge-- of the Court is are they going to protect people's rights." - Al Sharpton


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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    I guess that depends on your local political climate.
    Here in Arizona it's fine.
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/...protest.rifle/

    No arrests made at Georgia's capitol building, either.

  7. #7
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    If you're going to carry for political purposes I suggest you;

    1) have others with you.
    2) Maybe alert LE to your plans so you're not shot on site.

    ETA or sight. Both are applicable.
    Last edited by sharkey; 04-02-2013 at 05:22 PM.
    "Public opinion and votes have nothing to do with this. The challenge of the Court is not what they're going to do with votes. The challenge-- of the Court is are they going to protect people's rights." - Al Sharpton


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    Thanks all.

    I have asked many attorneys the same question. I have several in my family, and 3 of my professors. They all said pretty much the same thing:

    There is no law against it, therefore it is absolutely (not just vaguely/tacitly) legal. However, popo does whatever he wants. They suggested having a sign, because that would ELIMINATE almost completely any Disorderly/Breach of Peace charges on a non-violent 1st Amendment basis. *cite tons of case names they told me about*

    I was hoping someone had some experience doing it. I carried a rifle to a rally in front of the courthouse, but had a rather unpleasant experience with DHS...and it has shaken my courage when it comes to Open Carry.

    Anyone else had a bad experience?

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    I've participated in two separate OC trash cleanups, not sure if you'd consider that a rally. Up to 6 of us wandering around downtown Reno collecting trash with no problems.

    On 2/23 I participated at the "Day of Resistance" that went on around the country with an AR strapped across my back. I was one of at least 20 rifle carriers, countless handgun carriers amongst 400ish citizens there to hear our Nevada Legislators discuss upcoming laws with a few other guest speakers. Cops drove by plenty, nothing happened.


    As for doing it on your own, you're not breaking any law. You have the right to stand and hold that sign as much as an unarmed guy. That said, take a friend with a camera to document your support for the cause or whatever. Helps keep everybody honest if something is disputed later. They can't lawfully order you to leave a public area you have a right to be at. They can't require ID from you unless they are detaining you under reasonable suspicion you have committed a crime (unless you're already doing something that requires a license, like driving. But no license required to stand on a sidewalk).

    Strange as it might sound, go check out some of the OC police encounters on YouTube. Hearing guys tell police "No thank you" and being allowed to go about their business might help you gain some confidence.

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    Here is the "catch all" they are likely to use.

    NRS 197.190 Obstructing public officer. Every person who, after due notice, shall refuse or neglect to make or furnish any statement, report or information lawfully required of the person by any public officer, or who, in such statement, report or information shall make any willfully untrue, misleading or exaggerated statement, or who shall willfully hinder, delay or obstruct any public officer in the discharge of official powers or duties, shall, where no other provision of law applies, be guilty of a misdemeanor.

    [1911 C&P § 540; RL § 6805; NCL § 10486]
    I know about that from experience, What are you protesting? Open Carry is legal, so it seems redundant to protest something you can do. I am not being "smart" I realize the climate is not good for the open carry of rifles, If that is your goal, it may take some work, normalizing pistol open carry and when it becomes quite normal, start off with your AK and when the cop asks you about it tell him you would rather carry your pistol because it is lighter, but it is at the gunsmith getting work done... It is easier to make them pay, if they initiate the negativity, also with a scenario like that if you say you will go comply, you probably wont go to jail and you can spend that time beating his supervisors up!

  11. #11
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    Not exactly protesting. More of warning. Warning against gun control. Warning against becoming a state where the government and its agents have all power: think Chechnyan Russia, think Zimbabwe, Darfur, Rwanda, etc.

    Interestingly Rwanda had been championed by the UN as a haven from "the plague of small arms" in 1991. 1994...we know what happened

  12. #12
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    Here is the "catch all" they are likely to use.
    NRS 197.190 Obstructing public officer.
    I know about that from experience, What are you protesting? Open Carry is legal, so it seems redundant to protest something you can do. I am not being "smart" I realize the climate is not good for the open carry of rifles, If that is your goal, it may take some work, normalizing pistol open carry and when it becomes quite normal, start off with your AK and when the cop asks you about it tell him you would rather carry your pistol because it is lighter, but it is at the gunsmith getting work done... It is easier to make them pay, if they initiate the negativity, also with a scenario like that if you say you will go comply, you probably wont go to jail and you can spend that time beating his supervisors up!
    Hm... and what information are you required by law to provide to an officer? If he asks you, "Did you just rob that bank?" are you required to confess if you did indeed rob it? Give them a name, give them an address or birth date if required, do NOT provide your papers (leave them in your car if it's allowed.) The officer is conducting either having a consensual conversation that you may freely decline, or he's conducting an investigation into suspected criminal conduct. I know I'm not going to say Anything more than "Name, Rank, and Serial Number" to someone who's looking to put me in jail. As the warning goes "Anything you say can be used against you in a court of law", notice that it doesn't mention anything you say being used for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Hm... and what information are you required by law to provide to an officer? If he asks you, "Did you just rob that bank?" are you required to confess if you did indeed rob it? Give them a name, give them an address or birth date if required, do NOT provide your papers (leave them in your car if it's allowed.) The officer is conducting either having a consensual conversation that you may freely decline, or he's conducting an investigation into suspected criminal conduct. I know I'm not going to say Anything more than "Name, Rank, and Serial Number" to someone who's looking to put me in jail. As the warning goes "Anything you say can be used against you in a court of law", notice that it doesn't mention anything you say being used for you.
    +1

    SCOTUS addressed all this in Hiibel vs 6th Judicial Court. Somebody needs to read that opinion, linked in my post above.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    What would your goal be in this endeavor? You seem to want to provoke a confrontation to a group you already hold in disdain. Again, what is the purpose of this exercise?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    What would your goal be in this endeavor? You seem to want to provoke a confrontation to a group you already hold in disdain. Again, what is the purpose of this exercise?
    I'm not sure I understand your question. His "goal" and "purpose" is to carry legally and peacefully while going about his business exercising his 1st amendment rights.

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