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Thread: OC in Illinois

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    OC in Illinois

    Concealed carry only supporters discuss Open Carry in Illinois.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    Concealed carry only supporters discuss Open Carry in Illinois.
    LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    as long as you have a valid FOID card, you will be able to open or conceal carry, AKA "Constitutional Carry".
    Requiring an FOID card is NOT Constitutional Carry. Period.
    Last edited by Oramac; 04-11-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    Requiring an FOID card is NOT Constitutional Carry. Period.
    While I agree somewhat, the FOID card is not for carry, it is required in Commie Illinois for buying, owning, possession. Citizens who are not IL residents could carry without the FOID card in IL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    While I agree somewhat, the FOID card is not for carry, it is required in Commie Illinois for buying, owning, possession. Citizens who are not IL residents could carry without the FOID card in IL.
    I don't think the FOID card is required to own or possess. One could buy a gun (FOID valid) and then let it lapse...it would not make the possession of the gun bought illegal. If so, many folks in IL would have had their doors knocked down already I would think.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I don't think the FOID card is required to own or possess. One could buy a gun (FOID valid) and then let it lapse...it would not make the possession of the gun bought illegal. If so, many folks in IL would have had their doors knocked down already I would think.
    I will probably have to dig, but I believe some years back ISP did exactly that, confiscated guns from gun owners with expired FOID.

    http://www.wmsa.net/kc3_020122.htm
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 04-11-2013 at 01:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I will probably have to dig, but I believe some years back ISP did exactly that, confiscated guns from gun owners with expired FOID.

    http://www.wmsa.net/kc3_020122.htm

    That webpage is from JUN 2011 ..maybe just an idea some goof had ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    WW is correct - they DO confiscate!
    I think it was posted on ICarry.org last summer but about a year ago, the state and local police in the Rockford area did a sweep checking if some of the expired FOID's the ISP had still had guns. Of course, they found several people "in possession of" and "in violation of" the FOID rules.
    IL is definitely on my list of "do not move to states", along with MD, CT, CA, and of course NY, in 3 years when I retire from the Corps.
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    HB997 failed today. This time it was down to 64 votes from 67 after giving it to a bunch more of Chicago's nonsense. They have not yet learned that appeasement will not work unless you give them EVERYTHING they want.

    Open Carry was never included in the first place. They didn't need our support. Oh, they said give us CC only with no OC and you will be better off, but it was really a half hearted attempt to say support us while we work against you oc freaks.

    So, June 9th is getting closer and unless the NRA, ISRA, and " the website that shall not be named " cave to some horrid Chicago style CC only bill, we may actually get open carry in most of Illinois.

    Personally I think they are willing to give away not only 4th and 5th amendment " duty to inform " rights, but just about every other right you can think of before this is over. I certainly don't trust them to keep our "container transport" advances. They hate that almost as much as OC.

    However, tick, tock, tick tock. 52 days until Open Carry in Illinois.

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    The Daily Herald reports gun rights activists note the dangerous alternative if lawmakers can't pass a concealed carry law by the June 9 deadline: Gun owners would be allowed to have a gun on them without any restrictions or prior training.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...hp_ref=chicago



    Why is the NRA trying to make these outrageous deals? 10 hrs of training? cost $100??? Get your butt involved to insure NOTHING passes and then you can carry as you please.

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    OC in Illinois

    I would love to see the combination of those who hate carry with those who love Liberty defeating every proposal so that, on June 9, there is no law against carry in IL!

    Today just drips with irony!


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    NRA are not gun rights activists, they are paid lobbyists. They couldn't care less about rights, they are interested in privileges that will bring in a steady diet of money from the training they push. They have been behind the very proposals in the past that they are now against, because WE raised a fuss, and stopped our membership with them, and they know why we did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    HB997 failed today. This time it was down to 64 votes from 67 after giving it to a bunch more of Chicago's nonsense. They have not yet learned that appeasement will not work unless you give them EVERYTHING they want.

