Perhaps Loki was onto something

John Pierce · Apr 8, 2013

In the hit 2012 movie The Avengers, the Norse trickster god Loki threatens a crowd and makes them kneel before him as he delivers a speech about what he thinks of the human race.

“Is this not your natural state? It’s the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life’s joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel.”

As I was watching the movie, I was properly outraged at the character’s assertions. I remember thinking that he was going to be surprised at the fighting spirit inherent in the human race.

But as I sit here tonight watching the Democrats across the country systematically stripping away the self-defense rights of their ‘subjects’ one state at a time and being praised by their sycophants for doing so, I am made to wonder … perhaps Loki was right after all … at least where some humans are concerned.

There seems to be a subset of humanity that does indeed crave subjugation, even in America. We call them anti-gunners.

Read more at John Pierce's Monachus Lex.

Beretta92FSLady · Apr 8, 2013

Most humans want to be controlled. Most human want to feel safe.

Silvertongue · Apr 9, 2013

Those humans who wish to be controlled, and find safety in that control, have every right to feel that way.

I would greatly appreciate it, however, if they would kindly leave the rest of us alone.

PFC HALE · Apr 9, 2013

feed those what they desire at no charge and they will kneel to their givers. it is human nature to be complacent and lazy and our government exploits these traits and creates a dependent class that will support them as long as that dependent class gets their free stuff. treat the like mushrooms, feed them sh!t and keep them in the dark.

KBCraig · Apr 9, 2013

"In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet, and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us!'"
-- The Grand Inquisitor, The Brothers Karamazov

eye95 · Apr 9, 2013

That some (possible even most) want to be controlled does not mean that we all should be.

sudden valley gunner · Apr 9, 2013

John Pierce said:
In the hit 2012 movie The Avengers, the Norse trickster god Loki threatens a crowd and makes them kneel before him as he delivers a speech about what he thinks of the human race.

“Is this not your natural state? It’s the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life’s joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel.”

As I was watching the movie, I was properly outraged at the character’s assertions. I remember thinking that he was going to be surprised at the fighting spirit inherent in the human race.

But as I sit here tonight watching the Democrats across the country systematically stripping away the self-defense rights of their ‘subjects’ one state at a time and being praised by their sycophants for doing so, I am made to wonder … perhaps Loki was right after all … at least where some humans are concerned.

There seems to be a subset of humanity that does indeed crave subjugation, even in America. We call them anti-gunners.

Read more at John Pierce's Monachus Lex.

I don't think he's right John, I think humans are conditioned to accept subjugation. This isn't something that only democrats are doing. Look at how many Republicans insist on the misconstrued use of the saying "rule of law" and insist on respecting "authority".

John Pierce · Apr 9, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
I don't think he's right John, I think humans are conditioned to accept subjugation. This isn't something that only democrats are doing. Look at how many Republicans insist on the misconstrued use of the saying "rule of law" and insist on respecting "authority".

Sadly true.

PistolPackingMomma · Apr 9, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
I don't think he's right John, I think humans are conditioned to accept subjugation. This isn't something that only democrats are doing. Look at how many Republicans insist on the misconstrued use of the saying "rule of law" and insist on respecting "authority".

+1

And I agree it's conditioned; but I'm not sure it's an inherent trait. Naturally, we have "leaders" and "followers", but that speaks to the diversity of the individual, rather than the entire human race. To lump the whole of humanity into such a classification, is, in itself, a subconscious attempt to define and control us, which loops back to conditioning.

beebobby · Apr 9, 2013

The right wants to make reproductive decisions for women and the religious right wants to make marriage decisions for other Americans, so it's not just Democrats or liberals who want control over others.

Citizen · Apr 9, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
I don't think he's right John, I think humans are conditioned to accept subjugation. This isn't something that only democrats are doing. Look at how many Republicans insist on the misconstrued use of the saying "rule of law" and insist on respecting "authority".

Agreed, at least to a certain extent. I think Jefferson's remark in the Declaration of Independence applies very broadly too--that people are disposed to suffer indignities up to a certain point. Take a look at what's happening in Cyprus and Greece: near riots over the banking situation and austerity measures.

