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Thread: Latest man to die by Taser in Los Angeles

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Latest man to die by Taser in Los Angeles

    I found some revelations in this article.

    http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...les&id=9054887

    There is a police Taser shooting nearly everyday in Los Angeles, and they kill three people a year!
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Cops L-O-V-E these devices ... bzzz bzzz bzzz ... like an experiment ...

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    I have been saying for awhile that tazers are used far too often by police and THEY ARE LETHAL FORCE.

    All too often we see videos where two adult male police officers are detaining an elderly person who can barely walk and the police tazer them before even trying to handcuff them.
    Calm down, or I'm calling your probi!

    Yes, LEO's use the taze in situations they ought not.

    Tasers are not lethal force. LEO's use them every day, and apparently a few people die per year from it. How many die that are shot by LEO's? There you go. It's not lethal force when the force used only kill someone .0001% of the time.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    yeah i'm sure all the people who have died from them were going to die seconds later anyway.
    That's like arguing that carrots will kill you if you eat them, because a few people die a year from chocking on a carrot.

    Get out of here with that....

    I agree on one point: LEO's use tasers, it seems, in instances where they aren't necessary. Such as: Against grandma.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    They can be lethal force, there is no way in knowing the physiology of the person the cop uses them on.

    Seems to me they treat their tasers like cattle prods......and we are the cattle.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    They can be lethal force, there is no way in knowing the physiology of the person the cop uses them on.

    Seems to me they treat their tasers like cattle prods......and we are the cattle.
    Some of us are cattle...

    I was trying to find some information on how many people die from being clubbed by LEO's....can't seem to find anything. Or that die from being handcuffed.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 04-06-2013 at 11:19 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Some of us are cattle...

    I was trying to find some information on how many people die from being clubbed by LEO's....can't seem to find anything. Or that die from being handcuffed.

    Good luck. They are not that forthright with such info. The mere fact that so many die at their hands is troubling.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwie!!!

    My god Sara!!!


    Look at that 4999 posts ,,, quick make a new one ,, it is yours for the takining,,,, it ill a milstone,,,, wow!!!!

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    They can be lethal force, there is no way in knowing the physiology of the person the cop uses them on.

    Seems to me they treat their tasers like cattle prods......and we are the cattle.
    Of course considering prior to tasers the primary tool was a baton, I don't consider them deadly force. Every officer certified to use one has to tazed during training. And besides you can buy one if you were so inclined in most states.

    Do you believe that the majority of tazing incidents are unjustified under current law?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  10. #10
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    My god Sara!!!


    Look at that 4999 posts ,,, quick make a new one ,, it is yours for the takining,,,, it ill a milstone,,,, wow!!!!

    you be da man,,, well er da dyke, really I do love you, you be da well er sompit to me i like you you be OK wit me\
    your friend the defender
    I wasted my 5,000th post on Sudden...I love ya man!

    1245A, I love ya too! You OK by me!!

    I don't think anyone realizes how many arguments I've been in to get to 5,000 posts. I'm sure some people on here are eager for the next 5k LOL
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  11. #11
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Good luck. They are not that forthright with such info. The mere fact that so many die at their hands is troubling.
    It is troubling. What's more troubling is we don't force them to disclose that sort of information, and change the way they interact with the public in order to mitigate the number of deaths.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  12. #12
    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Calm down, or I'm calling your probi!

    Yes, LEO's use the taze in situations they ought not.

    Tasers are not lethal force. LEO's use them every day, and apparently a few people die per year from it. How many die that are shot by LEO's? There you go. It's not lethal force when the force used only kill someone .0001% of the time.
    Your statistics are off. According to the linked story:

    "Chief Beck says on average, LAPD will have at least one Taser use a day without any serious health issues. Out of those hundreds of cases, Chief Beck says LAPD sees about three Taser-related fatalities each year".

    So, used once per day by LAPD and 3 deaths per year = 0.8% probability of death.

    Anecdotally, there are about 50 taser deaths per year, in the US, at the hands of police:

    http://electronicvillage.blogspot.co...ed-states.html

    The problem is that no official national data is collected on deaths at the hands of the police; either shootings, tasers or by other means. Nor do we know how many times officers discharge a firearm or a taser. So, we do not know definitively what the death rate is for either means of force.

    Courts have generally held that tasers fall into non-lethal force; however, they can still constitute excessive force under the 4th Amdt.