    Open Carry was never included in the first place. They didn't need our support. Oh, they said give us CC only with no OC and you will be better off, but it was really a half hearted attempt to say support us while we work against you oc freaks.

    So, June 9th is getting closer and unless the NRA, ISRA, and " the website that shall not be named " cave to some horrid Chicago style CC only bill, we may actually get open carry in most of Illinois.

    Personally I think they are willing to give away not only 4th and 5th amendment " duty to inform " rights, but just about every other right you can think of before this is over. I certainly don't trust them to keep our "container transport" advances. They hate that almost as much as OC.

    However, tick, tock, tick tock. 52 days until Open Carry in Illinois.
    Here is the link to the status of Illinois HB 0997 including substitute amendment 9 from Rep. Brandon W. Phelps (the bills original author). http://ilga.gov/legislation/BillStat...Session=&GA=98

    On April 19, 2013 it was re-referred to the Rules Committee.

    -----------

    I looked at the engrossed bill with amendment 9 merged into it, http://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext...ID=12&Session=

    On page 5, line 8, it says:

    8 (a-5) The Department is authorized to issue licenses to
    9 carry a handgun under this Act. A license shall permit the
    10 licensee to:
    11 (1) carry a loaded or unloaded handgun on or about his
    12 or her person, concealed or otherwise;
    13 (2) keep or carry a loaded or unloaded handgun on or
    14 about his or her person when in a vehicle; and
    15 (3) keep a loaded or unloaded handgun openly or
    16 concealed in a vehicle.
    I understand that this is licensed carry, but it does not seem to differentiate between Open Carry or Concealed Carry. Why are so many postings suggesting that it will not allow Open Carry?

    The only differentiation I found was in only allowing concealed carry on public transportation...

    Pages 31 and 32 deals with Home rule Preemption by the state:

    25 Section 95. Home rule preemption. The regulation and


    HB0997 Engrossed - 32 - LRB098 04070 RLC 34093 b


    1 licensing of firearms, including their possession, carrying,
    2 transportation, or the issuance of licenses to carry concealed
    3 firearms, is an exclusive power and function of the State.
    4 Except as provided in subsection (b) of Section 70, a home rule
    5 unit shall not regulate the possession, carrying, or
    6 transportation of firearms, their components or accessories,
    7 or ammunition by a person licensed under this Act. A home rule
    8 unit shall not require registration of firearms, regulate the
    9 number of firearms, or make any other requirements or
    10 regulations of a person licensed under this Act. This Section
    11 is a limitation under subsection (i) of Section 6 of Article
    12 VII of the Illinois Constitution on the exercise by home rule
    13 units of powers and functions exercised by the State. Any unit
    14 of local government that violates this Section shall be liable
    15 for all costs, fees, and damages to anyone impacted by any rule
    16 or ordinance.
    This is in page 23 & 24, subsection 70(b) the above exception to the home rule preemption:

    11 (b) A municipality, county, or school district may prohibit
    12 or limit licensees from carrying a firearm into or within any
    13 building or portion of any building owned, leased, or
    14 controlled by the municipality, county, or school district by a
    15 majority vote of the members of its legislative body or
    16 governing board. The resolution, ordinance, or policy shall not
    17 prohibit a licensee from carrying a concealed firearm into or
    18 within any building used for public housing; into or within any
    19 publicly-accessible restroom or rest stop; into, within, or on
    20 any bridge, tunnel, overpass, underpass, elevated walkway, or
    21 other structure used as a public right of way; or into or
    22 within any publicly-accessible parking facility. The
    23 resolution, ordinance, or policy shall not prohibit a licensee
    24 from carrying a concealed firearm in a public transportation
    25 facility or while accessing the services of a public
    26 transportation agency, including while traveling via public


    HB0997 Engrossed - 24 - LRB098 04070 RLC 34093 b


    1 transportation. For purposes of this Section, "public
    2 transportation agency" means a public or private agency, or any
    3 combination thereof, that provides for the transportation or
    4 conveyance of persons by means available to the general public,
    5 except taxicabs, livery cabs, or limousines. Violators of the
    6 resolution or ordinance may be removed from the premises and
    7 assessed a civil fine of up to $100.
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    What kind of reciprocity (if any) was in the bill that got shot down?

