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Thread: Disarmament Agitators and Indirect Action

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Disarmament Agitators and Indirect Action

    Mere opinion:

    I'm convinced from what I've seen recently that the people who want to disarm the public in order to make everyone defenseless have shifted their tactics somewhat and have become a good bit more aggressive. A civilized society assumes that political action will be taken in a public forum giving free rein to argument and discussion, but that when a decision is reached, we all shut up and play by the rules. The problem is that law-abiding and socially responsible people tend to all be on the gun-ownership for personal defense side of the debate.

    But activists, particularly in local governments, are engaging in indirect tactics. For example, all over Virginia, the number of gun-seizures in situations that would normally be simple traffic stops appears to have increased dramatically. People are being charged with bogus criminal offenses as a pretext for seizure of the guns, with the result that they have to pay a lawyer to get an acquittal ("punishment by attorney"). But even after the acquittal they won't give the guns back. I always ask for an order as part of the final disposition of the case, but most lawyers don't think of that. So getting the gun back requires further expensive legal proceedings. The cops know that it's cheaper just to buy a new gun (assuming the owner has money for either).

    I'm also convinced that this is a passive-aggressive way of getting back at gun owners for having 15.2-915 passed. There's an element of "You're not going to tell me what to do; if I can't do it openly, I'll use the back-door approach." I'm sure they believe they're doing the right thing in "getting guns off the street". I've got one case right now that illustrates the point: a guy was charged with carrying a concealed weapon which was, at the time, functionally inaccessible to him, and secured within a closed container in his vehicle. The cop had to put the small pickup truck's front seat back down and move the seat forward in order to extract the gun. No question in my mind he knew at the time that this was not probable cause for the charge. It was, in fact, robbery - the taking of personal property from another by threats, force, or intimidation. A felony; but who's going to charge and prosecute the cop for that?

    This course of conduct also constitutes a "policy", even if it's an informal policy and is illegal. Proving it is going to be hard, though.

    I've noticed that when I've got the VCDL magnet on a car, someone will scratch the car with a key or coin, or let the air out of the tire just below the magnet. The people we are dealing with are not law-abiding, socially-responsible people. They're emotionally driven bigots who are reacting out of blind and stupid fear, being manipulated by people who want to run the country unlawfully and who need to disarm the population in order to do so. They are unprincipled and will do anything to get their own way. I think they're much more dangerous than gun owners.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Mere opinion:

    The people we are dealing with are not law-abiding, socially-responsible people. They're emotionally driven bigots who are reacting out of blind and stupid fear, being manipulated by people who want to run the country unlawfully and who need to disarm the population in order to do so. They are unprincipled and will do anything to get their own way. I think they're much more dangerous than gun owners.
    Truer words have never been spoken. Thank you for taking the time and effort to state this so eloquently. This is the same reasoning by which I have often argued that a fraudulent vote is far more dangerous than a fraudulent gun owner, especially when Virginia Senate elections are being decided by double digits. But we're assured that "never" happens...

    We REALLY need to get BIG teeth into 15.2-915 like Florida has done with theirs.

    As the "good old boy" LEO network likes to brag: "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride..."

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I've argued about having recourse (Teeth) written into the laws, Grapeshot, you TFred and User have all said the same thing.
    This needs to be an election issue and I think I'm about to make it one.

    It's timely that Dan bring this up because I was talking to his Associate yesterday about the records retention act which is administered by The State Library...which has no enforcement power...just yesterday.

    I've been dealing with the Supreme Court all week over the misconduct of the Petersburg Clerk...because there are no sanctions spelled in the CHP Statute.

    There need to be both Civil and Criminal penalties spelled out for LEO and LEA's that play games.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Anybody heard any reports on how Florida is doing with their law now? I found a blog type page that appears to have been written right before the new law took effect, and which gives a good background, but haven't seen any reviews on the success or failure as a whole.

    TFred

    ETA: Ironically, in that post I linked, the author praises Virginia for our preemption law... I guess the localities are starting to figure out what they can get away with.
    Last edited by TFred; 04-05-2013 at 10:08 PM.

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    What's the process for getting a bill started and sponsored? How difficult would it be?

    I'd like to see all officer involved shootings sent to the Grand Jury instead of the boys club clearing one another when one behaves badly.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    What's the process for getting a bill started and sponsored? How difficult would it be?

    I'd like to see all officer involved shootings sent to the Grand Jury instead of the boys club clearing one another when one behaves badly.
    Talk to your Senator or Delegate. Good luck getting them to sponsor that bill but it is a good thought.

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    1+ for OP

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Discuss at the RPV Convention

    This seems a subject worthy of discussion at the RPV Convention.

    Do the nominees - whoever they are -- want our vote? Perhaps they had better listen.

  9. #9
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    I am rapidly coming to agree with the statement: "After the first felony, the rest are free."

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