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Thread: Not Showing ID=resisting. Lansing, MI

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Not Showing ID=resisting. Lansing, MI

    http://www.wilx.com/home/headlines/L...201558711.html

    "I just wanted some quiet time, and came out to sit in my car."
    He says he was sitting in his car in his driveway when a police officer walked up and demanded to see his I.D.
    "I pretty much ignored him and asked him if it was a slow crime day," Riddle said.
    Riddle refused to show his I.D. The officer eventually left, but that's not the end of story. 10 days later, Riddle received a warrant for his arrest. He's been charged with a misdemeanor of resisting an officer. From there, he pled not guilty, went to the pre-trial hearing this week and now he's waiting for a jury trial.
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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    So we need an ID to be on our own property now? USSR much?

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Assuming the warrant is for 750.479 Resisting or obstructing officer in discharge of duty; penalty; definitions.
    (1) A person shall not knowingly and willfully do any of the following:
    ...
    (b) Assault, batter, wound, obstruct, or endanger an officer enforcing an ordinance, law, rule, order, or resolution of the common council of a city board of trustees, the common council or village council of an incorporated village, or a township board of a township.

    I would not that all of the above require a conscious, deliberate effort on behalf of the offender. I'd also note 'performance of duty', should it be that there is no reasonable articulable suspicion of a specific crime then the stop was unconstitutional and therefore not in the 'performance of duty' for the officer.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    So...in MI a police officer can enter private property, approach a person doing nothing and demand ID? Why? If he suspected criminal activity and did nothing, the LEO needs to get a different career.

    I have done it before myself...we have 4 kids and sometimes the car is just quiet, especially if I have a business call to make.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    wow, i can't believe the city attorney let this leave his desk
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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Re: Not Showing ID=resisting. Lansing, MI

    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    wow, i can't believe the city attorney let this leave his desk
    The only way I could see it happening, assuming the attorney isn't in on the scheme, is if the officer flat out lied about what happened. This does beg the question of why it took ten days to issue a warrant if the suspect in question really did use violence or threaten violence against the officer (while the officer was committing his lawful duties) as outlined by the law he's been arrested for.

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    Just another law infringement officer in our police state.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Not Showing ID=resisting. Lansing, MI

    The KGB eerrr... LPD need to get a life. It sounds like to me this guys has "somehow" possibly unknown even to him - offended the senses of someone with juice in the LPD or city Gov. So he's getting a spanking via the abuse of the "legal" system. Serf's who defy the king's men - must be taught their place. This guy better pray he does not end up in front of judge rosie...
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 04-05-2013 at 06:29 PM.
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Not Showing ID=resisting. Lansing, MI

    City attn. are contracted law firms that work at the beck & call of police. If they don't they lose their contracts. When it comes down to $ vs. law - $$$ almost always wins.
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    If I was sitting in my driveway & an officer came up to mt car in my drive way,
    I would ask him what he needed, then inform him that he is on private property ,
    & that he was not called nor welcome, & to leave !

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    So, if the police did not know who he was, HOW DID THEY MAIL HIM THE CHARGING DOCS? If the police did know who he was, then NO NEED TO ID HIMSELF!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    So, if the police did not know who he was, HOW DID THEY MAIL HIM THE CHARGING DOCS? If the police did know who he was, then NO NEED TO ID HIMSELF!
    Probably ran his tags...
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    Probably ran his tags...
    Wouldn't be surprised.

    The wonders of the national ID standards with digital drivers licenses. Just run the plates for a name. Go to the drivers license database, type in the name, pull up the photo. If its the same guy, issue the citation. Of course, this raises the question as to whether there was really an obstruction since the cop was able to identify his victim on other channels.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised.

    The wonders of the national ID standards with digital drivers licenses. Just run the plates for a name. Go to the drivers license database, type in the name, pull up the photo. If its the same guy, issue the citation. Of course, this raises the question as to whether there was really an obstruction since the cop was able to identify his victim on other channels.
    Sounds like Riddle might have a good chance at some $$$ if the story is true and accurate!
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    That's why I filed my notice of trespass(es) with LEOs in my jurisidiction ... chk your state law to see about this ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    That's why I filed my notice of trespass(es) with LEOs in my jurisidiction ... chk your state law to see about this ...
    Yeah, yeah. We know all about your notice of trespass. And, your previous (three?) different reasons that were all "the reason" you got it.

    Why not just say, "Filing a notice of trespass with your local police would cut down on this sort of thing, or at least put you in a little bit stronger legal position"?

    If you just wrote that, and stopped telling readers to do dangerous stuff without telling them the dangers, your credibility would skyrocket.
    Last edited by Citizen; 04-05-2013 at 08:47 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    That's why I filed my notice of trespass(es) with LEOs in my jurisidiction ... chk your state law to see about this ...
    A fence with a locked gate across the driveway is more effective. Closest to our house someone can get without hopping the fence is about 30 feet.
    Last edited by carolina guy; 04-05-2013 at 09:11 PM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Not Showing ID=resisting. Lansing, MI

    Is anyone here privy to the conversation between this man and the officer? Although the scant facts presented in this report would indicate that this person's case is particularly strong in regards to a defense of the charges, oftentimes it is what is left out of the story that is most enlightening. I can think of a few ways the charges could be sustained... but until the evidence that the officer and attorney believe sustains such a charge is presented, I am afraid we really don't know what the outcome will be.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    i have a few questions;

    why was the police there in the first place?

    did they just see someone sitting in a car and wanted to know why?

    did they get a call from the house? a neighbor?

    what was the LEO's RAS?

    inquisitive minds want to know
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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Is anyone here privy to the conversation between this man and the officer? Although the scant facts presented in this report would indicate that this person's case is particularly strong in regards to a defense of the charges, oftentimes it is what is left out of the story that is most enlightening. I can think of a few ways the charges could be sustained... but until the evidence that the officer and attorney believe sustains such a charge is presented, I am afraid we really don't know what the outcome will be.
    Care to name one or two?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Not Showing ID=resisting. Lansing, MI

    1.Lying to the LEO.
    2. If the officer was called to investigate a crime and the person gave up his right to remain silent by answering the officers questions. If a person gives up his right to remain silent but yet refuses to ID himself when the questioning leads the officer to reasonably believe the person either commited a crime or was about to commit a crime. I, however, am not an attorney and this is just nonprofessional conjecture.

    My point is that we only have one side of the story...his. Then there is the fact that this person was successfully convicted of the same charge before... I wonder how this happened.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 04-06-2013 at 08:33 AM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  22. #22
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    1.Lying to the LEO.
    2. If the officer was called to investigate a crime and the person gave up his right to remain silent by answering the officers questions. If a person gives up his right to remain silent but yet refuses to ID himself when the questioning leads the officer to reasonably believe the person either commited a crime or was about to commit a crime would seem to fall under this law. I, however, am not an attorney and this is just nonprofessional conjecture.

    My point is that we only have one side of the story...his. Then there is the fact that this person was successfully convicted of the same charge before... I wonder how this happened.
    If I cared enough, I'd go pull the District Court record and find out the alleged facts.

    Fact of the matter is, I don't care that much

    Though I agree with your assessment about one side.
    Last edited by TheQ; 04-06-2013 at 02:11 AM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    A fence with a locked gate across the driveway is more effective. Closest to our house someone can get without hopping the fence is about 30 feet.
    Claymores even better ! The they really do hop. Good suggestion but costs more than the claymores.

  24. #24
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd
    If the officer was called to investigate a crime and the person gave up his right to remain silent by answering the officers questions. If a person gives up his right to remain silent but yet refuses to ID himself when the questioning leads the officer to reasonably believe the person either commited a crime or was about to commit a crime
    You can invoke your right to remain silent at any time, even if you've already answered some questions.
    Peacefully exercising civil rights is not RAS of a crime.

    In fact, across the puddle over here in WI it's case law:
    No law allows officers to arrest for obstruction on a person’s refusal to give his or her name. Mere silence is insufficient to constitute obstruction.
    Henes v. Morrissey (WI, 1995)

    There's even federal case law:
    "The Claim and exercise of a Constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
    Miller v. U.S.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised.

    The wonders of the national ID standards with digital drivers licenses. Just run the plates for a name. Go to the drivers license database, type in the name, pull up the photo. If its the same guy, issue the citation. Of course, this raises the question as to whether there was really an obstruction since the cop was able to identify his victim on other channels.
    Ah, but the officer could have done all that in 2 minutes from his MDT, instead of applying for a warrant and having it delivered 10 days later.

    No matter where or when he pulled the info, doing so would reveal the guy was on his own property, and there was no basis for charges.

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