• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Senators Strike Deal On Background Checks

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Even between family members they'll likely require DNA tests, retina scans, anal probing to establish a familial relationship.

Its all BS....

And why are they meeting in private? They cannot do that. Commies...all of them.
 

Ca Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
2,330
Location
, ,
does anyone have the breakdown of the votes so far ? i cant find it online

judging by the numbers there must have been quite a few republicans who voted for this
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
does anyone have the breakdown of the votes so far ? i cant find it online

judging by the numbers there must have been quite a few republicans who voted for this

I believe 16 so far, frigging traitors!

Kelly Ayotte (N.H.)
Richard Burr (N.C.)
Saxby Chambliss (Ga.)
Tom Coburn (Okla.)
Susan Collins (Maine)
Bob Corker (Tenn.)
Jeff Flake (Ariz.)
Lindsey Graham (S.C.)
Dean Heller (Nev.)
John Hoeven (N.D.)
Johnny Isakson (Ga.)
Mark Kirk (Ill.),
John McCain (Ariz.)
Pat Toomey (Pa.)
Roger Wicker (Miss.)
Lamar Alexander (Tenn.)
 
Last edited:

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Received information that this is the Text of the Bill, under Transfer.
Transfer fees FFL's can charge are also capped, no amount set yet.

`(t)(1) Beginning on the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment of the Fix Gun Checks Act of 2013, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not licensed under this chapter to transfer a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, unless a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer has first taken possession of the firearm for the purpose of complying with subsection (s). Upon taking possession of the firearm, the licensee shall comply with all requirements of this chapter as if the licensee were transferring the firearm from the licensee's inventory to the unlicensed transferee.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--

(A) bona fide gifts between spouses, between parents and their children, between siblings, or between grandparents and their grandchildren;

(B) a transfer made from a decedent's estate, pursuant to a legal will or the operation of law;

(C) a temporary transfer of possession that occurs between an unlicensed transferor and an unlicensed transferee, if--

(i) the temporary transfer of possession occurs in the home or curtilage of the unlicensed transferor;

(ii) the firearm is not removed from that home or curtilage during the temporary transfer; and

(iii) the transfer has a duration of less than 7 days; and

(D) a temporary transfer of possession without transfer of title made in connection with lawful hunting or sporting purposes if the transfer occurs--

(i) at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms and the firearm is, at all times, kept within the premises of the shooting range;

(ii) at a target firearm shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by a State agency or nonprofit organization and the firearm is, at all times, kept within the premises of the shooting competition; or

(iii) while hunting or trapping, if--
(I) the activity is legal in all places where the unlicensed transferee possesses the firearm;
(II) the temporary transfer of possession occurs during the designated hunting season; and
(III) the unlicensed transferee holds any required license or permit.

(3) For purposes of this subsection, the term `transfer'--

(A) shall include a sale, gift, loan, return from pawn or consignment, or other disposition; and

(B) shall not include temporary possession of the firearm for purposes of examination or evaluation by a prospective transferee while in the presence of the prospective transferee.

(4)(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Attorney General may implement this subsection with regulations.

(B) Regulations promulgated under this paragraph--
(i) shall include a provision setting a maximum fee that may be charged by licensees for services provided in accordance with paragraph (1); and

(ii) shall include a provision requiring a record of transaction of any transfer that occurred between an unlicensed transferor and unlicensed transferee accordance with paragraph (1).'.

(b) Technical and Conforming Amendments-
(1) SECTION 922- Section 922(y)(2) of title 18, United States Code, is amended, in the matter preceding subparagraph (A), by striking `, (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II)' and inserting `and (g)(5)(B)'.
(2) SECTION 925A- Section 925A of title 18, United States Code, is amended, in the matter preceding paragraph (1), by striking `subsection (s) or (t) of section 922' and inserting `section 922(s)'.
(3) NICS IMPROVEMENT AMENDMENTS ACT- Section 103(f) of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 is amended by striking `section 922(t)' and inserting `section 922(s)'.
(4) CONSOLIDATED AND FURTHER CONTINUING APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2012- Section 511 of title V of division B of the Consolidated and Further Continuing Appropriations Act, 2012 (18 U.S.C. 922 note) is amended by striking `subsection 922(t)' and inserting `section 922(s)' each place it appears.

SEC. 123. LOST AND STOLEN REPORTING.

(a) In General- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end--

(aa) It shall be unlawful for any person who lawfully possesses or owns a firearm that has been shipped or transported in, or has been possessed in or affecting, interstate or foreign commerce, to fail to report the theft or loss of the firearm, within 24 hours after the person discovers the theft or loss, to the Attorney General and to the appropriate local authorities.

(b) Penalty- Section 924(a)(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking subparagraph (B) and inserting the following:
(B) knowingly violates subsection (a)(4), (f), (k), (q), or (aa) of section 922;'.

SEC. 124. EFFECTIVE DATE.

