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Thread: 1000 foot law and car carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member LeviR's Avatar
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    1000 foot law and car carry

    I'm just trying to clarify the 1000 foot law. If I'm driving into town open carrying a loaded firearm and I drive on a road that is within 1000 feet of school grounds, am I in violation of the federal (or state) laws?

    Thanks!

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by LeviR View Post
    I'm just trying to clarify the 1000 foot law. If I'm driving into town open carrying a loaded firearm and I drive on a road that is within 1000 feet of school grounds, am I in violation of the federal (or state) laws?

    Thanks!
    If you dont have a permit from that state,,,
    You are...
    Nobody will care,
    The Law is only a tack on to other crimes, it Cannot! be enforced by local LEOs, and never is!!!

    many ask about this dumb law, I grow tired of responding,,, study Vermont,, No one in that place can
    be excepted from the federal law,,, but no one is ever, Not ever, aressested for walking by a school,,, ever!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Re: School Grounds

    Unless you're actually near the school grounds (as in 100 foot from the school property), Police aren't going to care. The "1000 foot" rule should be amended to "on school grounds only." If you're just driving by, chances are, Police are not going to stop you for that one.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixGunCowboy View Post
    Unless you're actually near the school grounds (as in 100 foot from the school property), Police aren't going to care. The "1000 foot" rule should be amended to "on school grounds only." If you're just driving by, chances are, Police are not going to stop you for that one.
    Police would have to set up road blocks to arrest for JUST GFSZA, and local and state police IMO do not have authority to do that. Plus if one notices the law the prosecutor would have to prove that the person arrested knew they were in a GFSZA. So don't research where the zones are, if you do that information will stay in your computer, and in the search engine.
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    please read Exceptions

    21-4204
    Chapter 21.--CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
    PART II.--PROHIBITED CONDUCT
    Article 42.--CRIMES AGAINST THE PUBLIC SAFETY
    21-4204. Criminal possession of a firearm. (a) Criminal possession of a firearm is:

    (1) Possession of any firearm by a person who is both addicted to and an unlawful user of a controlled substance;

    (2) possession of any firearm by a person who has been convicted of a person felony or a violation of K.S.A. 2009 Supp. 21-36a01 through 21-36a17, and amendments thereto, or a crime under a law of another jurisdiction which is substantially the same as such felony or violation, or was adjudicated a juvenile offender because of the commission of an act which if done by an adult would constitute the commission of a person felony or a violation of K.S.A. 2009 Supp. 21-36a01 through 21-36a17, and amendments thereto, and was found to have been in possession of a firearm at the time of the commission of the offense;

    (3) possession of any firearm by a person who, within the preceding five years has been convicted of a felony, other than those specified in subsection (a)(4)(A), under the laws of Kansas or a crime under a law of another jurisdiction which is substantially the same as such felony, has been released from imprisonment for a felony or was adjudicated as a juvenile offender because of the commission of an act which if done by an adult would constitute the commission of a felony, and was found not to have been in possession of a firearm at the time of the commission of the offense;

    (4) possession of any firearm by a person who, within the preceding 10 years, has been convicted of: (A) A felony under K.S.A. 21-3401, 21-3402, 21-3403, 21-3404, 21-3410, 21-3411, 21-3414, 21-3415, 21-3419, 21-3420, 21-3421, 21-3427, 21-3442, 21-3502, 21-3506, 21-3518, 21-3716, K.S.A. 2009 Supp. 21-36a05 or 21-36a06, and amendments thereto, or a crime under a law of another jurisdiction which is substantially the same as such felony, has been released from imprisonment for such felony, or was adjudicated as a juvenile offender because of the commission of an act which if done by an adult would constitute the commission of such felony, was found not to have been in possession of a firearm at the time of the commission of the offense, and has not had the conviction of such crime expunged or been pardoned for such crime; or (B) a nonperson felony under the laws of Kansas or a crime under the laws of another jurisdiction which is substantially the same as such nonperson felony, has been released from imprisonment for such nonperson felony or was adjudicated as a juvenile offender because of the commission of an act which if done by an adult would constitute the commission of a nonperson felony, and was found to have been in possession of a firearm at the time of the commission of the offense;

    (5) possession of any firearm by any person, other than a law enforcement officer, in or on any school property or grounds upon which is located a building or structure used by a unified school district or an accredited nonpublic school for student instruction or attendance or extracurricular activities of pupils enrolled in kindergarten or any of the grades 1 through 12 or at any regularly scheduled school sponsored activity or event;

    (6) refusal to surrender or immediately remove from school property or grounds or at any regularly scheduled school sponsored activity or event any firearm in the possession of any person, other than a law enforcement officer, when so requested or directed by any duly authorized school employee or any law enforcement officer; or

    (7) possession of any firearm by a person who is or has been a mentally ill person subject to involuntary commitment for care and treatment, as defined in K.S.A. 59-2946, and amendments thereto, or persons with an alcohol or substance abuse problem subject to involuntary commitment for care and treatment as defined in K.S.A. 59-29b46, and amendments thereto.

