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Thread: Federal GFSZ question for you lawl-savvy types...

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    Federal GFSZ question for you lawl-savvy types...

    Oops, supposed to say "Law-Savvy"...

    So if possessing a firearm within 1000 feet of school property is illegal, how can you "legally" drive on Highway D into the Busch Wildlife conservation area? The shooting range is a few miles up the road, but if you're coming from 40, you drive right past a school. Was randomly thinking about that the other day, and just remembered to come here and inquire...


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    Last edited by kellogg2185; 04-10-2013 at 09:45 PM.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    you can't, You've been reported to the ATF, they have a task force keeping watch outside your house 24/7, if you hear the door come off the hinges it's a no-knock raid

    what's up with you lawbreakers who want to kill our children by going to the shooting range?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    you can't, You've been reported to the ATF, they have a task force keeping watch outside your house 24/7, if you hear the door come off the hinges it's a no-knock raid

    what's up with you lawbreakers who want to kill our children by going to the shooting range?
    All cynicism aside, "you can't" is probably the correct answer. There is an exemption to the law if you hold a "license to carry firearms" issued by the state in which the school zone sits, and if that license requires a background check before they issue it. I don't know if Missouri has such a license. Virginia does not. We have a "get out of jail free card, even if you carry concealed", but it is not a license to carry a firearm.

    This law does NOT exempt off-duty LEOs, so if your off-duty LEO is carrying, but does not have the state issued license to carry, they are just as guilty as anyone else. This is easily one of the most heinous laws on the books of the US Government.

    We talk about this over on the Virginia board quite a bit, you might want to snoop around over there a bit.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 04-10-2013 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Spell much?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    You can transport through a zone with the firearm unloaded and locked in a container. If you drive through with a loaded firearm you are technically violating a unconstitutional legislation. There does not seem to be a extreme effort to enforce this statute at this time in history, but you have to decide what is best for you. My suggestion if you want to carry en route, and not break the GFSZA get a cap and ball for driving through zones. Keep your firearm locked up in the trunk unloaded until you get to the range.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    All cynicism aside, "you can't" is probably the correct answer. There is an exemption to the law if you hold a "license to carry firearms" issued by the state in which the school zone sits, and if that license requires a background check before they issue it. I don't know if Missouri has such a license. Virginia does not. We have a "get out of jail free card, even if you carry concealed", but it is not a license to carry a firearm.

    This law does NOT exempt off-duty LEOs, so if your off-duty LEO is carrying, but does not have the state issued license to carry, they are just as guilty as anyone else. This is easily one of the most heinous laws on the books of the US Government.

    We talk about this over on the Virginia board quite a bit, you might want to snoop around over there a bit.

    TFred
    Actually I think that being authorized by statute to carry off duty exempts a police officer.

    also the background check thing has been ruled on by the 11th Circuit, in United States v. Tait someone assaulted a student in an alabama school, the assailant, Gary Tait, had an Alabama permit, he was convicted in federal court for violating the GFSZA under the philosophy that the alabama statutes didn't require a background check to verify he was qualified under the GCA. The 11 circuit ruled it didn't matter, the Alabama sheriff only had to ensure someone was qualified under STATE law to recieve the license.

    some other tidbits

    Montana passed this law after GFSZA was signed

    45-8-360. Establishment of individual licensure. In consideration that the right to keep and bear arms is protected and reserved to the people in Article II, section 12, of the Montana constitution, a person who has not been convicted of a violent, felony crime and who is lawfully able to own or to possess a firearm under the Montana constitution is considered to be individually licensed and verified by the state of Montana within the meaning of the provisions regarding individual licensure and verification in the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act.
    I'm not aware of anyone who's ever been prosecuted for a gun alone.... it's always been used as a "tack on charge" to drug dealers or gang members or stuff like that.....

    seriously, if anyone has ever been prosecuted for possessing a firearm in a manner consistent with state law and convicted without any other criminal activity on the part of the defendent i've never seen it.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    gee, i guess i broke the Federal GFSZ law quite frequently throughout my life as have about a zillion other gun owners around the country by simply driving down the street. but let me tell ya, i'm not all broken up about it. as long as i am not actually on school property i will give this about as much concern as farting in public.

    then again, the way i read 571.030.3 it's a non-issue, by MO state law, as long as the firearm is lawfully possessed.

    but i have zero reason to enter a school, much less drive onto the grounds.
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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Federal GFSZ question for you lawl-savvy types...

