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OC in Illinois

J

junglebob

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361
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Southern Illinois, Illinois, USA
RANDYT said:
Because the bill preempt home rule it requires 71 votes to pass the house. Madigan is backing the current bill, which passed the house today, with 85 votes. madigan in his closing remarks said that he pulled 15 votes from the 997 bill originally written by Phelps. Our choses where this bill which could be better, but is doable, or the may issue, 40 hour training, with chicago having its own requirements.

There is 220 home rule units in Illinois, that could have there own carry rules, and the cliff was never an option, even though they said either a good bill or over the cliff. The truth is the pro 2a supporters where starting to cave, and if they didn't pass this bill, then they would vote for a may issue travesty. the bill that passed the house today is far from perfect, but will get full preemption of firearms laws statewide. That means no more Chicago firearm permit, no more cook county AWB ban, not more cook county magazine size requirements, no more cook county $25 firearm tax.

All firearms laws will have to go through the state legislature, so they could pass a statewide AWB, magazine ban, but Madigan has already proved he doesn't have the votes to pass either one. We even had reps, that would never vote for concealed carry, vote yes today, because Madigan said they had to.
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I counted 16 democrat reps that had voted NO on a concealed carry bill in the past that voted yes on this one. Some that did seemed to oppose any good firearm bill that came up. Many were from the Chicago area. Many democrat reps downstate supported an even better carry bill before this.

The bill is expected to come up in the senate this week for a vote. The Senate Leader could fail to bring it up for a vote but I doubt he does.
 
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O

OC4me

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Although I'm not from Illinois, I'm ready to cancel my NRA membership over this fiasco. For God's sake, why on earth is the NRA supporting any form of carry permit system? What part of shall not be infringed does the NRA not understand?
 
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WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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OC4me said:
Although I'm not from Illinois, I'm ready to cancel my NRA membership over this fiasco. For God's sake, why on earth is the NRA supporting any form of carry permit system? What part of shall not be infringed does the NRA not understand?
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I stopped giving the NRA money along time ago, they do not support RKBA, they support the right to make money. There is money in permits, there is no money in unlicensed open carry. The only reason they have come around on background checks is because the gun buying public raised helll. I believe they supported background checks in the past, and other gun control measures. Unfortunately the public has been sold fear of open carried firearms, including gun owners. Add to that the phony feeling some get from having a privilege card that they think brings them a small amount of elitism. I suspect the problems in Illinois are coming from the concealed only crowd.
 
lockman

lockman

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Elgin, Illinois, USA
WalkingWolf said:
I stopped giving the NRA money along time ago, they do not support RKBA, they support the right to make money. There is money in permits, there is no money in unlicensed open carry. The only reason they have come around on background checks is because the gun buying public raised helll. I believe they supported background checks in the past, and other gun control measures. Unfortunately the public has been sold fear of open carried firearms, including gun owners. Add to that the phony feeling some get from having a privilege card that they think brings them a small amount of elitism. I suspect the problems in Illinois are coming from the concealed only crowd.
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The NRA withdrew support of the bill, although they are now neutral. Not a dime of training money goes to the NRA . The NRA does believe in compromise and that is not the way to protect fundamental rights.
 
WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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lockman said:
The NRA withdrew support of the bill, although they are now neutral. Not a dime of training money goes to the NRA . The NRA does believe in compromise and that is not the way to protect fundamental rights.
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Just like not a dime of firearm manufacturers money goes to the NRA? And where does that money donated/contributions by those making a living off of training go?
 
BB62

BB62

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WalkingWolf said:
You have to remember that a ruling by federal court does not exclude Chicago, home rule is a system of laws for ILLINOIS courts, not federal. I believe any arrest on home rule will end right back in the 7th federal court, and that city will be spanked appropriately. If the courts say it is unconstitutional to deny the right to carry then it is so. Unless the court made special provisions for home rule, and as far as I know, they did not.

When a court rules a practice or law unconstitutional it is VOID, no matter who puts a law in place. Unless a higher court overrules the 7th, which I suspect may happen. The only way Chicago can get around constitutional carry is to enact a concealed carry law before or after June 9th, and then it will have to meet the courts muster.
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It looks like Lisa Madigan (IL Attorney General) disagrees with you (no surprise there):

"...Since the federal court ruling dealt only with the state law, those nearly identical local laws would remain in force after June 9, according to an analysis by Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan's office. If no state law is passed by June 9, the question will automatically revert on June 10 to the district courts, which will be tasked with crafting injunctions that incorporate the federal court's ruling..."

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2013/05/ccw.html

My fervent hope is that the cow-patty bill passed in the IL House goes nowhere - and of course that Madigan has to eat crow.
 
WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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BB62 said:
It looks like Lisa Madigan (IL Attorney General) disagrees with you (no surprise there):

"...Since the federal court ruling dealt only with the state law, those nearly identical local laws would remain in force after June 9, according to an analysis by Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan's office. If no state law is passed by June 9, the question will automatically revert on June 10 to the district courts, which will be tasked with crafting injunctions that incorporate the federal court's ruling..."

