Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: Liberty U promotes LIBERTY (uh ... for 'permitted' people only)

  1. #1
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Liberty U promotes LIBERTY (uh ... for 'permitted' people only)

    Liberty for some:

    LU changes concealed weapons rules for permitted people
    Liberty University students, visitors, faculty and staff with concealed-carry permits can now bring weapons into all Liberty University facilities — from philosophy class to Williams Stadium — except for dormitories.

    The policy change went into effect March 22, following a unanimous vote by the Liberty University Board of Trustees. Previously, guns were allowed on campus but not inside buildings.“I think it’s good that Liberty is a little more open than some schools,and I think it’ll continue to create a higher level of security on campus than what was found at Virginia Tech” during the time of the fatal shootings in 2007, Liberty University Chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. said Tuesday.
    I guess OC would be construed as "a lot more open" huh?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Amended 'Policy' explains open carry

    From the friendly neighborhood LUPD:

    Firearms on Campus
    See the PDF:
    Section 3. PERSONS ELIGIBLE FOR AUTHORIZATION TO CARRY WEAPON

    ...

    D. Students of Liberty University who are not also employees of Liberty University, who hold a valid concealed weapons permit recognized by the Commonwealth of Virginia, and who are approved by LUPD to carry a concealed weapon, may possess and carry such concealed weapon on University property and all University facilities except residence halls, and may store the approved weapon in a secured container or compartment in their vehicle while on University property. Except as permitted in Section 3 C, no weapons may be stored in residence halls. The approved weapon shall never be openly carried except while necessary for its lawful use.
    What does that [except while necessary for its lawful use] mean?

  3. #3
    Regular Member Numenor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    From the friendly neighborhood LUPD:

    Firearms on Campus
    See the PDF:


    What does that [except while necessary for its lawful use] mean?
    IE: Except when you need to use the firearm in defense of yourself or others.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    From the friendly neighborhood LUPD:

    Firearms on Campus
    See the PDF:


    What does that [except while necessary for its lawful use] mean?
    (chuckle) Well, I think the Fedcoats have said that mere possession of a firearm while involved in a drug offense consitutes a "use"; so, carrying it must be a use, as opposed to shooting it or dry-fire practicing with it.



    This is a step in the right direction. I wouldn't beat them up too much over the refusal to allow OC. At least they knew OC existed!! All our guys who carry in the commercial district near LU must have been noticed.
    Last edited by Citizen; 04-03-2013 at 06:23 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burke/Blacksburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    998
    I know that this is OCDO, and I'm not in favor of being forced to CC just to keep someone from possibly wetting their pants, but can we cut Liberty a little slack here? Seriously! This policy puts them head an shoulders above probably 99% of colleges and universities in the country when it come to respecting individuals' rights to self-defense. It's a huge step in the right direction, and should be applauded.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,620
    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    I know that this is OCDO, and I'm not in favor of being forced to CC just to keep someone from possibly wetting their pants, but can we cut Liberty a little slack here? Seriously! This policy puts them head an shoulders above probably 99% of colleges and universities in the country when it come to respecting individuals' rights to self-defense. It's a huge step in the right direction, and should be applauded.
    Agree that it is a huge positive step forward. As much as I believe in OC, I would rather that they get the right to CC in dormatory facilities next.

    Those that demand all or nothing should be careful for what they ask and how the ask............they just might get it............nothing!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Virginia, Hampton Roads, NC 9 miles away
    Posts
    1,317

    Now you can carry a gun pretty much anywhere at Liberty University (OC related)

    Now you can carry a gun pretty much anywhere at Liberty University

    http://now.msn.com/liberty-universit...pons-on-campus 7 hrs ago



    Thanks to a unanimous vote by the Liberty University Board of Trustees, pretty much anybody can now carry a gun anywhere they want on the school's Lynchburg, Va., campus. Previously, guns were not allowed in school buildings, but now students, faculty and visitors with concealed weapon licenses will be saved the nuisance of stowing their weapons in their cars or secured containers before going inside. The only buildings that will continue to prohibit firearms are dormitories. (Sorry, gun-toting dorm dwellers. We suggest you find a good hiding spot for the old guy.) University Chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. reportedly has zero safety concerns about the new policy and believes the change will make the campus "safer than most."

    Now what about open carry? can we open carry?
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,620
    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Now what about open carry? can we open carry?
    Edited to correct - would not be the best idea.

    Now if they'd only post signs like this throughout the campus.
    I would of course prefer that the word "concealed" not be included.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-05-2013 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Edited to correct - from merged thread
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...people-only%29

    The answers to your questions are in that thread.