    Bryan v McPherson US Court of Appeals 9th Circuit.
    http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...8/08-55622.pdf

    [4] We, along with our sister circuits, have held that tasersand stun guns fall into the category of non-lethal force.6 See,e.g., Lewis, 581 F.3d at 476; United States v. Fore, 507 F.3d412, 413 (6th Cir. 2007); San Jose Charter of Hells AngelsMotorcycle Club v. City of San Jose, 402 F.3d 962, 969 n.8(9th Cir. 2005).7 Non-lethal, however, is not synonymous withnon-excessive; all force—lethal and non-lethal—must be jus-tified by the need for the specific level of force employed.Graham, 490 U.S. at 395; see also Deorle, 272 F.3d at 1285(“Less than deadly force, like deadly force, may not be usedwithout sufficient reason; rather, it is subject to the Grahambalancing test.”). Nor is “non-lethal” a monolithic category offorce. A blast of pepper spray and blows from a baton are notnecessarily constitutionally equivalent levels of force simplybecause both are classified as non-lethal. Rather than relyingon broad characterizations, we must evaluate the nature of thespecific force employed in a specific factual situation. SeeChew, 27 F.3d at 1441 (stating that the Graham factors “arenot to be considered in a vacuum but only in relation to theamount of force used to effect a particular seizure.”).






    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    Your statistics are off. According to the linked story:

    "Chief Beck says on average, LAPD will have at least one Taser use a day without any serious health issues. Out of those hundreds of cases, Chief Beck says LAPD sees about three Taser-related fatalities each year".

    So, used once per day by LAPD and 3 deaths per year = 0.8% probability of death.

    Anecdotally, there are about 50 taser deaths per year, in the US, at the hands of police:

    http://electronicvillage.blogspot.co...ed-states.html


    There are 364 days in a year, which means there are at least 364 tasered civilians. Let me think about this, would I rather an LEO tase a person or shoot the person? Apparently, force has been deemed necessary--we aren't talking about excessive, yet.


    The problem is that no official national data is collected on deaths at the hands of the police; either shootings, tasers or by other means. Nor do we know how many times officers discharge a firearm or a taser. So, we do not know definitively what the death rate is for either means of force.

    Courts have generally held that tasers fall into non-lethal force; however, they can still constitute excessive force under the 4th Amdt.

    Bryan v McPherson US Court of Appeals 9th Circuit.
    http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...8/08-55622.pdf

    [4] We, along with our sister circuits, have held that tasersand stun guns fall into the category of non-lethal force.6 See,e.g., Lewis, 581 F.3d at 476; United States v. Fore, 507 F.3d412, 413 (6th Cir. 2007); San Jose Charter of Hells AngelsMotorcycle Club v. City of San Jose, 402 F.3d 962, 969 n.8(9th Cir. 2005).7 Non-lethal, however, is not synonymous withnon-excessive; all force—lethal and non-lethal—must be jus-tified by the need for the specific level of force employed.Graham, 490 U.S. at 395; see also Deorle, 272 F.3d at 1285(“Less than deadly force, like deadly force, may not be usedwithout sufficient reason; rather, it is subject to the Grahambalancing test.”). Nor is “non-lethal” a monolithic category offorce. A blast of pepper spray and blows from a baton are notnecessarily constitutionally equivalent levels of force simplybecause both are classified as non-lethal. Rather than relyingon broad characterizations, we must evaluate the nature of thespecific force employed in a specific factual situation. SeeChew, 27 F.3d at 1441 (stating that the Graham factors “arenot to be considered in a vacuum but only in relation to theamount of force used to effect a particular seizure.”).
    Agreed, taser use can be a Fourth Amendment issue, that is, if the force is actually excessive.




    [/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 04-06-2013 at 12:07 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    Your statistics are off. According to the linked story:

    "Chief Beck says on average, LAPD will have at least one Taser use a day without any serious health issues. Out of those hundreds of cases, Chief Beck says LAPD sees about three Taser-related fatalities each year".

    So, used once per day by LAPD and 3 deaths per year = 0.8% probability of death.

    Anecdotally, there are about 50 taser deaths per year, in the US, at the hands of police:

    http://electronicvillage.blogspot.co...ed-states.html

    The problem is that no official national data is collected on deaths at the hands of the police; either shootings, tasers or by other means. Nor do we know how many times officers discharge a firearm or a taser. So, we do not know definitively what the death rate is for either means of force.

    Courts have generally held that tasers fall into non-lethal force; however, they can still constitute excessive force under the 4th Amdt.

    Bryan v McPherson US Court of Appeals 9th Circuit.

    A department with 11000 officers on the payroll which means 3500 on duty at any one time, who work 12 hour shifts. In a city of 4000000 people and they have one taze a day? Something doesn't seem right there
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Snip

    Agreed, taser use can be a Fourth Amendment issue, that is, if the force is actually excessive.


    Taser International has confirmed that in over one-third of the cases in which police officers have discharged tasers, the reported level of resistance is “verbal non-compliance.” [Advanced Taser M26 Field Report Analysis, May 1, 2003 (compiling information from 2590 reports). ]

    The fact of the matter is that too many police departments still use tasers as a means of pain compliance; rather than as an appropriate alternative to more lethal means on the Use-of-force Continuum.