    The law was struck down. Congress passed it again this time with a definition of what constitutes interstate commerce. The addition of the definition to the statute does not alter the determination by SCOTUS in regards to interstate commerce. So it is just a matter of time before SCOTUS will hear it again; although, it may be a while looking for a good case without subsequent additional criminal charges as the Feds only want to use the law as an anchor to discourage lawful carry within the zone.

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    Regular Member Boba Fett's Avatar
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    yeah...my property is completely surrounded by within-1000-feet of the school...lol This law doesn't hold much power in my car. Like Broondog I have no reason to actually go onto the school property.
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    i break the GFSZ every day, multiple times a day, just by driving to work. the law has bigger fish to fry, but legally they can get you on it.
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    If you have a MO CCW, it's a mute point.
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  11. #11
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    RSMo 571.030

    1. (10) Carries a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.

    2. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to the persons described in this subsection, regardless of whether such uses are reasonably associated with or are necessary to the fulfillment of such person's official duties except as otherwise provided in this subsection.....:

    (1) All state, county and municipal peace officers who have completed the training required by the police officer standards and training commission pursuant to sections 590.030 to 590.050 and who possess the duty and power of arrest for violation of the general criminal laws of the state or for violation of ordinances of counties or municipalities of the state, whether such officers are on or off duty, and whether such officers are within or outside of the law enforcement agency's jurisdiction, or all qualified retired peace officers, as defined in subsection 11 of this section, and who carry the identification defined in subsection 12 of this section, or any person summoned by such officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while actually engaged in assisting such officer;

    3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply ..... Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event or club event.
    No endorsement is required to carry on "school property."

    Couple of points to made here. If you are OC in a "park" and a school sanctioned event is also occurring in that "park" (jurisdiction dependent) you may run afoul of the law.....reality check, if you are in a "park" with a gun on your hip and a school event is going on I would expect you to be unlawfully assaulted by a cop. Cops will not be seen as not trying to protect the children.

    Driving by the school on D is not the same as "transporting a student to or from school" so technically you are in violation of the law.

    There is not a cop in this state, or a fed I suspect, that will stop you, if he knows you are armed, as soon as you cross within the 1000' zone. No cop wants to have the GFSZ act tossed by a uppity OCer who has a few large bags Benjamins laying around for just such a purpose.

    Drive with confidence.....just don't get pulled over until you are beyond the 1000' boundary.....just in case you "get" that one cop.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    If you have a MO CCW, it's a mute point.
    But only while you are in Missouri. The BATF claims that out-of-state permits are not sufficient to meet the exemption. As soon as you cross that line, as far as the BATF sees it (with regard to the GFSZA), you have no license to carry a firearm.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 04-12-2013 at 11:37 AM.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    But only while you are in Missouri. The BATF claims that out-of-state permits are not sufficient to meet the exemption. As soon as you cross that line, as far as the BATF sees it (with regard to the GFSZA), you have no license to carry a firearm.

    TFred
    Is the BATF the one who enforces the GFSZs?
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Is the BATF the one who enforces the GFSZs?
    Who knows. According to a letter written in 2002 (see letter on Wiki page here) it appears that at a minimum, they think they do.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Is the BATF the one who enforces the GFSZs?
    it doesn't matter, it is simply the law no matter who enforces it.

    i carry on a Virginia non-res so i actually break the law every day at least once.
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    Statistically, the GFSZ act created over an 800% increase in school shootings when compared to the 150 years prior to it.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Statistically, the GFSZ act created over an 800% increase in school shootings when compared to the 150 years prior to it.
    what? are you implying that GFSZ's don't work?

    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broondog View Post
    what? are you implying that GFSZ's don't work?

    If gun laws worked one would assume other laws would work as well and the government would make meth and crack illegal and instantly no more war on drugs would be required!!!

    The government is basically only good at ONE thing, stealing working folks money, generally speaking they pretty much suck at everything else.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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