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Thread: Open Carry without a CPL

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Open Carry without a CPL

    Open Carry w/out a CPL: by Yancer. Used with permission.

    A person without a CPL can legally open carry a pistol as long as the pistol they are carrying has been lawfully purchased in accordance with MCL 28.422 and is registered in their name and they are at least 18 years of age. Without a CPL you may NOT carry a firearm that belongs to and is registered to someone other than yourself.

    MCL 28.422(1) states that “except as otherwise provided in this act, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.”

    As the above cited law states a person may not carry or possess a firearm without obtaining it in accordance with that particular law. Therefore if you have obtained a firearm in accordance with MCL 28.422 by receiving a permit to purchase or by purchasing a firearm from a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer as the law dictates then you may lawfully open carry that pistol.

    There are many places you should be aware of where someone without a CPL may NOT possess a firearm, which includes open carry. The following is the list of prohibited places which is located in MCL 750.234d:

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre

    (e) A sports arena.

    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    It is very important that you pay attention to and understand what (h) in the above list is referring to. An establishment that is licensed by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission refers to any business that is licensed by the state of Michigan to sell alcohol. The key phrase here is sell alcohol, it does not matter if it is consumed on the premises, if they are licensed to sell alcohol (and regardless of if they do) you may not possess a firearm on the premises without a valid CPL. Premises include the parking area and surrounding property that the establishment is on. You can find out what businesses in your county are licensed by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission by going to the following website:

    http://www2.dleg.state.mi.us/llist/

    There is an exception to the above law, MCL 750.234d(2)(d):

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    If you do not have a CPL and you receive permission from the owner or agent of the owner (manager/supervisor) that you are allowed to carry while visiting their establishment then you would not be in violation of the above cited law and you can lawfully open carry at that establishment. We encourage and suggest that the permission is given in written form so you have physical evidence that you were granted permission.

    If a location that you are visiting is not listed or does not fall within the above law then you may lawfully open carry there regardless if you possess a CPL or not.

    In addition to knowing where you can and cannot go you will also need to know how to get there and back, the following will review how to transport a firearm without a CPL.

    Transportation without a CPL:

    A person without a CPL is prohibited under MCL 750.227(2) from possessing a firearm in the passenger compartment of a vehicle:

    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

    What that means is that you cannot carry a firearm in your vehicle, in Michigan your firearm is considered concealed upon entering a vehicle therefore without a concealed pistol license you would be in violation of the law.

    There is an exception for transporting a firearm however you need to be very diligent in making sure you are complying with all aspects of the law, it is very easy to slip and be facing felony charges for carrying a concealed weapon. Below will describe how you can transport your firearm safely and lawfully for open carry if you do not have a CPL.

    MCL 750.231a details how someone may lawfully transport a firearm:

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    To transport your pistol you are required to have the pistol unloaded and enclosed in a case that is designed for the storage of firearms and the encased pistol has to be in the trunk of the vehicle or if there is no trunk it has to be not easily accessible to the people in the vehicle. It would be suggested that if you do not have a trunk to have a case that you can lock or place a lock onto, if it ever were to come into question its always best to appear to be making every attempt to comply with the law. The pistol and magazine do NOT have to be separated as it is not a requirement under MCL 750.231a, the firearm has to be unloaded which means no magazine in the firearm and no round chambered. The magazine can be in the same container as the firearm itself as long as the magazine is not loaded into the magazine well while you are transporting.

    To ready your firearm for transportation here are the steps to follow:
    Walk to the back of the vehicle with your firearms case

    With both case and firearm completely outside of the vehicle find a spot to place your firearms case.

    Unholster your pistol and remove the magazine and any rounds that might be chambered.

    If you prefer you may place the round that was once chambered back into the magazine.

    Place both the completely unloaded pistol and the (which is allowed to be loaded) magazine in your firearms case.

    Place the firearm which is now located in your firearms case in the trunk of the vehicle and close the trunk.

    You are ready to transport.

    If you do NOT have a trunk place the encased and completely unloaded firearm at what is preferably the furthest most point in your vehicle where you or someone else will not be able to easily access it, if you have a lock on your firearms case secure the lock into the ‘locked’ state.

    When you arrive at the destination where you can lawfully open carry you will need to retrieve your firearm from the trunk for the vehicle, or if there is no trunk from the location you placed the encased firearm. To retrieve your firearm follow the above steps in the reverse order:

    Open the trunk (or locate your encased firearm)

    Take the encased firearm and yourself completely outside of the vehicle, to include the trunk space

    Open the case

    Load your firearm

    Holster

    Place the now empty container back into your trunk or vehicle if you have no trunk

    Open carry.

    When handling your firearm at your trunk please remember all safe firearm handling practices to avoid any unwanted accidents, the firearm is required to be handled out of necessity due to the current laws, only handle your firearm when necessary and always be safe.