    (b) Subsection (a)(5) shall not apply to:

    (1) Possession of any firearm in connection with a firearms safety course of instruction or firearms education course approved and authorized by the school;

    (2) any possession of any firearm specifically authorized in writing by the superintendent of any unified school district or the chief administrator of any accredited nonpublic school;

    (3) possession of a firearm secured in a motor vehicle by a parent, guardian, custodian or someone authorized to act in such person's behalf who is delivering or collecting a student; or

    (4) possession of a firearm secured in a motor vehicle by a registered voter who is on the school grounds, which contain a polling place for the purpose of voting during polling hours on an election day.

    (c) Subsection (a)(7) shall not apply to a person who has received a certificate of restoration pursuant to K.S.A. 2009 Supp. 75-7c26, and amendments thereto.

    (d) Violation of subsection (a)(1) or (a)(5) is a class B nonperson select misdemeanor; violation of subsection (a)(2), (a)(3), (a)(4) or (a)(7) is a severity level 8, nonperson felony; violation of subsection (a)(6) is a class A nonperson misdemeanor.

    History: L. 1969, ch. 180, § 21-4204; L. 1970, ch. 124, § 8; L. 1990, ch. 102, § 2; L. 1991, ch. 85, § 1; L. 1992, ch. 298, § 70; L. 1993, ch. 291, § 149; L. 1994, ch. 348, § 4; L. 1995, ch. 92, § 2; L. 1996, ch. 158, § 4; L. 2006, ch. 210, § 14; L. 2009, ch. 32, § 29; July 1.

  6. #6
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixGunCowboy
    Unless you're actually near the school grounds (as in 100 foot from the school property), Police aren't going to care. The "1000 foot" rule should be amended to "on school grounds only." If you're just driving by, chances are, Police are not going to stop you for that one.
    Wisconsin's "GF"SZ law almost exactly parallels the federal one... in fact, it directly references most parts of the exceptions. However, it explicitly excludes licensees from carrying on school grounds. (Within the magical 1000' bubble is OK, as long as it's not on school grounds.)

    Before we had cc licenses available, and OC was the only method allowed to the little people, there was a case here of someone who took every precaution in order not to be within 1000' of a school (looked on google maps, measured, planned his route, etc.), but the police arrested him anyway. He was riding his bicycle to a friend's house, carrying an unloaded rifle.

    They said he was something like 995' away. Then in the course of prosecution, they remeasured twice & got 2 other different distances, one of which was over 1000'. At that point, the judge threw out the case & told them to give back his gun.


    Here's the federal law:
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
    18USC921
    (25) The term “school zone” means
    . . . (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
    . . . (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
    (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.
    18USC922(q)(2)(A)
    It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (q)(2)(b) details the exceptions


    Extracting the relevant bits from the KS law posted above...
    21-4204 Criminal possession of a firearm.
    (5) possession of any firearm by any person, other than a law enforcement officer, in or on any school property or grounds upon which is located a building or structure used by a unified school district or an accredited nonpublic school for student instruction or attendance or extracurricular activities of pupils enrolled in kindergarten or any of the grades 1 through 12 or at any regularly scheduled school sponsored activity or event;

    (6) refusal to surrender or immediately remove from school property or grounds or at any regularly scheduled school sponsored activity or event any firearm in the possession of any person, other than a law enforcement officer, when so requested or directed by any duly authorized school employee or any law enforcement officer
    (b) Subsection (a)(5) shall not apply to:

    (1) Possession of any firearm in connection with a firearms safety course of instruction or firearms education course approved and authorized by the school;

    (2) any possession of any firearm specifically authorized in writing by the superintendent of any unified school district or the chief administrator of any accredited nonpublic school;

    (3) possession of a firearm secured in a motor vehicle by a parent, guardian, custodian or someone authorized to act in such person's behalf who is delivering or collecting a student; or

    (4) possession of a firearm secured in a motor vehicle by a registered voter who is on the school grounds, which contain a polling place for the purpose of voting during polling hours on an election day.
    I don't see where KS has the magical 1000' bubble. At least, it's not appearing in this section of code.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 04-07-2013 at 08:24 PM.

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    Regular Member LeviR's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot for the replies, everyone.

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    Dis iz my personal opinion, no legal advice...

    In regards to the federal 1995 GFSZA, y'all missed a key element.

    The federal '95 GFSZA doesn't apply if the firearm, every component thereof, and ammo, again every component thereof, is manufactured in that same state. The Good State of Kansas, in this instance.