The amendments made by this title shall take effect 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act.
 

E6chevron

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
528
Location
Milwaukee Wisconsin
ATF has released an electronic Form 4473. I could not find the .pdf version on their website any more.

If you think I or any other half-thinking person will believe that nobody else will see or store these serial numbers, well your assumption strains the bounds of credulity.

We aren't all geniuses, but we aren't stupid either.

TFred

I commend you for speaking out for yourself and the other half-thinking persons.

The link in the page you referred to was faulty, Here is the ATF forms page: http://www.atf.gov/forms/firearms/index.html

This is the link to download the .pdf version: http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Here is the web page with the instuctions and the ATF e-Form 4473 application/program which runs locally on the PC or Mac at the FFL dealer after download.
http://www.atf.gov/applications/e4473/download/index.html This appllication prints out the form when completed.

-------------------

Grapeshot,

Thanks for the text of the Transfer section of the proposed bill. Right now, FACTS about this are hard to come by.
 
Last edited:

carracer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
1,108
Location
Nampa, Idaho, USA
Currently, at least in Idaho, face to face sales between in state legal residents may be conducted without FFL an BG checks. If the bill passes and my neighbor posts and ad in a local internet classifieds for his 1911 we cannot do a face to face as it would be an internet sale. we would have to go thru an FFL and BG check. If you post an ad in the local newspaper for your 1911 it would not be an internet sale, unless they unknowingly to you, also post it on their online classifieds. You then sell to someone and it is an internet sale. You didn't know it was posted online so you are now a felon.

This is a bad bill and needs to be stopped.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
In this bill if a felon has a firearm stolen he does not have to report it because it violates his 5th amendment rights. Yet if a LAC has a gun stolen and does not report it he becomes a felon.
 

Beretta92FSLady

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
5,264
Location
In My Coffee
Some Republicans are still STRUGGLING TO COMPREHEND that part about ".......SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. "

This Bill is not an infringement. This Bill, if/when it hits the Bench, will be Found Constitutional; as it should.

Not trying to start an argument: I have no issue with this Bill.
 
Last edited:

northstar65

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
64
Location
, ,
Just one point

Excuse my possible naivete but does this bill also apply to rifles & shotguns purchased either privately or thru a FFL ?
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
I commend you for speaking out for yourself and the other half-thinking persons.

The link in the page you referred to was faulty, Here is the ATF forms page: http://www.atf.gov/forms/firearms/index.html

This is the link to download the .pdf version: http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Here is the web page with the instuctions and the ATF e-Form 4473 application/program which runs locally on the PC or Mac at the FFL dealer after download.
http://www.atf.gov/applications/e4473/download/index.html This appllication prints out the form when completed.
The link I posted in my previous message points right to the ATF announcement of the new form. When I Googled [ATF 4473], the top link returned, the .pdf form directly on the ATF website, cannot be found. Try it yourself if you don't believe me.

The eForm that you download from the ATF is an .exe file. If you trust the government enough to download and run an executable program on your computer, be my guest. Ever hear of Stuxnet?

Am I paranoid? Maybe. But I'm not going to invite the US Government into my computer. They may very well be there already, but it's not because I put them there.

I suppose I am supposed to be insulted by your clever remark at the top... I guess I'm not smart enough to know for sure though... :p

TFred
 

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
This was a vote to prevent a filibuster before the bill even gets to the floor. This was NOT a vote on the actual bill, simply a vote for the bill to continue through the proper channel. While I am 100% against the bill and don't mind filibusters in certain situations (such as that whole issue with the POTUS being able to kill citizens with drones on US soil), I am not against this bill being beaten in a proper manner and the votes on the bill and amendments can be used to hold the politicians accountable in states/districts where the vote matters. Help us flush out the liars/turncoats with this bill that is still HIGHLY unlikely to pass the House.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Excuse my possible naivete but does this bill also apply to rifles & shotguns purchased either privately or thru a FFL ?

Short answer - Yes. See post #26

it shall be unlawful for any person who is not licensed under this chapter to transfer a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, unless a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer has first taken possession of the firearm for the purpose of complying with subsection (s). Upon taking possession of the firearm, the licensee shall comply with all requirements of this chapter as if the licensee were transferring the firearm from the licensee's inventory to the unlicensed transferee.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
"in connection with lawful hunting or sporting purposes"

I can't imagine any credible court allowing a law that treats one small subset of legal activity differently from all other legal activity.

These authors sure do know how to put the sugar in just the right places, however.

TFred
 

Beretta92FSLady

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
5,264
Location
In My Coffee
"in connection with lawful hunting or sporting purposes"

I can't imagine any credible court allowing a law that treats one small subset of legal activity differently from all other legal activity.

These authors sure do know how to put the sugar in just the right places, however.

TFred

If you're referring to self-defense as "other legal activities," self-defense isn't along the same lines as hunting or sporting purposes.
 
Top