    Last edited by NavyMike; 04-06-2013 at 12:34 PM.
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    Taser International has confirmed that in over one-third of the cases in which police officers have discharged tasers, the reported level of resistance is “verbal non-compliance.” [Advanced Taser M26 Field Report Analysis, May 1, 2003 (compiling information from 2590 reports). ]

    The fact of the matter is that too many police departments still use tasers as a means of pain compliance; rather than as an appropriate alternative to more lethal means on the Use-of-force Continuum.


    Agreed.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Latest man to die by Taser in Los Angeles

    The issue is not the taser, it is whether or not the use of force was justified. If it was, there is a far less likelihood of death from a taser than from a firearm. Tasers produce the desired result with out the repeated applications of clubs and fists that provide the only other alternative.

    If force was justified, then the taser is the best option for applying that force.

    So the only question that really needs to be answered is, "Was force justified?" There is not a lot of information in the article, and I would want to learn a lot more before giving Regis my final answer, but my tentative answer is yes.


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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The issue is not the taser, it is whether or not the use of force was justified. If it was, there is a far less likelihood of death from a taser than from a firearm. Tasers produce the desired result with out the repeated applications of clubs and fists that provide the only other alternative.

    If force was justified, then the taser is the best option for applying that force.

    So the only question that really needs to be answered is, "Was force justified?" There is not a lot of information in the article, and I would want to learn a lot more before giving Regis my final answer, but my tentative answer is yes.


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    Whether the force is justified or not, it has no effect on whether a person is tased and dies from it.

    Agreed, if force is justified, a taser is the best option, that is, to more violent means, fists, clubs, guns.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I found some revelations in this article.

    http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...les&id=9054887

    There is a police Taser shooting nearly everyday in Los Angeles, and they kill three people a year!
    [giagantic-government-loving, hypocritcal "conservative" lemming nutjob]But the police are wonderful, selfless, heroic angels who protect us, and even though most unions are bad, fortunately these angels have a union to protect them from those evil liberty-loving people who believe in the rule of law and actually holding everyone accountable.[/giagantic-government-loving, hypocritcal "conservative" lemming nutjob]

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    [giagantic-government-loving, hypocritcal "conservative" lemming nutjob]But the police are wonderful, selfless, heroic angels who protect us, and even though most unions are bad, fortunately these angels have a union to protect them from those evil liberty-loving people who believe in the rule of law and actually holding everyone accountable.[/giagantic-government-loving, hypocritcal "conservative" lemming nutjob]
    I recommend first: Lay off the caffeine.

    Second, no person on here, or in the link, stating that so-called Liberty-loving People are Evil.

    Who the hell are you to dictate what Liberty is to any other person? Mind your own business!
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  21. #21
    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I recommend first: Lay off the caffeine.
    Stop making false accusations.

    Second, no person on here, or in the link, stating that so-called Liberty-loving People are Evil.
    Big government liberals (who generally love federal law enforcement, yet, to their credit, often have some dislike for local law enforcement) and big government "conservatives" (who generally love local law enforcement, yet, to their credit, often have some dislike for federal law enforcement) have a burning hatred for small government, liberty-loving people (who want law enforcement massively reduced and kept in severe check).

    Who the hell are you to dictate what Liberty is to any other person? Mind your own business!
    Who are you to tell me that I am dictating what liberty is to others when I demand that the government leave me alone?

  22. #22
    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I recommend first: Lay off the caffeine.

    Second, no person on here, or in the link, stating that so-called Liberty-loving People are Evil.

    Who the hell are you to dictate what Liberty is to any other person? Mind your own business!
    P.S. A progressive like you sticking up for establishment "conservatives" just reinforces the conclusion of intelligent people that progressives and establishment "conservatives" aren't all that different (both welfare bums and military lifers/contracters certainly love sucking milk out of the government's breasts).

  23. #23
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    P.S. A progressive like you sticking up for establishment "conservatives" just reinforces the conclusion of intelligent people that progressives and establishment "conservatives" aren't all that different (both welfare bums and military lifers/contracters certainly love sucking milk out of the government's breasts).

    Good grief. You can have your so-called Intelligent people.

    Enjoy your trench, because your going to be there a long time, alone, for the most part.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  24. #24
    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Good grief. You can have your so-called Intelligent people.

    Enjoy your trench, because your going to be there a long time, alone, for the most part.
    Liberals and "establishment" conservatives love to pretend that Ron Paul and his son have few supporters.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    Liberals and "establishment" conservatives love to pretend that Ron Paul and his son have few supporters.
    No pretending, they in fact have fewer supporters than say: Romney. This is the part where reality meets your face. Now, you can accept that wiggling on your face is reality, or you can reject it, and walk around with 'nothing' on your face.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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