    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    And it is that "public transportation" clause that is causing some of the current trouble.
    Both Shicago and St. Louis' "Metro" are adamantly against carry on their services. While I am (thankfully) unfamiliar with Shicago public transportation, undoubtedly there are areas (like through East St. Louis, IL) where it is "unwise" to go at the best of times. Missouri already has carry, but not St. Louis City as there is no statewide preemption (as I understand it).
    Living in Missouri myself, you're right. We don't have statewide preemption yet. OC is not legal in St Louis City or County, but once you get outside that area it gets complicated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    What kind of reciprocity (if any) was in the bill that got shot down?

    Thank you.
    r

    There was something about recognition of several states Florida, Arizona, Wisconsin and a few others that require range training. The requirement on HB997 for 10 hours of training came about because some reps said they would vote for the bill if it was increased to that. Before that it was 8 hours, NRA basic pistol etc. Those reps lied asked for even more, like one gun a month legislation I understand and so the bill didn't pass. There is a possibility a senate bill almost identical to HB997 might pass. I say might!.

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    Crossing my fingers that no bills are passed. They will keep trying after Constitutional Carry becomes the rule by the court, but by then people will already be open carrying. And Illinois will see that it is not a disaster looming and hopefully accept it. Then a reasonable bill can be passed that will protect everybody's right and allow for a permit for those that choose it over constitutional carry.
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    Re: OC in Illinois

    +1

    I hope so.

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    Are all of you waiting for HB997 to pass so you can get a privilege card? Or nothing passed and after June 9th assume your 2nd amendment rights?

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    OC in Illinois

    June 9 is 34 days away. Why is it 41 days that you are counting?


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    Re: OC in Illinois

    I agree JT. HB997 started as an unpleasant but acceptable comprise with Chicago. It's not any more. We still have the FOID card so Illinois will not be Constitutional Carry . We will be more like Pennsylvania where we have a license to carry with the FOID card. I don't feel any particular need for 10 hours of training plus live fire plus duty to inform.

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    Last edited by kurt555gs; 05-06-2013 at 09:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    I agree JT. HB997 started as an unpleasant but acceptable comprise with Chicago. It's not any more. We still have the FOID card so Illinois will not be Constitutional Carry . We will be more like Pennsylvania where we have a license to carry with the FOID card. I don't feel any particular need for 10 hours of training plus live fire plus duty to inform.
    If Chicago (and everyplace else) can pass their own laws, then why is everyone counting down with such glee?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    If Chicago (and everyplace else) can pass their own laws, then why is everyone counting down with such glee?
    You have to remember that a ruling by federal court does not exclude Chicago, home rule is a system of laws for ILLINOIS courts, not federal. I believe any arrest on home rule will end right back in the 7th federal court, and that city will be spanked appropriately. If the courts say it is unconstitutional to deny the right to carry then it is so. Unless the court made special provisions for home rule, and as far as I know, they did not.

    When a court rules a practice or law unconstitutional it is VOID, no matter who puts a law in place. Unless a higher court overrules the 7th, which I suspect may happen. The only way Chicago can get around constitutional carry is to enact a concealed carry law before or after June 9th, and then it will have to meet the courts muster.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Hoping for the best here.

    If I understand it right, only 21 days to go.

    I had occasion to go to dinner near Schaumberg with some people who live in the area, and they are pissed as hell at this judge for striking down the law. boo hoo, let me call the waaaaaahmbulance.

    Good luck. If Wisconsin can turn around maybe you can too. Personally I prefer to have both the OC and CC options open.

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