    TFred


    Mod. note:
    I merged the 2 threads - GS
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-05-2013 at 09:14 AM. Reason: Explaination

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chesterfield
    Posts
    340
    Liberty is a great school.....that said having lived in a LU dorm for one semester I think I would rather live off campus. On campus life is more expensive and more restrictive than off. It is a fabulous school however and the education is first rate. That is one huge step forward. Permitting open carry is the next step, but any step forward is better than none at all.

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    This is one of those situations where I have to bite my tongue. I've quietly said to college students for a couple of years that the ONLY chance they have of getting carry through was with a CHP. Then I have to keep reminding myself that I said it when things like this happen.

  12. #12
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Thumbs down Once Again, the Point Being Most Missed Here

    Is that "permitted" students accounts for ONLY upperclassmen. Since a person under 21 cannot obtain a permit to carry a concealed firearm in Virginia (or most other states of which I am immediately aware) then this rule excludes all 18 (freshmen), 19 (sophomore) and 20 (junior) year-old students. Only seniors would be "permitted" to carry, simply by application of state law.

    Is it a "good start"? Maybe, but what are the odds that you're going to have an armed senior attending a freshmen Lit lecture course? The only possibility might be student assistants or graduate students or the teacher.

    Still pretty slim protection, if you ask me.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  13. #13
    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Is that "permitted" students accounts for ONLY upperclassmen. Since a person under 21 cannot obtain a permit to carry a concealed firearm in Virginia (or most other states of which I am immediately aware) then this rule excludes all 18 (freshmen), 19 (sophomore) and 20 (junior) year-old students. Only seniors would be "permitted" to carry, simply by application of state law.

    Is it a "good start"? Maybe, but what are the odds that you're going to have an armed senior attending a freshmen Lit lecture course? The only possibility might be student assistants or graduate students or the teacher.

    Still pretty slim protection, if you ask me.
    On the bright side this is at worst equally as effective as the NRAs position of having a few armed guards stand by one door on one end of a campus.

    Additionally professors can carry as well.

    But good point.
    Last edited by richarcm; 04-05-2013 at 12:17 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,233
    What's the old saying? "don't look a gift horse in the mouth".

    OK, so you have to have a permit to carry at Liberty. When you compare their stance to that of VCU, ODU, VT and all the others that forbid carry of any kind by anyone studying or working at those institutions, in my opinion they've made a step in the right direction.

    I think the point being missed is the one Grapeshot & VApatriot brought up earlier in this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    I know that this is OCDO, and I'm not in favor of being forced to CC just to keep someone from possibly wetting their pants, but can we cut Liberty a little slack here? Seriously! This policy puts them head an shoulders above probably 99% of colleges and universities in the country when it come to respecting individuals' rights to self-defense. It's a huge step in the right direction, and should be applauded.
    Agree that it is a huge positive step forward. As much as I believe in OC, I would rather that they get the right to CC in dormatory facilities next.

    Those that demand all or nothing should be careful for what they ask and how the ask............they just might get it............nothing!
    an all or nothing approach will just get nothing, something is better than nothing, save the criticism for the institutions that REALLY deserve it

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,620
    Constitutional Carry would solve this problem to some extent as all those old enough to own a handgun could then carry CC or OC w/o a CHP.

    Then it becomes just a tiny step for LU to amend their rule/policy to allow all legal gun owners to carry for all legal purposes - hopefully also to include OC.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Is that "permitted" students accounts for ONLY upperclassmen. Since a person under 21 cannot obtain a permit to carry a concealed firearm in Virginia (or most other states of which I am immediately aware) then this rule excludes all 18 (freshmen), 19 (sophomore) and 20 (junior) year-old students. Only seniors would be "permitted" to carry, simply by application of state law.

    Is it a "good start"? Maybe, but what are the odds that you're going to have an armed senior attending a freshmen Lit lecture course? The only possibility might be student assistants or graduate students or the teacher.

    Still pretty slim protection, if you ask me.
    See, the age threshold is a very good argument to make.

    Perhaps Incrementalism shall apply at LU - and in the future, the liberty to carry for self-protection will become available to all students.

  17. #17
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,233

    damned if you do .. damned if you don't ...

    Taking a step back and looking at this the way Liberty might,

    If they're going to be chastized for taking a step in the right direction they might just start thinking 'why are we bothering?'. They don't make the rules about what age you must be to get a CHP, why not complain that anyone old enough to vote, or old enough to sign up to die in the service of their country should be entitled to a CHP?

    Why not boycott the GA because you have to have a CHP to carry there on Lobby Day?

    I just don't think this is a battle we should be having over P4P in this case, instead they should be supported by us all and held up as an example to the rest of the colleges of the path they should be taking.