Our job is to educate them. I was very heartened to read in yesterday's paper that Ron Paul is developing a curriculum for home schoolers that specifically includes liberty vs coercion in western history, how to defend the liberty philosphy, how to succeed in college, and how to start a business. He's being helped by a long-time friend and commentator, Gary North, himself an astute observer with great insights. According to the story, homeschooling increased from an estimated 1.1 million in 2003, to 1.5 million in 2007. No government statistics for today, five years later, which just makes me suspicious the fedgov is suppressing the data. The push back toward freedom has begun; we need to help by putting our shoulder to the wheel.

Also, once this vote fails in congress, the pro-gunners need to go on the offensive, systematically stripping away federal nonsense. No more sitting quietly for the NRA. They need to pick a few federal laws and make them into a national issue. Knock those down, then pick a few more, and keep rolling it back until we can buy Thompson SMGs through the Sears catalog again.

OC for ME · Apr 10, 2013

As long as any individual is not "inconvenienced" by the government they are not going to take a "stand" against government. Some number of our fellow citizens are righteously outraged when government obviously abuses a citizen and then they change the channel.

When the government comes knocking on their door, that is when "subjects" and "free men" are identified.

sudden valley gunner · Apr 10, 2013

PistolPackingMomma said:
+1

And I agree it's conditioned; but I'm not sure it's an inherent trait. Naturally, we have "leaders" and "followers", but that speaks to the diversity of the individual, rather than the entire human race. To lump the whole of humanity into such a classification, is, in itself, a subconscious attempt to define and control us, which loops back to conditioning.

Citizen said:
Agreed, at least to a certain extent. I think Jefferson's remark in the Declaration of Independence applies very broadly too--that people are disposed to suffer indignities up to a certain point. Take a look at what's happening in Cyprus and Greece: near riots over the banking situation and austerity measures.

Our job is to educate them. I was very heartened to read in yesterday's paper that Ron Paul is developing a curriculum for home schoolers that specifically includes liberty vs coercion in western history, how to defend the liberty philosphy, how to succeed in college, and how to start a business. He's being helped by a long-time friend and commentator, Gary North, himself an astute observer with great insights. According to the story, homeschooling increased from an estimated 1.1 million in 2003, to 1.5 million in 2007. No government statistics for today, five years later, which just makes me suspicious the fedgov is suppressing the data. The push back toward freedom has begun; we need to help by putting our shoulder to the wheel.

Also, once this vote fails in congress, the pro-gunners need to go on the offensive, systematically stripping away federal nonsense. No more sitting quietly for the NRA. They need to pick a few federal laws and make them into a national issue. Knock those down, then pick a few more, and keep rolling it back until we can buy Thompson SMGs through the Sears catalog again.

These two points go together and bring out good thoughts. I don't think it is an inherit trait to subject ourselves to anyone. Do think though we are inherently peaceful and so do allow others to take places of power and authority we shouldn't allow them to have, and that the only way to stop that is education, and since that definitely won't happen from state sponsored education, it has to come from other forms of it.

MSG Laigaie · Apr 10, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
I think humans are conditioned to accept subjugation.

I agree, the People are trained to respond. Gun control=gun violence, tax=revenue, lies=truth, say it often enough and People will believe it.

OC for ME said:
As long as any individual is not "inconvenienced" by the government they are not going to take a "stand" against government. Some number of our fellow citizens are righteously outraged when government obviously abuses a citizen and then they change the channel.
MSG L says( Citizenship is a Verb.)

When the government comes knocking on their door, that is when "subjects" and "free men" are identified.

When the government comes knocking on their door?? They will do what they did in Canada when they made the AK .22 clone illegal. They tell you to turn them in. And they will. They will march right down to the PD and hand over the last bastion of freedom they had to protect themselves.

Beretta92FSLady · Apr 10, 2013

MSG Laigaie said:
I agree, the People are trained to respond. Gun control=gun violence, tax=revenue, lies=truth, say it often enough and People will believe it.
When the government comes knocking on their door?? They will do what they did in Canada when they made the AK .22 clone illegal. They tell you to turn them in. And they will. They will march right down to the PD and hand over the last bastion of freedom they had to protect themselves.