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2013/05/ccw.html

My fervent hope is that the cow-patty bill passed in the IL House goes nowhere - and of course that Madigan has to eat crow.
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She is a libtard, of course she disagrees.:lol: The fact that if a law is unconstitutional on the state level, it is unconstitutional on the local level. The ruling was NOT about infringing on local, or home rule rights, but citizen's rights. That is obvious.
 
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kurt555gs

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I'm trying to find the part about home rule communities in the 10th amendment and having trouble. Can anybody else find this?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
 
WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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kurt555gs said:
I'm trying to find the part about home rule communities in the 10th amendment and having trouble. Can anybody else find this?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
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DC screwed up when they argued the Heller case, they should have argued "Home Rule", same for Black V US... :lol:
 
eye95

eye95

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BB62 said:
It looks like Lisa Madigan (IL Attorney General) disagrees with you (no surprise there):

"...Since the federal court ruling dealt only with the state law, those nearly identical local laws would remain in force after June 9, according to an analysis by Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan's office. If no state law is passed by June 9, the question will automatically revert on June 10 to the district courts, which will be tasked with crafting injunctions that incorporate the federal court's ruling..."

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2013/05/ccw.html

My fervent hope is that the cow-patty bill passed in the IL House goes nowhere - and of course that Madigan has to eat crow.
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While I agree that the appeals court ruling means that most local laws that infringe in a similar way to the State law are also unconstitutional, it will take additional court rulings to get the localities to stop enforcing their unconstitutional laws. They will continue to enforce these laws, without consequence to themselves, until specific rulings strike those specific laws down.


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BB62

BB62

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eye95 said:
While I agree that the appeals court ruling means that most local laws that infringe in a similar way to the State law are also unconstitutional, it will take additional court rulings to get the localities to stop enforcing their unconstitutional laws. They will continue to enforce these laws, without consequence to themselves, until specific rulings strike those specific laws down...
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I think you're absolutely right. They will use all tools at their disposal with little or no pain to themselves.

I wonder what the plans are of IL's RKBA organization(s) about such things?


On another note, to you Illinoisans(sp?): When does the Senate adjourn for the summer - iow what is their deadline for passing something like/unlike the IL House has?
 
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lockman

lockman

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BB62 said:
I think you're absolutely right. They will use all tools at their disposal with little or no pain to themselves.

I wonder what the plans are of IL's RKBA organization(s) about such things?


On another note, to you Illinoisans(sp?): When does the Senate adjourn for the summer - iow what is their deadline for passing something like/unlike the IL House has?
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I believe May 31st. After that all legislation passed requires in a special session would require a 2/3 majority.
 
WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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BB62 said:
I think you're absolutely right. They will use all tools at their disposal with little or no pain to themselves.

I wonder what the plans are of IL's RKBA organization(s) about such things?


On another note, to you Illinoisans(sp?): When does the Senate adjourn for the summer - iow what is their deadline for passing something like/unlike the IL House has?
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I am sure they will, but the challenge is the judge in the courtroom that is bound to honor the 4th circuit court ruling. Any attempt to go around should end in the courtroom if the judge is honest. Which if the judges do follow the ruling it could get very expensive for those home rule idiots.

Not positive on this, digging at this time, but any local home rule law could be no more than a misdemeanor. I do know that local governments cannot prosecute felony DUI on a local ordnance, it must be prosecuted under Il statutes.
 
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WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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ComradeV said:
Very interesting.
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Yup! Without felony meat to back up charges I can see a lot of people ignoring home rule ordinances. If the seventh then follows the 4th on RAS for search(Black V US) the locals will end up toothless. I think Il will see a surge on the sale of ultra compact handguns.
 
eye95

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The fact that convictions may not result does not solve the underlying problem. You may beat the rap, but you won't have beaten the ride. Ask Jonathon Norris and Roy Call. The charges did not stand up for those guys, but they were both punished harshly for breaking non-laws that the cops thought were or should be laws.


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junglebob

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Southern Illinois, Illinois, USA
JTHunter said:
tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...tick

One week.
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The question now that the concealed carry bill has passed the house and senate by a large majority, much more than needed to override the governor's veto, will he sign it. Maybe he did in the dark of night, already. If not will soon or on June 9 or veto it or take no action?
 
WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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junglebob said:
The question now that the concealed carry bill has passed the house and senate by a large majority, much more than needed to override the governor's veto, will he sign it. Maybe he did in the dark of night, already. If not will soon or on June 9 or veto it or take no action?
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I suspect he will take no action, thereby stalling a override. The good people of Illinois should be flooding his office with phone calls daily to stop this bill. If not it is what they want, as sad as that is.

If the gov signs the bill he signs away chances of a appeal of the circuit court ruling, which he has publicly stated he wants. My guess is he will not sign it.
 
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eye95

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Since the IL legislature was supposed to go out of session at the end of the month, what happens if the governor "pocket vetoes" the bill? Does IL have such an option?


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