    It's not a perfect situation but, given the recent climate since CT, can we really afford to divide ourselves on what is a positive step. What kind of field-day are the antis going to have if we can't present a united front of support for what Liberty are doing

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,620
    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    Taking a step back and looking at this the way Liberty might,

    If they're going to be chastized for taking a step in the right direction they might just start thinking 'why are we bothering?'. They don't make the rules about what age you must be to get a CHP, why not complain that anyone old enough to vote, or old enough to sign up to die in the service of their country should be entitled to a CHP?

    Why not boycott the GA because you have to have a CHP to carry there on Lobby Day?

    I just don't think this is a battle we should be having over P4P in this case, instead they should be supported by us all and held up as an example to the rest of the colleges of the path they should be taking.

    It's not a perfect situation but, given the recent climate since CT, can we really afford to divide ourselves on what is a positive step. What kind of field-day are the antis going to have if we can't present a united front of support for what Liberty are doing
    Indeed Liberty (gotta love that name) University is the chink in the armor of solidarity of Virginia colleges. We must stand beside them with arms locked in support and laud their actions. Best of all, it was a unanimous decision of their board - no dissenters.

    Gives one hope for academia in the Commonwealth.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    It's not a perfect situation but, given the recent climate since CT, can we really afford to divide ourselves on what is a positive step. What kind of field-day are the antis going to have if we can't present a united front of support for what Liberty are doing
    I actually agree with what your saying Scouser, otherwise I wouldn't bother telling them that they will have to use P4P to be able to carry.

    I don't agree that it's a positive step though. Reality stinks sometimes and this is not a step. It;s the end of the line and the policy won't progress, it will not change.

    The good in it is that even though we've traded away a right on that campus, the kids will be able to defend themselves. That's probably worth it but I don't think I'll celebrate it as a victory.

  20. #20
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,233
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I don't agree that it's a positive step though. Reality stinks sometimes and this is not a step. It;s the end of the line and the policy won't progress, it will not change.
    Liberty's policy may not change any further in the right direction, but (for example) Hampden Sydney might see that it didn't cause blood to be spilled all over campus and consider following suit, then Longwood and so on.

    It might be the final step at Liberty, but it could be the first step towards safer education in Virginia as a whole. There's a long way to go but, in the supposed words of Lao Tzu, that journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

  21. #21
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    mayberry, nc
    Posts
    2,258
    i think that if they don't see the evil gun then they can go on with their unicorns and rain bows and fra-da-la-la all over the place.

    oh well , at least that makes Liberty un. a non GFZ

    WYLDE, don't forget that more then half the freshmen are over 21
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    Liberty's policy may not change any further in the right direction, but (for example) Hampden Sydney might see that it didn't cause blood to be spilled all over campus and consider following suit, then Longwood and so on.

    It might be the final step at Liberty, but it could be the first step towards safer education in Virginia as a whole. There's a long way to go but, in the supposed words of Lao Tzu, that journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
    If Hampton Sydney were to follow suit, they would see Liberty's policy as a Benchmark, not a starting place, but the norm. This policy is Alpha and Omega.

    Shortly after the 911 attack George Bush got on TV, looked the American People in the face and said" you will have to give up some freedom to be safe".

    I looked George Bush in the face and said "F*** You!".

    It's good that the kids don't have to throw books anymore but we all gave up some freedom to make it happen!

    Today, it's too swampy to plant my sunflower field so I may make the trip into town. Inevitably, some fool will run up to me and say "I have a permit". I think in honor of Liberty lost...I'll say "F*** You!"
    Last edited by peter nap; 04-06-2013 at 06:04 AM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Today, it's too swampy to plant my sunflower field so I may make the trip into town. Inevitably, some fool will run up to me and say "I have a permit". I think in honor of Liberty lost...I'll say "F*** You!"
    Yeah, but are you going to "do so with a calm and controlled demeanor + ending the lesson with a smile and a "Have a nice day." "??

    I'm guessing not.

  24. #24
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,233
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    If Hampton Sydney were to follow suit, they would see Liberty's policy as a Benchmark, not a starting place, but the norm. This policy is Alpha and Omega.
    I understand your frustration peter, but when the options that are likely to be approved in the schools are either what Liberty has done or what VCU have, isn't Liberty a better benchmark for the rest to follow?

    Ideally, yes I'd love to see the schools adopt a personal method of choice carry policy but in the real world we live in at the moment that's unlikely to happen. This is about making our children safer and I'd rather my kid was at a school where there is the chance for staff and older students to fight back and defend themselves and others than for him to be at a place where he's told to hide in a locker and pray (but quietly because its a school and they're not supposed to pray).

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Suffolk Virginia
    Posts
    699

    Re: Liberty U promotes LIBERTY (uh ... for 'permitted' people only)

    It's a side, with a slightly forward step. Maybe if the cc ruling works out, maybe some one will be like, " why not Oc and just be done with it."

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •