CPL holders 'live in a dream world' - aka, why training is important.

marshaul said:

Of course. And if you want to carry to be cool, or for a "feeling" of safety, then that video might be of value.

But for those of us who are dedicated to and passionate about the pursuit, it's a joke.

In such a dumb "study", I might as well tell the gun carrier to hold the gun in his hand, and immediately shoot the first person coming through the door (knowing full well it will be the fake "bad guy"), and then just say, "oop, looky there, having a gun always saves the day. QED. Everyone go buy a gun."

In fact, we should get some OCers together and do that "study", for a laugh.

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We're on the same page.

My point was that, in addition to 'bad guys', these people who...

want to carry to be cool, or for a "feeling" of safety

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... are also a part of the equation. And potentially just as dangerous :-\

You're saying that to those of us dedicated and passionate about the pursuit, it's a joke. And you're right. And the reason is that we have taken it upon ourselves to properly educate and train ourselves. And I think more people should. ETA: and of the many people who find this site on the interwebz via the googles, I'm sure there are a few that fall into this category. Hopefully this conversation of ours will encourage them to go learn.

It's been about 40 years but I remember hearing about a teenager who shot a burglar with his dad's bow, he had zero training in using a bow for a burglar. He did know how to use one though, training is good, but it should be voluntary and not mandated just to put money in another person's pocket. That is why we have so much problems with our rights, they have been turned into privileges subject to the almighty dollar. And then people wonder why the government still continues to try strip us of rights in one form or another.

The firearms training industry has become a industry on making a buck, not actually furthering self defense.

WalkingWolf said:

It's been about 40 years but I remember hearing about a teenager who shot a burglar with his dad's bow, he had zero training in using a bow for a burglar. He did know how to use one though, training is good, but it should be voluntary and not mandated just to put money in another person's pocket. That is why we have so much problems with our rights, they have been turned into privileges subject to the almighty dollar. And then people wonder why the government still continues to try strip us of rights in one form or another.

The firearms training industry has become a industry on making a buck, not actually furthering self defense.

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+1

WalkingWolf said:

The firearms training industry has become a industry on making a buck, not actually furthering self defense.

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While I have high respect for any good gun trainer, I have a moral issue with the thorough unavailability of the right knowledge to those who can't afford to pay for it. You can't even find anyone providing thorough information on defensive gun use on youtube, at least not that I know of. You can patch together a pretty good idea with information available for free, but it's not easy, and there will still likely be a lot of holes in your skill set.

I do wish that knowledgeable shooters teaching others who lack shooting skill would be considered a community service type thing which should be done routinely. Instead, it's all about money, and quite often some very poor techniques being taught for that money.

Michigander said:

While I have high respect for any good gun trainer, I have a moral issue with the thorough unavailability of the right knowledge to those who can't afford to pay for it. You can't even find anyone providing thorough information on defensive gun use on youtube, at least not that I know of. You can patch together a pretty good idea with information available for free, but it's not easy, and there will still likely be a lot of holes in your skill set.

I do wish that knowledgeable shooters teaching others who lack shooting skill would be considered a community service type thing which should be done routinely. Instead, it's all about money, and quite often some very poor techniques being taught for that money.

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It is for these reasons that I am a firm beleiver that what we all pay for already should be made available to the general public for free. We pay for police academies across the country, correct? Why then can't we offer spots in these classes to the public? Police constantly say they want the public to know safe gun handling techniques, correct? I remember having a talk with a local police officer in MI whose department served my community & had just opened up a state of the art range. I floated the same idea buy him. His response it will never happen too much liability for department. As he is saying this I notice a group of civilians going into the range and ask who are they? "Oh they're a local gun club, it's ok - the cheif said so."

You gotta love that kind of logic... :what: We pick & choose who's life is worth more and offer them benefits others will never get.

Michigander said:

I do wish that knowledgeable shooters teaching others who lack shooting skill would be considered a community service type thing which should be done routinely. Instead, it's all about money, and quite often some very poor techniques being taught for that money.

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Become a trainer and offer low cost or free classes. I recently received my instructor cert. in the NRA Basic Pistol course and my plan is to teach it for cost of materials & supplies.

Bronson

Bronson said:

Become a trainer and offer low cost or free classes. I recently received my instructor cert. in the NRA Basic Pistol course and my plan is to teach it for cost of materials & supplies.

Bronson

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^^^ THIS! ++++++++++++++++++++ 1 TRILLION! :thumbup:

I remember when I took the training to get my CPL. Most places were charging $150.00 or more. Then I found a place that I believe charged $90.00. The major cost of the course was so they could pay the county assistant PA to teach the law part of it. For someone on my budget, $90.00 still was not cheap, but it sure beat what everyone else wanted. And I have to say, the Jackson County APA made the law part interesting. Over all, I liked the whole course. I didn't see any short cuts. It took 12 hours over 2 days for the class, but I thought it was worth the time.

As for liability issues at a police range, that's simple enough to fix. Have everyone who wants to use it, sign a waiver. But they still won't go for it. Most PD's idea of teaching safe handling to non-LEO types is to teach us to not carry, and always call them instead. In other words.....dial 911 and die.

This video is ancient and the issues with the test have been discussed to death repeatedly, including on these very forums... To the point that I read only the first two posts and already knew exactly what video it was. However it is good for it to come up occasionally so more people can see how idiotic the media and anti's really are.

As to the subject of training.... It is not necessary for it to be mandatory. Some states have no mandatory training for CPL's and yet none of those states have any more issues with licensee's misusing firearms than any other state that has training. The reason for this is simple and obvious if you know anything about human nature. The people who are going to do stupid stuff with their guns are not going to take away anything from mandatory training class, while those who are going to be smart with guns will ensure they are trained and competent without the need for the state to mandate such training.



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Bronson said:

Become a trainer and offer low cost or free classes. I recently received my instructor cert. in the NRA Basic Pistol course and my plan is to teach it for cost of materials & supplies.

Bronson

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I have been teaching people as a hobby the Matt Temkin point shooting lesson plan, with a few twists from what I learned from SI material and elsewhere. I use state land, and life sized dummies I hand make using old clothes and cardboard, as well as some other props.

The problem this year has been ammo availability, especially since I like to make heavy use of 22's. That and time and energy after working 62 hours a week.