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Thread: What does a traitor look like?

  1. #1
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    What does a traitor look like?

    So what does a traitor look like?

    That is a very good question.

    After all, a traitor is different than an enemy. An enemy declares himself and opposes you openly. But in order to become a traitor, someone first needs to enjoy your trust.

    Those of us in the gun rights community have plenty of enemies … people who have openly declared war on the Second Amendment and the Constitution. Heck … practically every Democrat in the country seems to have signed up for a frontal assault on gun owners.

    But to be betrayed by one of our own is not a common occurrence and when it happens, it never fails to hurt.

    Today, Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania betrayed gun owners. He betrayed us by caving in to pressure from Bloomberg and the Obama Administration and putting forward a supposed “compromise” bill with New York Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer and West Virginia Democratic Senator Joe Manchin.

    Read more at John Pierce’s Monachus Lex.
    Last edited by John Pierce; 04-10-2013 at 09:08 PM.

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    I know this wasn't your point, but why would anyone feel betrayed by a politician? The history is extensive and clear--government cannot be trusted. If any readers felt betrayed, they share the blame for trusting him in the first place.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Nothing new under the sun

    A couple thoughts from Mark Twain:

    Look at the tyranny of party -- at what is called party allegiance, party loyalty -- a snare invented by designing men for selfish purposes -- and which turns voters into chattles, slaves, rabbits, and all the while their masters, and they themselves are shouting rubbish about liberty, independence, freedom of opinion, freedom of speech, honestly unconscious of the fantastic contradiction; and forgetting or ignoring that their fathers and the churches shouted the same blasphemies a generation earlier when they were closing their doors against the hunted slave, beating his handful of humane defenders with Bible texts and billies, and pocketing the insults and licking the shoes of his Southern master.
    For in a Republic, who is “the country”? Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I know this wasn't your point, but why would anyone feel betrayed by a politician? The history is extensive and clear--government cannot be trusted. If any readers felt betrayed, they share the blame for trusting him in the first place.
    I was wondering this too, with all the posts about Republicans betraying us.......this isn't a republican/democrat issue...its a rights issue!
    And if we look at the history of the R party.....what surprises anyone?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Pierce View Post
    So what does a traitor look like?

    That is a very good question.

    After all, a traitor is different than an enemy. An enemy declares himself and opposes you openly. But in order to become a traitor, someone first needs to enjoy your trust.

    Those of us in the gun rights community have plenty of enemies … people who have openly declared war on the Second Amendment and the Constitution. Heck … practically every Democrat in the country seems to have signed up for a frontal assault on gun owners.

    But to be betrayed by one of our own is not a common occurrence and when it happens, it never fails to hurt.

    Today, Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania betrayed gun owners. He betrayed us by caving in to pressure from Bloomberg and the Obama Administration and putting forward a supposed “compromise” bill with New York Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer and West Virginia Democratic Senator Joe Manchin.

    Read more at John Pierce’s Monachus Lex.
    I feel he is an open combatant against our constitution and of freedom.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  6. #6
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Compromise. A "four letter word."
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Almost everyone is a terrorist in the gov't eyes .... so why shouldn't politicians be included ! The more, the merrier!

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    Forget about the "R" or "D" labels. They are either for asmall government with maximum liberty and personal responsibility for ALL or a DAMNED PROGRESSIVE!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    I got off the phone with the NRA today and they are claiming they will not downgrade those 16 senators, because it was not "positive if they would vote for the bill", they are saying they are just wanting to get votes on record.

    That is a stupid idea.

    For those claiming they are only doing this to out the yes voters is BS. If you don't support these bills you do not allow them to even get anywhere near that floor period. IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT THE BILL DON'T GIVE IT A CHANCE TO PASS PERIOD.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  10. #10
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    I got off the phone with the NRA today and they are claiming they will not downgrade those 16 senators, because it was not "positive if they would vote for the bill", they are saying they are just wanting to get votes on record.

    That is a stupid idea.

    For those claiming they are only doing this to out the yes voters is BS. If you don't support these bills you do not allow them to even get anywhere near that floor period. IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT THE BILL DON'T GIVE IT A CHANCE TO PASS PERIOD.
    What are you afraid of? Afraid it will be debated, and citizens will get to see exactly where all the Representatives stand? If I were you, I would me scared as well; considering this potential Bill has at best, a few dull teeth in it.--you know exactly how it will be viewed though, the Pro-Firearm community, Pro-Second Amendment community trying to stamp it out.

    I look forward to the Bill being voted on down the road; and I look forward to the House stopping it. Republicans will only have themselves to blame next year...mark my words. Don't listen to me though, I didn't see Obama being reelected
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    What are you afraid of? Afraid it will be debated, and citizens will get to see exactly where all the Representatives stand? If I were you, I would me scared as well; considering this potential Bill has at best, a few dull teeth in it.--you know exactly how it will be viewed though, the Pro-Firearm community, Pro-Second Amendment community trying to stamp it out.

    I look forward to the Bill being voted on down the road; and I look forward to the House stopping it. Republicans will only have themselves to blame next year...mark my words. Don't listen to me though, I didn't see Obama being reelected
    Well simply, there should be no debate on this. The constitution is extremely clear on our rights to the second amendment. Also just like last time when the passed the 94 AWB ban it was a attachment to another bill when they could not pass it on its own. They are adding a magazine ban and the AWB as attached to this bill. The bill should be killed before it ever got off the ground, we now already know who supports this. A person who is sitting on the fence on this is threat enough to our rights to vote them out, again there should not be any question on it. People who are putting faith in the republicans as a for sure way to stop this are playing with fire. I guess you all seem to forget the very long list of republicans comprising for democrats and their lack of spine.
    Last edited by zack991; 04-11-2013 at 10:24 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  12. #12
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    Well simply, there should be no debate on this. The constitution is extremely clear on our rights to the second amendment. Also just like last time when the passed the 94 AWB ban it was a attachment to another bill when they could not pass it on its own. They are adding a magazine ban and the AWB as attached to this bill. The bill should be killed before it ever got off the ground, we now already know who supports this. A person who is sitting on the fence on this is threat enough to our rights to vote them out, again there should not be any question on it. People who are putting faith in the republicans as a for sure way to stop this are playing with fire. I guess you all seem to forget the very long list of republicans comprising for democrats and their lack of spine.

    No, the Constitution is not extremely clear on the Second Amendment.


    We aren't talking about an AWB; we're talking about UBC.


    I don't pray, but I may take it up the next couple weeks to see if God comes thru on getting this bill to the floor in both the House, and Senate.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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