If by They, you mean both firearm owners and non firearm owners....well, firearm owners, 99.9% will hand them over, guaranteed. It's went down like that in many areas of the world. American firearm owners are no exception.

Don't get me wrong, I like reading people assert "from my cold dead hands."

marshaul · Apr 10, 2013

PistolPackingMomma said:
Naturally, we have "leaders" and "followers"

Is this natural?

I have always been adverse to "authority", or even people who think their will ought to influence mine (i.e. "leaders").

I remember as a youth being told I had latent but undeveloped "leadership potential".

I responded that I didn't believe in "leadership", either practically, theoretically, or philosophically, and if I did, I would find it immoral (probably less succinctly, but that was the gist of it).

I do believe in proprietary management, but only in an employment setting. When it comes to our lives, our personal decision, etc – no leaders.

georg jetson · Apr 10, 2013

In general, I don't think humans crave subjugation. We have a desire to be left alone. We also have a severely limited capacity to mind our own dang business. In order to rationalize the nosiness and meddling, we have leadership, and from there subjugation.

PistolPackingMomma · Apr 10, 2013

marshaul said:
Is this natural?

I have always been adverse to "authority", or even people who think their will ought to influence mine (i.e. "leaders").

I remember as a youth being told I had latent but undeveloped "leadership potential".

I responded that I didn't believe in "leadership", either practically, theoretically, or philosophically, and if I did, I would find it immoral (probably less succinctly, but that was the gist of it).

I do believe in proprietary management, but only in an employment setting. When it comes to our lives, our personal decision, etc – no leaders.

That's very thought provoking. So the question is; are these traits present by nature, or defined by nurture?

Personally, I believe it is a bit of both, but there are too many variables for a precise mathematical equation; courage, cowardice, motivation of love/survival/material gain, the thrill of power, the love of freedom, the insecurity of uncertainty, philosophical belief, religious conviction...certain people possessing particular traits may be more pre-disposed to cultivation of leader or follower roles in a hierarchy based society, rather than an individual liberty based one.

TL; DR:

Certain people are more subject to conditioning than others, but cannot be entirely influenced outside the sphere of their personality type.

marshaul · Apr 10, 2013

PistolPackingMomma said:
That's very thought provoking. So the question is; are these traits present by nature, or defined by nurture?

Personally, I believe it is a bit of both, but there are too many variables for a precise mathematical equation; courage, cowardice, motivation of love/survival/material gain, the thrill of power, the love of freedom, the insecurity of uncertainty, philosophical belief, religious conviction...certain people possessing particular traits may be more pre-disposed to cultivation of leader or follower roles in a hierarchy based society, rather than an individual liberty based one.

TL; DR:

Certain people are more subject to conditioning than others, but cannot be entirely influenced outside the sphere of their personality type.

I agree. There are certain drives which can encourage subservient traits.

For instance, the drive to safety is undoubtedly natural. Women, having greater evolutionary responsibility in childrearing, seem to experience this slightly more. And this seems to result in a slightly greater preference by women for "safety" based laws – the Brady Bunch, Mad Mothers of all sorts, etc, seem to bear this out.

(Of course I mean no offense, and I don't mean to overgeneralize, but that's been my observation.)

However, much of it is nurtural, too. Even the drive to safety manifesting as a desire for laws is, essentially, cultural. Again picking on women (for convenience now since I already did), it seems that culturally Asian women are far more law-favoring than culturally American women, in my experience (this is true of men, too, but I thought I'd keep the same frame of reference).

That's why, so long as I am alive, I will do my best to spread and preserve the culture of liberty.

Citizen · Apr 10, 2013

georg jetson said:
In general, I don't think humans crave subjugation. We have a desire to be left alone. We also have a severely limited capacity to mind our own dang business. In order to rationalize the nosiness and meddling, we have leadership, and from there subjugation.

(chuckle) I don't know if that's true, but it has a certain down-to-earth ring to it.

Perhaps Loki was onto something

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