    That is, the '95 GFSZA only applies to firearms which have been involved with "interstate commerce". If it could be proven the gun was sold out-of-state, that firearm would then no longer be exempt from the '95 GFSZA, for it has crossed state lines in regards to "commerce".

    However, just cuz ya got yerself an all-Kansas-made firearm & ammo (and, congrats if ya do!), I recommend not trying to become case law, even if yer life is *that* boring!

    'das all.
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    Last edited by CarryTheTruth; 04-08-2013 at 01:22 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarryTheTruth View Post
    Dis iz my personal opinion, no legal advice...

    In regards to the federal 1995 GFSZA, y'all missed a key element.

    The federal '95 GFSZA doesn't apply if the firearm, every component thereof, and ammo, again every component thereof, is manufactured in that same state. The Good State of Kansas, in this instance.

    That is, the '95 GFSZA only applies to firearms which have been involved with "interstate commerce". If it could be proven the gun was sold out-of-state, that firearm would then no longer be exempt from the '95 GFSZA, for it has crossed state lines in regards to "commerce".

    However, just cuz ya got yerself an all-Kansas-made firearm & ammo (and, congrats if ya do!), I recommend not trying to become case law, even if yer life is *that* boring!

    'das all.
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    If you read the statements preceding the actual statute you will see in the governments eyes that every firearm has been in interstate commerce. Antique firearms is the only firearms that are clearly exempt. I take full advantage that the numpties in DC probably were not aware that there was not another classification of firearm that allows circumventing the law.
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    Just get a KS permit

    if you have a KS CCL permit you are exempt from federal no gun zone rules per KS HB 2528. If the state approves, the Federal no gun zone rules exempts permit holders

  11. #11
    Regular Member LeviR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    If you read the statements preceding the actual statute you will see in the governments eyes that every firearm has been in interstate commerce. Antique firearms is the only firearms that are clearly exempt. I take full advantage that the numpties in DC probably were not aware that there was not another classification of firearm that allows circumventing the law.
    Kansas just passed a bill (hasn't been signed yet) that nullifies federal law and specifically indicates that firearms and ammunition manufactured in Kansas *even if* the components came from other states, are not subject to federal law.

  12. #12
    Regular Member LeviR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marine0300 View Post
    if you have a KS CCL permit you are exempt from federal no gun zone rules per KS HB 2528. If the state approves, the Federal no gun zone rules exempts permit holders
    Yes, I know could just get a permit. However, financially, that's not in the cards right now. Kansas is quite expensive relative to some other states I'm aware of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeviR View Post
    Kansas just passed a bill (hasn't been signed yet) that nullifies federal law and specifically indicates that firearms and ammunition manufactured in Kansas *even if* the components came from other states, are not subject to federal law.
    Except it does nothing of the kind.

    It is merely feel-good legislation with no authority.

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    it does have teeth. If federal government trys something our KS Attorney General has to defend you or us. Adds more weight

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    Regular Member LeviR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Except it does nothing of the kind.

    It is merely feel-good legislation with no authority.
    Well, notalawyer, thank you for that wonderful legal analysis

    Seriously though, the 10th amendment does have meaning... laws like this will hopefully give it teeth. We need more states to join us!

  16. #16
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeviR View Post
    Kansas just passed a bill (hasn't been signed yet) that nullifies federal law and specifically indicates that firearms and ammunition manufactured in Kansas *even if* the components came from other states, are not subject to federal law.
    This is good, but it only affects local and state law enforcement, the feds have police also that can enforce the law. So far they have not gone out of their way to do that, that does not mean they will not in the future. The law was written to make it near impossible to carry a firearm outside private property, they knew very well the implications when they passed it. The feds are afraid of a SCOTUS show down until the court changes. When it does we will be in for trouble. And we have 3 more years of his presence, we will see the court change in that time. I foresee the price of 1858 Remington revolvers skyrocketing. I need to buy a couple of new ones before it does. Maybe Ruger will bring back their New Army models.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 04-09-2013 at 01:45 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  17. #17
    Regular Member LeviR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    This is good, but it only affects local and state law enforcement, the feds have police also that can enforce the law. So far they have not gone out of their way to do that, that does not mean they will not in the future. The law was written to make it near impossible to carry a firearm outside private property, they knew very well the implications when they passed it. The feds are afraid of a SCOTUS show down until the court changes. When it does we will be in for trouble. And we have 3 more years of his presence, we will see the court change in that time. I foresee the price of 1858 Remington revolvers skyrocketing. I need to buy a couple of new ones before it does. Maybe Ruger will bring back their New Army models.
    Well I suppose our only recourse is the congress then. It doesn't look good.

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