    Cites:

    MCL 28.422: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-422
    MCL 750.234d: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-234d
    MCL 750.227: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-227
    MCL 750.231a http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-231a

    Also see Michigan State Police Update #86 for more information: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    thanks!
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Raggs;1924258]Open Carry w/out a CPL: by Yancer. Used with permission.

    A person without a CPL can legally open carry a pistol as long as the pistol they are carrying has been lawfully purchased in accordance with MCL 28.422 and is registered in their name and they are at least 18 years of age. Without a CPL you may NOT carry a firearm that belongs to and is registered to someone other than yourself.

    MCL 28.422(1) states that “except as otherwise provided in this act, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.”

    As the above cited law states a person may not carry or possess a firearm without obtaining it in accordance with that particular law. Therefore if you have obtained a firearm in accordance with MCL 28.422 by receiving a permit to purchase or by purchasing a firearm from a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer as the law dictates then you may lawfully open carry that pistol.

    So, here's a question....

    All but one of the side arms I own and have purchased in WA, AK, UT, etc... have been private sales and not registered with anyone, per the local laws in those states.... I will be visiting from out of state, so...how does that apply to the above if I bring one of my "unregistered" handguns to carry while I am visiting? (I have my WA CPL).
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Re: Open Carry without a CPL

    Your WA cpl is your licence to posses.

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    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

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    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
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    Open Carry without a CPL

    My wife and I are from Nevada (since I'm Active Duty, I have a NV resident permit via military orders), and my wife is curious as to whether she can OC without issues. The handgun she will carry is registered in her name here in NV, but I purchased the gun in my name. She has a registration card stating it is registered in her name for Nevada. Is she legal enough to carry openly? I will most likely be CCing.
    Last edited by DooFster; 06-07-2013 at 08:19 PM.
    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DooFster View Post
    My wife and I are from Nevada (since I'm Active Duty, I have a NV resident permit via military orders), and my wife is curious as to whether she can OC without issues. The handgun she will carry is registered in her name here in NV, but I purchased the gun in my name. She has a registration card stating it is registered in her name for Nevada. Is she legal enough to carry openly? I will most likely be CCing.
    Please review MCL 28.422. You should find your answer there.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
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    Open Carry without a CPL

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Please review MCL 28.422. You should find your answer there.
    I did but that doesn't answer the question. Does it apply if we are visiting?
    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DooFster View Post
    I did but that doesn't answer the question. Does it apply if we are visiting?
    You have a NV resident permit and your wife has a registration card. Your NV resident permit would be indication that you are licensed to carry a concealed pistol in NV. If your wife's registration card is needed to purchase, carry, and/ or transport a pistol, that would serve as her exemption to registering the pistol. In regards to Open Carry you both would then be exempt. If concealed carry comes into play, then you would be OK to conceal on your NV permit; your wife, unfortunately, would be unable to conceal carry. And, in Michigan, she would need to follow the transport law. (MCL 750.231a)

    The best resource for a clear overview of the law is this:

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf

    If you have any further questions, feel free to ask...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
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    Open Carry without a CPL

    I spoke with a desk sergeant at the Lakeview Post (since I'm familiar with the Lakeview Post and I lived in Howard City before enlisting) and she said my wife couldn't carry because she doesn't have a CPL
    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DooFster View Post
    I spoke with a desk sergeant at the Lakeview Post (since I'm familiar with the Lakeview Post and I lived in Howard City before enlisting) and she said my wife couldn't carry because she doesn't have a CPL
    The desk sergeant is correct IF you were referring to Concealed Carry. OC is different, please refer to MSP Update 86 linked in a previous post. But, I guess the real question is why you asked a cop?
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
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    Open Carry without a CPL

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    The desk sergeant is correct IF you were referring to Concealed Carry. OC is different, please refer to MSP Update 86 linked in a previous post. But, I guess the real question is why you asked a cop?
    I'm used to asking a cop. I specifically mentioned OC to her. She said "how ironic because we just arrested an out of state resident for doing it.
    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Open Carry without a CPL

    Asking a cop for advice on oc is like asking a wolf how one should secure their sheep at night....just saying you are most likely to get the answer the wolf wants & not the truth....
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    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Open Carry without a CPL

    @Doofster (nice name).
    If you are uncomfortable with your wife's ability to OC while in MI maybe she should just refrain from it. If you do decide to both carry - be very careful about her & cars. If she is OCing before she gets in or even touches the car you as a CPL holder should take control of her pistol and get in the car. Then she will be legal to be in the car with you while driving to point A & B. If you are going to a store that sells alcohol, again you must have her pistol, as she cannot without a CPL or equivalent. MI gun law is very confusing to those from the state let alone those from outside of MI. Good luck and stay safe.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 06-08-2013 at 01:07 PM.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  15. #15
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Open Carry without a CPL

    Good advice...the legality of your wife carrying is not necessarily the question. If you expect an issue, do as you see fit.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  16. #16
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I know it's kind of obvious but I don't think he mentioned school property being illegal without a CPL.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kc5...e=mcl-750-237a
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
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